The Official Energy Speakers Thread

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

The reviews I read, more noteably the CNET one (Like I said before I like CNET reviews), don't really say the Sony 920 sounds like it strains, but they say it sounds like it strains COMPARED to the Yamaha in a direct comparison.

Overall though, the Sony 920 seems to get better ratings than the Yamaha 663, not because of sound qaulity, but because it does pretty much everything else better. I'm sure your receiver is a good one, and I am not disrespecting it.

And I'd really like to get into the power amps for my 6160 aka Rx 663, it's really the only thing I can afford to do to improve my system right now.

I think all mid-level receivers can benefit from an external amp, higher end receivers, not as much will be improved upon, imo. But there would still be some improvement... whether its noticeable or not...

[boomslang06]

is sub burn/break in really necessary? on my energy sub manual they recommend 50hrs.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

And I'd really like to get into the power amps for my 6160 aka Rx 663, it's really the only thing I can afford to do to improve my system right now.

I've visited your gallery and your HT looks fairly large but it's difficult to determin e from photos though. If it's larger than 20' X 15', I think multiple power amps is worth consideration.

One other way to improve the sound you get from movies, is to perhaps put those C-300s somewhere else, maybe in another room and use them for listening to music. I wouldn't myself use them as side surrounds which need to be about 2 feet above your head, on the side walls, and slightly behind the sweet spot where you sit. The ideal surround speakers permit you to hear them without knowing they are there type of effect. The C-300s as surrounds are too low and more level with your ears rather than being far enough above them. The experience I had with the C-200s on 42" high stands used as surrounds was that they tend to let you know that they are there and don't effectively disappear. I could hear them directly. I would think the same would happen using the C-300s which are really the tower version of the C-200s. The C-300s tend to disappear as L/R fronts, that is true, and so did the C-200s. However for me the C-200s seemed to beam the surround sound FX more. The C-R100s was the solution to that problem for me. I'm pretty sure the new connoisseur series bipole surrounds will work just as well.

The C-R100 bipoles added a new dimension to the sound. It's more of an expansive open quality like being there in the theater sound. The best way I can describe it.

Truely, the bipoles surrounds did as much to improving the theater sound quality as did adding external power amps. Each worked in a different way but both were well worth the cost.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by callas01

Dylan, I never notice that the Sony 920 strains. I have pushed my receiver with all types of audio. I have heard it in large rooms and medium rooms. It is a very good mid level receiver. I had The Matrix, U571, Live Free or Die Hard, Band of Brothers, blus at -5 db's just rocking my 14x20 living room. I have had CDs and music Blus doing the same and I cannot turn them up past -11 bd's or it becomes too loud. AND I LIKE THINGS LOUD. I experience 0 distrotion, and no strain in the reciever. I don't know what people are talking about. I think it is all just a biasness towards their particular Brand.

Also I see a lot of High End shops around me carrying Denon, Marantz and Sony ES models. Never do I see them with Onkyo. A few Pioneer Elites and High End Yamahas, but Mostly Denon and Sony ES.

My son has one of the newer Sony receivers. What I like about his is that you can individually set the crossover frequency for each channel individually, like the Onkyos and Denons. The V663 (6160) crossover is global, and sets the same xover frequency for all the channels. The dialogue from the center is very good, clear, and clean sounding. The overall sound from all the channels is a bit too bright, not overly, but not to my liking though. However that just could be his speakers.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

I've visited your gallery and your HT looks fairly large but it's difficult to determin e from photos though. If it's larger than 20' X 15', I think multiple power amps is worth consideration.

One other way to improve the sound you get from movies, is to perhaps put those C-300s somewhere else, maybe in another room and use them for listening to music. I wouldn't myself use them as side surrounds which need to be about 2 feet above your head, on the side walls, and slightly behind the sweet spot where you sit. The ideal surround speakers permit you to hear them without knowing they are there type of effect. The C-300s as surrounds are too low and more level with your ears rather than being far enough above them. The experience I had with the C-200s on 42" high stands used as surrounds was that they tend to let you know that they are there and don't effectively disappear. I could hear them directly. I would think the same would happen using the C-300s which are really the tower version of the C-200s. The C-300s tend to disappear as L/R fronts, that is true, and so did the C-200s. However for me the C-200s seemed to beam the surround sound FX more. The C-R100s was the solution to that problem for me. I'm pretty sure the new connoisseur series bipole surrounds will work just as well.

The C-R100 bipoles added a new dimension to the sound. It's more of an expansive open quality like being there in the theater sound. The best way I can describe it.

Truely, the bipoles surrounds did as much to improving the theater sound quality as did adding external power amps. Each worked in a different way but both were well worth the cost.

My room is actually only 14X15 as I stated once before. IT does look much bigger in the pics though.

And yeah, I know what the "ideal" placements for surrounds are. But right now it's either c-200s on their stands, or c-300s, and the c-300s sound better for surrounds at that height than c-200s do. Also, the c-300s actually disappear surprisingly well. When I had the 7.1 setup and the c-200s right to the sides I could identify the location of the c-200s by ear easily. But in a 5.1 setup, I like the surrounds back a little more, aimed towards the "sweetspot", and this location made the c-300s disappear very nicely. I was thinking about elevating the c-300s with something under them though, to further help them "disappear".

Wall mounted Bipoles as I also mentioned once before, I'm sure would be better for "disappearing", but I'd much rather stick with the c-300s which I'm very happpy with at the moment than use the bipoles from the new connoisseur series and lose my currently perfect timbre match. If I could find some old C-R100s for cheap I'd consider it though.

As far as the power amps, I actually want them more for 2 channel music than for HT. I'm very satisfied with my HT performance. Any upgrades I make is purely for music, but if the improvements crossover into HT land, then great! I want more power when I'm blasting tunes in 2 channel. I like to blast loud. REally loud!

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

My room is actually only 14X15 as I stated once before. IT does look much bigger in the pics though.

And yeah, I know what the "ideal" placements for surrounds are. But right now it's either c-200s on their stands, or c-300s, and the c-300s sound better for surrounds at that height than c-200s do. Also, the c-300s actually disappear surprisingly well. When I had the 7.1 setup and the c-200s right to the sides I could identify the location of the c-200s by ear easily. But in a 5.1 setup, I like the surrounds back a little more, aimed towards the "sweetspot", and this location made the c-300s disappear very nicely. I was thinking about elevating the c-300s with something under them though, to further help them "disappear".

Wall mounted Bipoles as I also mentioned once before, I'm sure would be better for "disappearing", but I'd much rather stick with the c-300s which I'm very happpy with at the moment than use the bipoles from the new connoisseur series and lose my currently perfect timbre match. If I could find some old C-R100s for cheap I'd consider it though.

As far as the power amps, I actually want them more for 2 channel music than for HT. I'm very satisfied with my HT performance. Any upgrades I make is purely for music, but if the improvements crossover into HT land, then great! I want more power when I'm blasting tunes in 2 channel. I like to blast loud. REally loud!

I think Audio Advisors still has some C-R100 in stock for 99$ US +S&H each. Dunno if that meets your budget but yeah I had hell of deal on them.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

My son has one of the newer Sony receivers. What I like about his is that you can individually set the crossover frequency for each channel individually, like the Onkyos and Denons. The V663 (6160) crossover is global, and sets the same xover frequency for all the channels. The dialogue from the center is very good, clear, and clean sounding. The overall sound from all the channels is a bit too bright, not overly, but not to my liking though. However that just could be his speakers.

I take it your son doesn't have energys..... Sonys are surprisingly neutral sounding... If anything they can appear more "digital" sounding as my dad calls it. He has a Sony 5200ES driving his B&Ws

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by callas01

I take it your son doesn't have energys..... Sonys are surprisingly neutral sounding... If anything they can appear more "digital" sounding as my dad calls it. He has a Sony 5200ES driving his B&Ws

If you are really taking it, I don't think you'll be disapointed as my friend has the 563 and does not sound bright at all, so definately the speakers in this case.
I have to say it's a bit disapointing that you can not adjusts the X-Over seperately as my HK also does it. Oh well it's still a nice receiver if you ever get your hands on a Rotel Amp!!!!

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

I think Audio Advisors still has some C-R100 in stock for 99$ US +S&H each. Dunno if that meets your budget but yeah I had hell of deal on them.

That will probalby end up being close to $300 CAD.

For under $100 CAD I'd make the purchase, but it's not worth more than that to me. I'm more interested in improving 2 channel music reproduction than HT. I'm satisfied with my HT performance. Maybe I will wall mount the c-200s in there up higher, or elevate the c-300s somehow, but it's not worth it to me to spend $300 on the bipoles. I'd rather spend that on a used power amp.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

If you are really taking it, I don't think you'll be disapointed as my friend has the 563 and does not sound bright at all, so definately the speakers in this case.
I have to say it's a bit disapointing that you can not adjusts the X-Over seperately as my HK also does it. Oh well it's still a nice receiver if you ever get your hands on a Rotel Amp!!!!

It's annoying not being able to adjust the X-over seperately, but all said and done, I'd probalby have everything crossing over at 60hz anyway in my current setup. Which is where it is now.

[arrt vandelay]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

It's annoying not being able to adjust the X-over seperately, but all said and done, I'd probalby have everything crossing over at 60hz anyway in my current setup. Which is where it is now.

you have a yamaha 663 right? i have the 765 and have the same issue. i'd love to be able to cross my fronts over just a tad lower than 80hz to squeeze some more bass out of them. i'm afraid of damaging my c-100s if i use a universal 60hz crossover point as they're rated only down to 55hz. one of these days i'll get another sub, but until then i'd love to get the c500s pumping out some more bass...

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by arrt vandelay

you have a yamaha 663 right? i have the 765 and have the same issue. i'd love to be able to cross my fronts over just a tad lower than 80hz to squeeze some more bass out of them. i'm afraid of damaging my c-100s if i use a universal 60hz crossover point as they're rated only down to 55hz. one of these days i'll get another sub, but until then i'd love to get the c500s pumping out some more bass...

Yeah, I have the HTR version of the v663. Exact same thing. All my speakers are rated down to 40hz +/- 3db or less except my Center channel. My c-c100 center is rated down to only 50hz, and the 60hz universal crossover sounds great on it and has done no damage. Energy specs seem to be pretty accurate compared to some other brands. If the c-100 is rated to have usable base at 55hz, you would probably be fine with a 60hz crossover. It would be better if you could cross over just those speakers a bit higher however, but in order to get the most out of your c-500s and make a smoother transition into the sub, I think a 60hz crossover would be fine. Hell I had my c-c50 center crossed over at 60hz before which is only rated down to 60hz +/- 3db and had no problems or issues at all. It's not optimal mind you but I felt it was a necessary trade off to get more bass out of my fronts and make the subwoofer sound more natural.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Cpt_Dylan_Hunt

It's annoying not being able to adjust the X-over seperately, but all said and done, I'd probalby have everything crossing over at 60hz anyway in my current setup. Which is where it is now.

Originally Posted by arrt vandelay

you have a yamaha 663 right? i have the 765 and have the same issue. i'd love to be able to cross my fronts over just a tad lower than 80hz to squeeze some more bass out of them. i'm afraid of damaging my c-100s if i use a universal 60hz crossover point as they're rated only down to 55hz. one of these days i'll get another sub, but until then i'd love to get the c500s pumping out some more bass...

Hi guys.

I don't think you'll damage the C-100s because I have applied a 30 Hz, 40 Hz, 50 Hz, and 60 Hz calibrated sine wave test tones to one. It survived. That was very torturous for the C-100 but the response below 60 Hz wasn't smooth at all. The 30 Hz tone was inaudible. In order to avoid a dip at the crossover frequency you need a speaker that can adequately handle about a third octave lower than the crossover point. That won't happen with the C-100 crossed over at 60 Hz.

Oddly enough, I did the same test for the C-R100. It is a sealed bipole design. It can, in theory from my testing, be crossed over at 60 Hz because the output down in the 40 to 50 Hz range was smooth, audible, and measurable at 1.0 meter with my spl meter for all the tones tested between 40 Hz and 60 Hz. In fact I could still hear an audible 30 Hz test tone, just barely, coming from the C-R100. So, I experimented with the 60 Hz vs 80 Hz crossovers for my system. In the end, the best choice was still 80 Hz. The bass was definitely more solid and far more robust using the 80 Hz crossover.

Subwoofers will usually be far better for reproducing bass at 80 Hz and below. Even though the C-500s have two 6.5 in woofers (ca. equal to a 10 in woofer), those are no match for the power handling capability and smoother bass that a good sub, like the PA 120 can deliver in the 60 Hz to 80 Hz. I would recommend the 80 Hz crossover for all Energy C-series speakers, and most all other tower speakers like the other common brands (not esoteric stuff like Thiele, or Tannoy's Westminster Royal). Let the PA 120 do the job it was meant to do. It does it much better. I've been there, done that. Try it if you want, but you really aren't gaining anything, and perhaps more apt to loose, using a 60 Hz crossover point with the C-series.

Edit: In summary put your C-500s where you get better imaging and widest sound stage. Let the sub handle the bass.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Subwoofers will usually be far better for reproducing bass at 80 Hz and below. Even though the C-500s have two 6.5 in woofers (ca. equal to a 10 in woofer), those are no match for the power handling capability and smoother bass that a good sub, like the PA 120 can deliver in the 60 Hz to 80 Hz. I would recommend the 80 Hz crossover for all Energy C-series speakers, and most all other tower speakers like the other common brands (not esoteric stuff like Thiele, or Tannoy's Westminster Royal). Let the PA 120 do the job it was meant to do. It does it much better. I've been there, done that. Try it if you want, but you really aren't gaining anything, and perhaps more apt to loose, using a 60 Hz crossover point with the C-series.

Edit: In summary put your C-500s where you get better imaging and widest sound stage. Let the sub handle the bass.

I disagree, I MUCH prefer the 60hz setting. Especially for music. The 80hz setting makes the subwoofer sound more like a subwoofer and less like the bass is comming from the speakers. At 60hz I can close my eyes and not even tell a subwoofer is in my room. Lots of bass yes, but it sounds like it's from the towers. Also, at 80hz during some kinds of heavy music where a guitar riff comes out of the left or right only speaker, it tends to sound wimpier with an 80hz crossover. It's a big difference to me, and the 80hz setting sounds much less natural.

80hz is the standard but I do not like it.

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

that a good sub, like the PA 120 can deliver in the 60 Hz to 80 Hz

If these are the correct specs for the PA 120, then my ESW v10 is at LEAST as good and I still much prefer the 60hz setting.

http://www.premieracoustic.com/buyno...red+Subwoofers

My sub is only a 10 inch but extends to 23hz vs 24hz, 300 watts rms vs 200 watts rms, and 1200 watts peak vs 650 peak.

[BigAl87]

Oh well I think you are both right 80hz is rule of thumb in Home theater for all speakers I even suggested that to one of our new Fellow Energy C-500 speakers owner (94_Stang) but I also like to ear the nice thump of the C-500 at 60hz when listening to music I think they do a great job music with the X-over set to 60hz, never really experience anything wrong with the sound and they are capable to go as low as 35 hz so 60hz is not even breaking a sweat for these puppies and also like feeling more sound coming from the towers then coming out of the sub when it comes to music.

I personally heard Thiel CS 3.7 and Martin Logan CLX, yes it's a whole new experience, sound is breathtaking, also cost repectively 15Gs and 25Gs but for me nothing comes close to Energy C-Series below 800$ a pair. Oh Yeah maybe Dali Concept 8 for music as Callas mentioned but I'll have to see it for myself hehe I beleive they are a bit more then 1grand

[Cpt_Dylan_Hunt]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Oh well I think you are both right 80hz is rule of thumb in Home theater for all speakers I even suggested that to one of our new Fellow Energy C-500 speakers owner (94_Stang) but I also like to ear the nice thump of the C-500 at 60hz when listening to music I think they do a great job music with the X-over set to 60hz, never really experience anything wrong with the sound and they are capable to go as low as 35 hz so 60hz is not even breaking a sweat for these puppies and also like feeling more sound coming from the towers then coming out of the sub when it comes to music.

I personally heard Thiel CS 3.7 and Martin Logan CLX, yes it's a whole new experience, sound is breathtaking, also cost repectively 15Gs and 25Gs but for me nothing comes close to Energy C-Series below 800$ a pair. Oh Yeah maybe Dali Concept 8 for music as Callas mentioned but I'll have to see it for myself hehe I beleive they are a bit more then 1grand

Ya man, If all I did was watch movies on my setup, I may be able to live with an 80hz crossover, but I listen to music about half the time and I don't want to constantly by switching my X-over settings back and forth. There are also certain isntances in movies where I prefer the 60hz setting as well.

My only speaker which may not be benefited by the universal 60hz X-over is my Center which is rated down to 50hz. But if there is any dips as a result, I sure don't notice it the way I notice the drawbacks of the 80hz setting.

[arrt vandelay]

not energy related, but just a heads up for you guys if you're needing some sort of upgraded power handling...

i found this power filter for just 49.77. seems like a great deal to me...

http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=apc+c10

apc seems to be a very well respected brand, and i don't have the room anywhere to place a h10 or h15 power conditioner so this will fit nicely behind my tv stand. looks like the silver model is on clearance or something as the black model is priced at about $150 more...

[94GTStang]

Originally Posted by BigAl87

Oh well I think you are both right 80hz is rule of thumb in Home theater for all speakers I even suggested that to one of our new Fellow Energy C-500 speakers owner (94_Stang) but I also like to ear the nice thump of the C-500 at 60hz when listening to music I think they do a great job music with the X-over set to 60hz, never really experience anything wrong with the sound and they are capable to go as low as 35 hz so 60hz is not even breaking a sweat for these puppies and also like feeling more sound coming from the towers then coming out of the sub when it comes to music.

I'm not sure what my receiver has them set to, but they just sound so life less when I turn the sub off. I would expect a little more lows from them. I know that'll be fixed whenever I get the new receiver, but I feel like my sub shouldn't be picking up everything lower than 80hz.

I still can't believe what an upgrade these have turned out to be. Was playing the new Need for Speed Shift tonight and it was unbelievable.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by 94GTStang

I'm not sure what my receiver has them set to, but they just sound so life less when I turn the sub off. I would expect a little more lows from them. I know that'll be fixed whenever I get the new receiver, but I feel like my sub shouldn't be picking up everything lower than 80hz.

I still can't believe what an upgrade these have turned out to be. Was playing the new Need for Speed Shift tonight and it was unbelievable.

I have posted somewhere on this thread that your receiver sends frequecies from 120hz to 20 000hz at 6ohm load. So the lowest frequecy to ever come out of your speakers is 120hz which is quite high. This receiver was really intended to work with small HTIB speakers.

When you finally get that denon 790 you'll freak out on the difference it will make in sound it's gonna be a whole new world. I think you'll be in shock!!!