Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kaleidescape is not a streaming service; it is a download service. Not the same thing at all.

We have had the necessary internet infrastructure to stream at disc quality, even better, for many years, but it has not happened because the extra bandwidth necessary to deliver that level of quality costs far more than the streaming services care to pay. Combine that with the typical easily and already satisfied streaming customer and there is just no reason for the streaming services to offer anything better than what they do right now. No demand for it from the consumer and only more expense to deliver it prevent it from happening.

just to add there is also the cost to store that content. Because streaming is not dependable, Netflix has 4 streaming qualities just for 4k imagine how many copies it would need if it would reach all the way to what UHD BD can afford (100mbps)

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Expecting and getting to profitability are very different things. I’m far from convinced they will achieve that in 2024.

There are a few ways they can do that and most of them are negatives from the consumers pov. Increased subscription costs, removing legacy or underperforming properties, and the dreaded C word…commercials.

The streaming world also suffers from requiring constantly new & good content to keep those dollars flowing in so production costs will remain high. Older content just doesn’t attract eyes. On the other hand, think about how much money collectors spend on, “old” releases. The studios would be stupid to kill off this small, but profitable segment.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

The studios would be stupid to kill off this small, but profitable segment.

Never underestimate human stupidity. It can be found at every level of a company.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by apollo828

"According to Disney, the company is on track to reach profitability in its streaming business by the end of its current fiscal year, with the above-mentioned $300 million narrowing in losses in Q1 vs. Q4."

Will they make it in FY24? Who knows. But, that's capital expenditure for you. All the streaming services are like startups. They burn money at first, look for a path to profitability, and hope that they can make money hand over fist eventually. Netflix pulled it off. If Disney doesn't, they'll sell what they can, take the loss, and move on.


Pardon me for taking a recent story (Disney and Sony) and attempting to add some context via publicly available data that nobody ever reads. *rolls eyes* If you're upset that I've only now come to this thread, might I suggest a private Discord server or Telegram chat for you & the handful of regulars here?

Also, I'm not gloating. I'm being realistic. If I had zero use for discs, I wouldn't buy them, and I certainly wouldn't snark on their fans in a forum dedicated to said discs. (Well, snark on posters in general. There are a couple of people who spout the most unbelievable nonsense and refuse to change.)

Welcome to the thread. I didn't find anything that I would perceive to be gloating in your comments... but you should be aware that nobody in here is really looking for a discussion.
Like most places, this thread has devolved into a circle jerk for one point of view - physical media is king and streaming is responsible for all societal evils.Classic struggle of good vs evil, right vs wrong etc..
Posts trying to add nuance to the discussion are very threatening and will be met with hostility, insinuations, willful misrepresentation of your stated position and a general tone that you are not welcome here and would be better served in the "other" threads where they are "anti physical media" ( even though there has never been a person that is "anti physical media " anywhere lol...)

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Welcome to the thread. physical media is king and streaming is responsible for all societal evils.

The good thing is

Streaming makes my discs look and sound better.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

( even though there has never been a person that is "anti physical media " anywhere lol...)

Consider all of the quotes contained in the linked post, including behind the spoilers, and tell me with a straight face that the person quoted is not "anti physical media." He's been waiting for discs to die for at least a decade and clearly relishes the prospect.

He's far from the only one that feels this way, but he is possibly the most persistent.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=21641

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

this thread has devolved into a circle jerk for one point of view - physical media is king and streaming is responsible for all societal evils.

Actually, most of us here use both. Many of us have a clear preference, sure, but if we reviled streaming we would not have digital collections nor would we subscribe to streaming services.

I welcome opposing points of view. Few things bore me as much as an echo chamber.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Welcome to the thread. I didn't find anything that I would perceive to be gloating in your comments... but you should be aware that nobody in here is really looking for a discussion.
Like most places, this thread has devolved into a circle jerk for one point of view - physical media is king and streaming is responsible for all societal evils.Classic struggle of good vs evil, right vs wrong etc..
Posts trying to add nuance to the discussion are very threatening and will be met with hostility, insinuations, willful misrepresentation of your stated position and a general tone that you are not welcome here and would be better served in the "other" threads where they are "anti physical media" ( even though there has never been a person that is "anti physical media " anywhere lol...)

The only question was, why tell people here about the state of the disc market? We all know exactly what is happening. I just said it was naive to do so.

Your comments are way out of line by the way.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Like most places, this thread has devolved into a circle jerk for one point of view - physical media is king and streaming is responsible for all societal evils.Classic struggle of good vs evil, right vs wrong etc..

Some here believe me to be anti streaming even tho I posted this sometime back:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

For those with short memories, have the following IPTV accounts or club accounts and IPTV capable devices:

Amazon Prime
Britbox
Disney
Disney Club
Disney Movie Rewards
Disney+
Fandango
Flixster (defunct)
HBO Max
JustWatch
Google
Movies Anywhere
Netflix
Nvidia Shield
Paramount
Roku
Universal
Vudu

Mainly used for streaming:
Sony FMP-X10 ● $470 (sold for $120)
Sony BDP-S6700 ● $88.00
Sony UBP-X800/BM ● $268.00
Sony UBP-X1000ES ● $498.00

Streaming only:
Amazon Fire TV Cube ● $120
Apple TV 4K (2021) ● $192.13 + Mac Mini, keyboard & mouse $197.87 (total $390)
Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 ● $199.99 + FLIRC Receiver $23 + Inteset IReTV USB IR Receiver $24
Roku Ultra 2019 ● $83
(2) Chromecast Audio ● $35.00 each

For a total of $2,137 for hardware

The first page for the Apple TV, Shield and CX-A5100 AVP on my MX-980 remote. For anyone that has done similar graphics and programming will appreciate the amount of work needed to do this.

[Show spoiler]

In the process of programming for the new Tascam BD-MP4K UHD Blu-ray player. Some should like page 2.

[Show spoiler]

My hardware total now stands close to $2,700 because I have added a Roku Express and had to replace the Mac Mini because the old one would no longer update. I asked Apple to please include the HUD in the ATV4K firmware but never received a response.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Some here believe me to be anti streaming even tho I posted this sometime back:

You are so anti-streaming that you have even been known to give Roku Ultras as gifts.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by apollo828

In theory, this thread is about the future of home video. That's streaming, with perhaps a small backwater dedicated to some alternative form of distribution (optical, thumb drive, DRM-free downloads, whatever). That's the reality of the situation, no matter how often people may point out, say, vintage camera gear that only white collar professionals can buy and which requires specialized upkeep.

Again nothing new, us disc and tape* enthusiast have been, are and most likely will remain a very small part of global home entertainment revenue. Streaming is not the future, it is the here and now and has been for a good while now.

Digital video distribution (DirecTV) was with us several years before digital disc, streaming digital video via the internet goes back into the 90's. We had our main channel program on the internet in 1998 or 1999.

BTW, my first web browser was Mosaic V1.0, my web access was via CompuServe.

*LD, DVD, D-VHS D-Theater, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

Welcome to the thread. I didn't find anything that I would perceive to be gloating in your comments... but you should be aware that nobody in here is really looking for a discussion.

Thanks. I knew it going in. It's fine. There are always die-hards who assume anybody with a different point of view is wrong, no matter what, and will brazenly ignore or twist the points that are made. Among many others, the Kaleidescape twisting is just another example. Buffering files and encapsulating files in transport streams aren't rocket science-level challenges if they or others want to go down the streaming road.

Internet speeds aren't there, one might say? I mostly disagree. Starlink satellite service is available in damned near all of the U.S. and in many other parts of the world, and is typically able to handle Blu-ray-level streams with ease. UHD-BD-level streaming is technically possible for a growing number of people, with Starlink poised to consistently get up to that point sooner or later. There was a time when lossless audio streaming wasn't considered feasible. Now, it's trivial and offered by many different services, including 24/192 encodes. (Yes, lossless video won't be feasible for a long time, short of massive breakthroughs, but the transport speeds are arguably there for disc-level quality for most people, or will be soon.)

Discs don't impart some magic fairy dust on the bits placed on them. Toss in potential encoding improvements with VVC and the BDA seemingly in a moribund state, and the idea that discs will always be the kings of the quality hill, or even available outside of secondhand markets, becomes more questionable. If discs do go bye-bye, high-end A/V types will demand some sort of viable alternative anyway. If saying all that ruffles feathers, meh.

[Steedeel]

Lol at people STILL thinking quality is ever going to be a priority with streaming. It never has been and never will be. Improved internet is irrelevant. Netflix shaves their bit rate, it doesn’t add to it. The smaller the bit rate, the more savings are made.
The streaming market is saturated now, you aren’t going to get millions of new users if better quality is added, for 90% of the population, low bit rate HD is good enough anyway.

Audio is even worse compared to disc.

Oh, and if you ‘knew it going in’, whatever that means, one can presume you should have known we are all aware of the disc market and how the land lies, but……..you didn’t. (Apparently)

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Lol at people STILL thinking quality is ever going to be a priority with streaming. It never has been and never will be. Improved internet is irrelevant. Netflix shaves their bit rate, it doesn’t add to it. The smaller the bit rate, the more savings are made.
The streaming market is saturated now, you aren’t going to get millions of new users if better quality is added, for 90% of the population, low bit rate HD is good enough anyway.

Audio is even worse compared to disc.

Oh, and if you ‘knew it going in’, whatever that means, one can presume you should have known we are all aware of the disc market and how the land lies, but……..you didn’t. (Apparently)

Exactly this. Sure, streaming COULD achieve disc quality, but the streaming services have absolutely no incentive to do so, since the masses are more than satisfied with what they’re given now. Higher quality will always still be in demand, even if we’re in the minority at this point.

[Vilya]

The ability to deliver to higher quality streams has been with us for many years already. Even my tiny little village of 1300 people has access to 1 Gbps internet service. Lack of ability is not the problem; it's the lack of will on the part of the streaming services to utilize that internet bandwidth that is the issue.

Better codecs could be used to offer higher quality streams OR these new codecs could be used to just offer existing quality at even lower bandwidth costs. Which seems more likely given that only one streaming service is profitable? Improved quality or existing quality at lower costs to the streaming service provider? Considering that most streaming customers are already satisfied with what they're getting, where is the impetus for the streaming services to improve quality over pocketing the savings? There is none.

Netflix has not used its profits to improve A/V quality, either. They have, in fact, reduced their bitrates even further because they know that most of their customers won't notice or care.

If streaming quality were to improve, I will welcome it the same as everyone else because I do sometimes stream movies and TV shows. I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen, though.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Lol at people STILL thinking quality is ever going to be a priority with streaming. It never has been and never will be. Improved internet is irrelevant. Netflix shaves their bit rate, it doesn’t add to it. The smaller the bit rate, the more savings are made.
The streaming market is saturated now, you aren’t going to get millions of new users if better quality is added, for 90% of the population, low bit rate HD is good enough anyway.

Correct, the highest quality A/V is not the goal of the average home entertainment user, never has been and not likely to change.

Netflix for January 2024 - 3.2 Mbps. Data here.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Again nothing new, us disc and tape* enthusiast have been, are and most likely will remain a very small part of global home entertainment revenue. Streaming is not the future, it is the here and now and has been for a good while now.

Digital video distribution (DirecTV) was with us several years before digital disc, streaming digital video via the internet goes back into the 90's. We had our main channel program on the internet in 1998 or 1999.

BTW, my first web browser was Mosaic V1.0, my web access was via CompuServe.

*LD, DVD, D-VHS D-Theater, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray.

What's old is new again. Streaming is in its fourth decade; it's about as futuristic as vinyl records.

[Steedeel]

I remember one permanently banned member claiming streaming would be ahead of disc quality in ten years, that was back when I joined.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I remember one permanently banned member claiming streaming would be ahead of disc quality in ten years, that was back when I joined.

No different than those who insisted that discs would soon be dead...back in 2014. I guess it all depends upon how you define "soon."

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

No different than those who insisted that discs would soon be dead...back in 2014. I guess it all depends upon how you define "soon."

The funny thing is, if disc was declared dead tomorrow, I would still have enough new titles for the next three years, before I even start on repeat watches.