Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I believe your words were, “Trailers are ads. Period.” So that should have been, “They are 15 second ads BEFORE the content starts.” And they can not be skipped.

How long is the FBI Warning on discs which you can't skip?

[Steedeel]

“This one time, at band camp”

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by t-mel

Different news. My link is saying "serial churners" have increased since 2019. I'm not sure what the differences between these classifications are, though.

Same news just dressed up differently. Churn has been an issue for streaming services for years.

Go Ahead and Cancel That Streaming Service: Many of You Will Be Back in a Year — Study

https://www.indiewire.com/news/analy...is-1234919120/

From the previous discussion you must think this is exactly the same as ads in the middle of what you are watching.

Are you that obtuse? I said: They are 15 second trailers BEFORE the content starts.

Go see an eye doctor - you can't read!

[Lee A Stewart]

[t-mel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Same news just dressed up differently. Churn has been an issue for streaming services for years.

Go Ahead and Cancel That Streaming Service: Many of You Will Be Back in a Year — Study

https://www.indiewire.com/news/analy...is-1234919120/



Are you that obtuse? I said: They are 15 second trailers BEFORE the content starts.

Go see an eye doctor - you can't read!

It's not the same news. One is saying churn is rising, i.e. the problem is getting worse. And it's not that people leave and don't come back that is the problem, but if they drop in and out they are spending less overall. The churn rates puts a limit on the total subscriber rate at any one time.

Yes I don't believe 15 second trailers at the start of your film is the same as an ad in the middle of it, but you for some reason were so focused on people admitting discs have ads without any context attached to it. No one said they weren't ads, but they said they weren't equivalent to most ads you get on streaming services.

I use a region free X700 as a 4k player. Not the best. My aim is to get one of these bad boys: https://www.tps.uk.com/?tab_name=Pan...&choice_type=1

UOP is a mechanism which allows DVD publishers to restrict the possible user activity during DVD video playback. This can include restrictions like prohibition from skipping commercials, turning off subtitles, or pausing video, etc. With UOP deactivation UOP processing on the device is completely deactivated and you regain full control because the prohibitions are no longer applied.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

How long is the FBI Warning on discs which you can't skip?

Haven't had that problem for sometime now, for ISO I am presented with Play With Menu - Yes or No, I select No and content plays. If select Yes then it is just like the disc. For MKV, when I select a title it starts playing.

In my setup it is sort of like being on MA or Vudu, only the selecting method is superior and of course it is the same quality as though I were playing my disc.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Haven't had that problem for sometime now, for ISO I am presented with Play With Menu - Yes or No, I select No and content plays. If select Yes then it is just like the disc. For MKV, when I select a title it starts playing.

In my setup it is sort of like being on MA or Vudu, only the selecting method is superior and of course it is the same quality as though I were playing my disc.

How about the 100 million+ USA households that use a disc player? Can they do what you do? I think not.

[bhampton]

I just put the Meg 2 UHD disc in to check the framing for tonights movie.

I instantly had a menu and "play" option which defaulted to the ATMOS track and had only the rating info screen before playback just like you would see at a theater AFTER ALL the ads and trailers and trivia slides and so on.

If someone can't navigate a disc player then, yeah ... they don't deserve a disc player. The best results may require someone with a brain at the controls.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Last year in No. America alone, EST sales were $2.5 billion. Are the studios going to jeopardize that kind of money?

The studios most likely are not going to pull down content from EST services "because it's Tuesday" (aka for no reason at all).

That being said, things happen. Services are bought and sold. Studios (and/or their owned content) is bought and sold. Rights change hands. Issues can arise that we don't see coming.

While we are talking about EST here and not subscription streaming, to make a comparison, when studios like Disney and WB started up their own streaming services, many largely assumed that once they put the content that they own up on the service, it would NEVER come down for any reason. Disney even touted this by saying "the vault is open" when they launched Disney+ (and yes, traditionally "the vault" referred to their classics animated films that they would release on physical media for a limited time every few years, but the overall point that they were making was that everything would be perpetually available). And since then, in a relatively short time, we've seen things come along like content being taken down that wasn't getting a lot of views (but at least some people were watching and enjoying) for tax write off purposes... shows being taken down that aren't getting much in the way of views because they have to pay out residuals for those shows just sitting on the service regardless of how much they are being watched, and other issues like that.

Most of us, including myself, didn't see those specific issues coming... but I was very skeptical about this promise of all of their content being available on their respective services in perpetuity, and it didn't take long for me to be proven right on that.


So getting back to EST, while content being "purchased" (aka licensed / extended-rentals) is handled differently and doesn't face the exact same issues as content on streaming services like Netflix, Disney+, Max, etc., it can still be impacted in various ways. Streaming services have been sold with some content being impacted. How major those specific titles were, or how many were impacted, really doesn't matter in terms of the overall point. If anyone bought them and enjoyed them, then that is a problem.

Transfers for movies have been changed out. In some instances it is an improvement, and in those cases, it is a benefit without having to rebuy the title. But in others, a new remaster may have been heavily botched with DNR and other processing techniques. This has happened with some titles.

There are a myriad of potential issues that can occur, and some that we likely don't see coming yet (similar to how many were surprised by shows being taken off of streaming services and taken as a tax write-off).

The bottom line is the fact that in the fine print of the EULAs that everybody clicks on and hardly anybody reads (and even if we do read them, it's not like the terms are negotiable, so it's a moot point if someone intends to use the services regardless) basically state that access can be removed at any time for any reason.

While this is an extreme comparison for the sake of illustrating the point, from a certain perspective, it's like having someone perpetually pointing a loaded gun at my head, having it stated in some kind of fine print of a legally binding agreement that they can shoot me at any time for any reason... but that I shouldn't worry, I should trust their non-legally binding words and vague statements that they will "never actually" pull the trigger.

Well excuse me if I don't exactly trust that arrangement. Frankly there should be something legally binding that guarantees the customer access to the content they are buying (especially if these services insist on using wording like buy and purchase instead of lease and rent). Even then, I would be skeptical because if a service simply goes out of business or something, I'm not sure how such a law could be enforced. But at least it would be a step in the right direction.

By contrast, by DVDs, Blu-Rays, 4K discs, etc.... it doesn't matter how mainstream or niche the title is. It doesn't matter if it is still currently available or been out of print for years. It doesn't matter if the retailer (be it an online retailer or physical B&M retailer) is still in business now. I can grab that disc and watch it anytime that I want.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well excuse me if I don't exactly trust that arrangement. Frankly there should be something legally binding that guarantees the customer access to the content they are buying (especially if these services insist on using wording like buy and purchase instead of lease and rent). Even then, I would be skeptical because if a service simply goes out of business or something, I'm not sure how such a law could be enforced. But at least it would be a step in the right direction.

A law like that would never get widespread support, nor should it. No company should have to support a product forever. But I agree that there should be laws preventing them from using the terms "buy" and "purchase" with anything that requires ongoing support.

That's why physical media will always be superior: it doesn't require any ongoing support to function.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

A law like that would never get widespread support, nor should it. No company should have to support a product forever. But I agree that there should be laws preventing them from using the terms "buy" and "purchase" with anything that requires ongoing support.

That's why physical media will always be superior: it doesn't require any ongoing support to function.

I do agree to an extent that the company should not necessarily have to support a product forever. But that being said, I do think there needs to be contingency plans to account for that (allowing some means to legally access paid for content independently of the studios and services) if they all want digital distribution to completely take over and replace physical media.

I have no idea what the answer to this would be, and there likely isn't any kind of all perfect answer. And even if there was, getting everyone on board with it would likely never work.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I do agree to an extent that the company should not necessarily have to support a product forever. But that being said, I do think there needs to be contingency plans to account for that (allowing some means to legally access paid for content independently of the studios and services) if they all want digital distribution to completely take over and replace physical media.

I have no idea what the answer to this would be, and there likely isn't any kind of all perfect answer. And even if there was, getting everyone on board with it would likely never work.

The best solution would be legally defined abandonware. If there are no official means of buying or renting a title it should be legal to share it.

[cheez avenger]

Apple raises prices on some subscription services including Apple TV+

Apple (AAPL) is raising the prices of some of its subscription services, including its streaming platform Apple TV+, in the US and select international markets beginning Wednesday.

The company announced the changes on its website, which revealed Apple TV+ will now cost $9.99, up from the prior $6.99. Apple TV+ originally cost $4.99 when it first launched in November 2019.

Apple Arcade and Apple News+ will each go up by $2 and $3, respectively, to $6.99 and $12.99.

As a result of the changes, Apple One, which bundles up to six Apple subscriptions for one monthly price, also saw its tiered prices increase.

The individual plan will now cost $19.95 a month, up from $16.99, while the family plan will be $25.95 — up from the prior $22.95. The premier plan went up by $5 to a new monthly price of $37.95.

Existing subscribers will see these price increases 30 days later, on their next renewal date.

Apple raised the prices on a slew of its subscription services last year, hiking the monthly costs of Apple TV+, Apple One, and Apple Music. Wednesday's announcement did not include price hikes to Apple Music or its fitness subscription plans.

"We are focused on delivering the best experiences possible for our customers by consistently adding high-quality entertainment, content, and innovative features to our services," Apple said in a statement provided to Yahoo Finance.

Apple reported strong services revenue in its latest quarter with sales up $21.2 billion, an increase of more than 8% year over year. The company's services segment includes businesses like Apple TV+, along with the App Store and Apple Music.

Apple does not report separate breakouts of its services components, nor does it reveal subscriber figures for Apple TV+; however, the company has consistently reiterated the importance of services — like streaming — to its future.

"Our customers are more engaged as we have more transacting accounts and paid accounts on the ecosystem," Apple CFO Luca Maestri said on the latest earnings call in August. "The subscriptions business is very healthy with growth of 150 million paid subscriptions just in the last 12 months. It's almost double to what we had 3 years ago."

Streaming prices have ballooned across the board as profitability becomes top of mind for the industry.

This year alone, Warner Bros. Discovery (WBD), Comcast's Peacock, Disney's Disney+ and Hulu (DIS), Alphabet's YouTube TV (GOOGL), and Netflix (NFLX) tiers have hiked prices.

Added up, the cost of these services now rivals the dreaded cable TV bundle of years past — the very thing that streaming set out to undo.

Consumers are taking notice, with subscribers canceling more of their plans to combat rising costs. According to a new report from Antenna, US subscribers are canceling streaming services at record rates with 6% of overall subscribers canceling plans in September — the highest recorded rate.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple...155224791.html

[t-mel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The best solution would be legally defined abandonware. If there are no official means of buying or renting a title it should be legal to share it.

But if someone were to buy a film on a digital service and it goes bust, that doesn't mean it's abandonware, just that service does not host it any more. Letting users download it would be one solution but the studios seem to be against that. At least bandcamp you can download any purchases locally.

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

Apple raises prices on some subscription services including Apple TV+

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple...155224791.html

The Scorsese tax.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The best solution would be legally defined abandonware. If there are no official means of buying or renting a title it should be legal to share it.

Shared things may not be full quality.

I like the go buy the disc solution to this problem. Still works for me.

[punisher]

Iso's, MKV's and File backups give you full quality. The last two are playable perfectly on an OPPO 203..the mkv's play flawless on a simple LG UBK 90

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by punisher

Iso's, MKV's and File backups give you full quality. The last two are playable perfectly on an OPPO 203..the mkv's play flawless on a simple LG UBK 90

MKV with immersive audio on the 203 is a PITA or does not play. Never tried Folder play on the 203. Dune, Zappiti and Zidoo do all 3 (ISO, MKV and Folder)

[whipnet]

The question of physical vs. digital to me is becoming more and more moot. I own every past movie I want to own, and now there are VERY few movies that come out that are worth purchasing. Hollow-wood puts out mega-garbage for the most part.

*

[t-mel]

Originally Posted by whipnet

The question of physical vs. digital to me is becoming more and more moot. I own every past movie I want to own, and now there are VERY few movies that come out that are worth purchasing. Hollow-wood puts out mega-garbage for the most part.

*

Every year has loads of good films. Have you really mined everything that was good in the past, even if there were nothing new being made?