Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

That would be nice as the quality for the moment is terrible.

That YouTuber appears to be just a layman trying to talk technical. Streaming video is CBR. He kept mentioning video peak bit rates which just shows he does not understand what he is talking about.

Apple HUD shows only one video parameter and that is average bitrate video. The 7th line states: indicated bitrate peak and average. That is the incoming bitrate in terms of peak and average values. The incoming bitrate contains audio, video, error correction, subtitles and other metadata.

I have checked Apples HUD video bitrate against Amazon Prime and Netflix and they match.

Placed a request with Apple to change the wording from “indicated bitrate peak” to “incoming bitrate peak” because it confuses layman.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

well it has and IMO it will reach Disc Quality soon.

Well your opinions do not dictate facts.

And when it comes to who's opinion/guesses/estimations I trust and do not trust...

Let's just say that if given the choice between trusting your opinion or the opinion of an uneducated, mentally challenged giraffe, I would go with the giraffe.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well your opinions do not dictate facts.

And when it comes to who's opinion/guesses/estimations I trust and do not trust...

Let's just say that if given the choice between trusting your opinion or the opinion of an uneducated, mentally challenged giraffe, I would go with the giraffe.

I agree. What incentive is there for them to raise the quality beyond what is currently offered? Most people don't seem bothered by the quality and care more about what content is available over anything else.

Just my observation, but people seem to care more about quantity than quality. My sister/BIL just bought a big new 65" 4K TV. I can't remember what brand or model they have but it looks pretty nice. They have maybe one or two movies on Blu-ray that I gave them because I had doubles. They never watch them anymore and just stream them. When I asked if they care about the atrocious quality, they said they really don't notice. It really shows me your common viewer cares more about convenience than anything.

I think what could benefit streaming is to have less fragmentation. Go back to having Netflix, HBO Max and Disney+ and make everything available there. If the prices were reasonable, you could get more people onto streaming services.

Me? I'll keep buying Blu-rays (and sometimes 4K Blu-rays) as long as they keep making them. To me, the quality is better. And the thing that really drives it home for me is real ownership. I spent a lot of money on my CC Wong Kar Wai box set. These are not going to suddenly disappear when the studio removes the rights.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys keep saying that Streaming will never get better, well it has and IMO it will reach Disc Quality soon. Here is Jaremy Pyle giving some Streaming Bitrate information, with Average 25Mbps and Peaks in the 30Mbps.

For Quality Streaming you need Fiber, Hardwire, and High End Equipment with a Fast, Solid Processor!

Movie Streaming Bit Rate Quality Face-Off | Is Streaming Getting Better? | 10 Services Compared - YouTube

I actually watched that video yesterday. For once you are correct with your information, but 30mbps peak is still woefully behind disc. He even said AppleTV+ would peak around 42mbps if I remember correctly. But again, that puts it well behind disc in the video department and can't even come close to the audio on discs.

That's why I'm a little surprised you shared it. It reinforces everything we have been saying about streaming.

EDIT:Judging by Wendell's expertise the results are even less favorable for streaming.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Streaming is all about being cheap, streaming quality is of little importance.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

The important thing with streamers, it must be cheap, A/V quality is of very little importance according to a recent survey (below).

That poster has some weird fascination with files being played from a server. IIRC his old Panasonic Blu-ray player will play certain file types from a server via UPnP (DLNA) and SMB.

[Show spoiler]

[t-mel]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Let's just say that if given the choice between trusting your opinion or the opinion of an uneducated, mentally challenged giraffe, I would go with the giraffe.

I think that's harsh. The point can be made without comments like this.

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I agree. What incentive is there for them to raise the quality beyond what is currently offered? Most people don't seem bothered by the quality and care more about what content is available over anything else.

Just my observation, but people seem to care more about quantity than quality. My sister/BIL just bought a big new 65" 4K TV. I can't remember what brand or model they have but it looks pretty nice. They have maybe one or two movies on Blu-ray that I gave them because I had doubles. They never watch them anymore and just stream them. When I asked if they care about the atrocious quality, they said they really don't notice. It really shows me your common viewer cares more about convenience than anything.

I think what could benefit streaming is to have less fragmentation. Go back to having Netflix, HBO Max and Disney+ and make everything available there. If the prices were reasonable, you could get more people onto streaming services.

Me? I'll keep buying Blu-rays (and sometimes 4K Blu-rays) as long as they keep making them. To me, the quality is better. And the thing that really drives it home for me is real ownership. I spent a lot of money on my CC Wong Kar Wai box set. These are not going to suddenly disappear when the studio removes the rights.

Yep, exactly. Lee and alchav want it both ways. The reason people moved to streaming is because of cost and convenience, to hell with quality. They got the audience like that, why would they then spend more to improve quality to attract a small percentage who would probably stick with discs anyway, especially when they are all losing money? I know I would, because buying digitally has shown again and again to not guarantee anything. My download speeds are insufficient anyway.

People compare it to lossless music but really the bandwidth that needs is a fraction of video. We are a long way off from UHD-quality streams.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Not sure just how many times I need to post about streaming quality but here goes again. The largest streamer in the world - Netflix and here is their numbers for the US for September; 3.4 Mbps . Many audio streams on disc exceed that number, saw some audio peaks > 12 Mbps.

In September 2020 Comcast was the leader at 3.8 Mbps. So 3 years later it is not as good as 3 years ago. Info from the link above.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by t-mel

I think that's harsh. The point can be made without comments like this.

To be fair, I didn't call him a mentally challenged giraffe. I just said that I would trust the opinion of one over his.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by t-mel

Yep, exactly. Lee and alchav want it both ways. The reason people moved to streaming is because of cost and convenience, to hell with quality. They got the audience like that, why would they then spend more to improve quality to attract a small percentage who would probably stick with discs anyway, especially when they are all losing money? I know I would, because buying digitally has shown again and again to not guarantee anything. My download speeds are insufficient anyway.

People compare it to lossless music but really the bandwidth that needs is a fraction of video. We are a long way off from UHD-quality streams.

I never said streaming has ANYTHING to do with quality. Never once. I really hate it when someone like you tries to put words in my mouth I didn't say.

Streaming is all about cheap, convenient, accessible content.

The public doesn't give a shit about quality. Never have, never will. Been that way for over 40 years. Everyone knows that - oh wait - you don't!.

[bhampton]

I just go with the rule of Papa Johns

Better ingredients, Better Pizza

Better Media Source, Better Presentation.



Edit - My posts without ads are available for only $3 extra/Month.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys keep saying that Streaming will never get better, well it has and IMO it will reach Disc Quality soon. Here is Jaremy Pyle giving some Streaming Bitrate information, with Average 25Mbps and Peaks in the 30Mbps.

For Quality Streaming you need Fiber, Hardwire, and High End Equipment with a Fast, Solid Processor!

Movie Streaming Bit Rate Quality Face-Off | Is Streaming Getting Better? | 10 Services Compared - YouTube

Some day who knows perhaps 4k streaming will surpass blu ray in quality…

But ya Apple does do better than the other streaming services because it’s less of a pyramid scheme than other vod services. They have other sources of revenue so even if people stop buying movies on vod services they still make money on apps , tablets and phones people stream the stuff on.

Meanwhile netflix got across the spiderverse which is great but they did not get it 4k which kind of tells you streaming companies priorities in terms of quality.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by veritas

Meanwhile netflix got across the spiderverse which is great but they did not get it 4k which kind of tells you streaming companies priorities in terms of quality.

I was sad when I noticed NF had Across the Spiderverse because I imagined people watching it while distracted and not paying any attention. Didn't even realize it isn't 4K and maybe doesn't have ATMOS. What a terrible injustice to the source material.

[cheez avenger]

Across the SPiderverse is in 4K DV/Atmos. Now if you don't subscribe to NF's highest tier, it will default to 1080p/5.1.

[Vilya]

I have a rather long update about what is happening with me placed behind spoilers for those that would like to know.

[Show spoiler]I had 10 appointments in October. It has been a draining ordeal and it explains my absence from this thread by itself. The most consequential of these appointments was the second cardiac MRI I had done on Oct. 16th. The results were dramatically worse.

One specific result will give you an idea of how bad things have become in just seven months: the T1 mapping of abnormal myocardium in the left ventricle. In March, 68% of that myocardium was abnormal. Now it is 92% abnormal. Basically, there is a LOT more amyloid in my heart. I am at high risk of a life-threatening cardiac event at any time.

Yesterday, I saw a transplant cardiologist. To my surprise, I was told that a heart transplant alone would not be enough. My doctors believe that I need a combined heart AND liver transplant.

A new heart would be amyloid free, but my liver with its faulty gene would just continue to make more damaging amyloid even with the medication that I am receiving. My current medication reduces amyloid production by about 80%.

It would take a very long time to damage a new heart to the degree that mine is now, but there is amyloid damage in other areas of my body and my current liver would just keep damaging those other areas even further, namely my autonomic nervous system and my gastrointestinal system. It could also eventually attack my kidneys, which so far have been spared. Thus, I need a new liver.

I am nowhere close to being placed on a transplant list; there is lot of exhaustive testing to be done to determine if I am a medically viable candidate. Every vital system must be tested anew one by one including a psychological evaluation. A candidate for transplant has to be 100% enthusiastic and committed to the arduous road ahead.

If I pass all of that, then there is what is called the “wallet biopsy” to see if I can pay for all of it. The surgery alone costs about $2.6 million and then there is a life time of anti-rejection immunosuppressant medications to take unerringly on time. I can not even be placed upon the transplant waiting list unless the finances are in place to pay for all of it, thus the reason why it is called a “wallet biopsy.”

I begin the testing regimen in St. Louis on November 30th with a Cardio Pulmonary Exercise Test (CPET), which is a treadmill stress test. I will stay the night and on the following morning, Dec. 1st, I will have a cardiac surgical procedure called a right heart catheterization, also known as a pulmonary artery catheterization, performed to measure the blood pressures inside my heart and my lungs. The procedure has risks. The procedure could cause me to be admitted to the hospital. Recovery from this procedure can take up to two weeks. There is a small chance that I won’t survive it.

If that is not enough, there is still more. It is likely that amyloid has now spread to my eyes. This manifests as seeing “floaters” in the field of vision. My left eye is affected far more than my right eye.

Amyloid fibers also like to deposit themselves in the vitreous of the eyes. The rate at which this happens can vary, but it eventually may result in blindness. It is untreatable and incurable even with a double transplant.

The liver produces transthyretin, a protein that distributes vitamin A and the hormone thyroxine. With my disease a genetic mutation causes transthyretin to misfold into amyloid fibrils instead. These amyloid fibrils then deposit into various organ tissues causing those organs to eventually fail.

However, the liver only produces 95% of the transthyretin in our bodies. The other 5% is made in the brain. It is this 5% made in the brain that is likely damaging my eyes. Due to the body’s blood brain barrier, no medication or treatment can reduce or stop this misfolding transthyretin from being made in the brain.

My stamina is much worse. Last month I fell twice when my legs just gave out on me. My legs often become heavy and numb like the feeling you get when you pedal a bike up a steep hill. I tire so easily. I spend 12 hours or more in bed most days.

Incidents of chest pain have increased both in frequency and intensity. It is always alarming when it happens and it can be hard to distinguish between genuine chest pain or just general anxiety.

I already have 7 appointments for November, so I won’t be here very much this month, either. With 10 doctors treating me, I am kept very busy to the limits of my diminished stamina. I miss all of you. I really do. As depressing as all of this news is, there is still hope. I make a point to remind myself of this often, so I am reminding all of my friends, too.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

The public doesn't give a shit about quality. Never have, never will.

Which is why we shouldn't care what the public wants. All of your posts are focused on what's popular.

The physical supporters in this thread are focused on what's best. We will continue to buy the best formats regardless of what the public thinks.

[bhampton]

Bought the Flash based on it going on sale,

Had no idea I would really enjoy it.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Bought the Flash based on it going on sale,

Had no idea I would really enjoy it.

The Flash seems like a prime candidate for Black Friday sales so I'll wait a bit longer.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have a rather long update

Warren Zevon said something like "enjoy every sandwich" and he inspired me.

Your enduring hope has also inspired me deeply. I strive to be in the moment, take nothing for granted, and make the best of it for myself and my family.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Let's just say that if given the choice between trusting your opinion or the opinion of an uneducated, mentally challenged giraffe, I would go with the giraffe.

Originally Posted by t-mel

I think that's harsh. The point can be made without comments like this.

Thanks t-mel I just consider the source. I don't know why he picked the Giraffe or that I was uneducated. Just because the Giraffe has a small head and brain doesn't mean they are not complex, new studies show different. As for education, my BS from San Jose State University is antiquate and probably far more than anything he has. They just like to put people down in order to feel superior!

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have a rather long update about what is happening with me placed behind spoilers for those that would like to know.

[Show spoiler]I had 10 appointments in October. It has been a draining ordeal and it explains my absence from this thread by itself. The most consequential of these appointments was the second cardiac MRI I had done on Oct. 16th. The results were dramatically worse.

One specific result will give you an idea of how bad things have become in just seven months: the T1 mapping of abnormal myocardium in the left ventricle. In March, 68% of that myocardium was abnormal. Now it is 92% abnormal. Basically, there is a LOT more amyloid in my heart. I am at high risk of a life-threatening cardiac event at any time.

Yesterday, I saw a transplant cardiologist. To my surprise, I was told that a heart transplant alone would not be enough. My doctors believe that I need a combined heart AND liver transplant.

A new heart would be amyloid free, but my liver with its faulty gene would just continue to make more damaging amyloid even with the medication that I am receiving. My current medication reduces amyloid production by about 80%.

It would take a very long time to damage a new heart to the degree that mine is now, but there is amyloid damage in other areas of my body and my current liver would just keep damaging those other areas even further, namely my autonomic nervous system and my gastrointestinal system. It could also eventually attack my kidneys, which so far have been spared. Thus, I need a new liver.

I am nowhere close to being placed on a transplant list; there is lot of exhaustive testing to be done to determine if I am a medically viable candidate. Every vital system must be tested anew one by one including a psychological evaluation. A candidate for transplant has to be 100% enthusiastic and committed to the arduous road ahead.

If I pass all of that, then there is what is called the “wallet biopsy” to see if I can pay for all of it. The surgery alone costs about $2.6 million and then there is a life time of anti-rejection immunosuppressant medications to take unerringly on time. I can not even be placed upon the transplant waiting list unless the finances are in place to pay for all of it, thus the reason why it is called a “wallet biopsy.”

I begin the testing regimen in St. Louis on November 30th with a Cardio Pulmonary Exercise Test (CPET), which is a treadmill stress test. I will stay the night and on the following morning, Dec. 1st, I will have a cardiac surgical procedure called a right heart catheterization, also known as a pulmonary artery catheterization, performed to measure the blood pressures inside my heart and my lungs. The procedure has risks. The procedure could cause me to be admitted to the hospital. Recovery from this procedure can take up to two weeks. There is a small chance that I won’t survive it.

If that is not enough, there is still more. It is likely that amyloid has now spread to my eyes. This manifests as seeing “floaters” in the field of vision. My left eye is affected far more than my right eye.

Amyloid fibers also like to deposit themselves in the vitreous of the eyes. The rate at which this happens can vary, but it eventually may result in blindness. It is untreatable and incurable even with a double transplant.

The liver produces transthyretin, a protein that distributes vitamin A and the hormone thyroxine. With my disease a genetic mutation causes transthyretin to misfold into amyloid fibrils instead. These amyloid fibrils then deposit into various organ tissues causing those organs to eventually fail.

However, the liver only produces 95% of the transthyretin in our bodies. The other 5% is made in the brain. It is this 5% made in the brain that is likely damaging my eyes. Due to the body’s blood brain barrier, no medication or treatment can reduce or stop this misfolding transthyretin from being made in the brain.

My stamina is much worse. Last month I fell twice when my legs just gave out on me. My legs often become heavy and numb like the feeling you get when you pedal a bike up a steep hill. I tire so easily. I spend 12 hours or more in bed most days.

Incidents of chest pain have increased both in frequency and intensity. It is always alarming when it happens and it can be hard to distinguish between genuine chest pain or just general anxiety.

I already have 7 appointments for November, so I won’t be here very much this month, either. With 10 doctors treating me, I am kept very busy to the limits of my diminished stamina. I miss all of you. I really do. As depressing as all of this news is, there is still hope. I make a point to remind myself of this often, so I am reminding all of my friends, too.

I am at a loss for words. You are such a strong presence within this thread, and contributing to the usual back and forth has lost some of its appeal to me at the moment knowing you are fighting this battle.