Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Who pays 14.99 for a digital film? Every single digital release out there can be had for 2.00 D2D, or paying 2-4 dollars on these boards for new codes of new releases and even on mailing lists of those that sell codes only. You might pay 7-10 dollars for a Disney Code but far, far cheaper than physical media. The most I have ever paid for a digital code (of my over 800 films) was the code I just bought last night for 19.99 (Fathers Day wal mart gift card was used on that puppy). It included 4 films The Man with no Name Trilogy and Hang Em High bundle. Anyway point being that digital is far cheaper than physical media. I had close to 3,000 BD's at one time and I can assure you that I paid a hella lot more for those physical discs that took up an entire floor to ceiling shelving unit in a room.

Have you missed the last several posts? It's cheaper BECAUSE of the codes. For consumers, that's good. For the industry, it's very bad. They will lose interest in a format that doesn't produce significant profit. That's what I am trying to say. If the profit margins are going to be so small, the industry might as well hurrry the process of subscription. (It's going that way anyway) Digital is for people that don't truly value their films., it's a quick fix. If there were digital sales every other week and disc wasn't around, do you think the market would be thriving? Of course it wouldn't.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Have you missed the last several posts? It's cheaper BECAUSE of the codes. For consumers, that's good. For the industry, it's very bad. They will lose interest in a format that doesn't produce significant profit. That's what I am trying to say. If the profit margins are going to be so small, the industry might as well hurrry the process of subscription. (It's going that way anyway) Digital is for people that don't truly value their films., it's a quick fix. If there were digital sales every other week and disc wasn't around, do you think the market would be thriving? Of course it wouldn't.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I don't value movies because I have digital? That has to be the funniest thing I've heard this week.

Digital allows me to carry movies with me wherever I want. Next time I travel, I'll be sure to bring my bluray player with me. Wait a minute, I just sold it last week. I only have an Apple TV now.

I guess the video game industry is crashing too because everything went digital.....yet Steam is making a lot of money.

Funny how consoles are going digital too.....

But keep on with the sky is falling posts!

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Lighten up on Old Steedeel, he is one of the few that thinks Discs are not Digital Movies and puts them on the same level as Film. When in fact it's all Digital now, the Codec for Digital HD and Disc are the same.

And you can keep saying that over and over again, and each time you do, you will continue to miss the point.

When Steedeel, myself, or anyone else refers to "digital," we are referring to the distribution method, NOT the data itself.

This is just you (badly) trying to deflect from the points being made, rather than making an actual counterpoint to them.


And to an extent, even in the way that you mean here, those things still aren't the same. Besides just the difference in distribution method, there are still quality differences as well. Most streaming/download options usually come up at least somewhat short in video quality compared to the Blu-Ray counterpart, and come up even more short on the audio end of things.

It would be a somewhat different story if it was literally the exact same digital file/encode from top to bottom... same file size, PQ, AQ, bit rate, etc., etc. But even that's not the case.

So not only are you not properly counterpointing what Steedeel is saying, but even your own argument is flawed on it's own merits, let alone as a counterpoint to Steedeel.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Have you missed the last several posts? It's cheaper BECAUSE of the codes. For consumers, that's good. For the industry, it's very bad. They will lose interest in a format that doesn't produce significant profit. That's what I am trying to say. If the profit margins are going to be so small, the industry might as well hurrry the process of subscription. (It's going that way anyway) Digital is for people that don't truly value their films., it's a quick fix. If there were digital sales every other week and disc wasn't around, do you think the market would be thriving? Of course it wouldn't.

OMG are you really serious? Really?

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

And you can keep saying that over and over again, and each time you do, you will continue to miss the point.

When Steedeel, myself, or anyone else refers to "digital," we are referring to the distribution method, NOT the data itself.

This is just you (badly) trying to deflect from the points being made, rather than making an actual counterpoint to them.


And to an extent, even in the way that you mean here, those things still aren't the same. Besides just the difference in distribution method, there are still quality differences as well. Most streaming/download options usually come up at least somewhat short in video quality compared to the Blu-Ray counterpart, and come up even more short on the audio end of things.

It would be a somewhat different story if it was literally the exact same digital file/encode from top to bottom... same file size, PQ, AQ, bit rate, etc., etc. But even that's not the case.

So not only are you not properly counterpointing what Steedeel is saying, but even your own argument is flawed on it's own merits, let alone as a counterpoint to Steedeel.

WRONG on Video...right on Audio. Sorry but I did a compare on my 75 inch Samsung....no difference in Video the naked eye at all. Sound is somewhat degraded but works just fine for my purposes.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I don't value movies because I have digital? That has to be the funniest thing I've heard this week.

Digital allows me to carry movies with me wherever I want. Next time I travel, I'll be sure to bring my bluray player with me. Wait a minute, I just sold it last week. I only have an Apple TV now.

I guess the video game industry is crashing too because everything went digital.....yet Steam is making a lot of money.

Funny how consoles are going digital too.....

But keep on with the sky is falling posts!

You know it's true, that's why it's hit a nerve.

Console have a like for like game though. In other words, it's the exact same game you would get on disc. Graphics and audio wise. You just pay £10 more for the privilege. Hardly the cost saving blessing some folk say it is.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Lighten up on Old Steedeel, he is one of the few that thinks Discs are not Digital Movies and puts them on the same level as Film. When in fact it's all Digital now, the Codec for Digital HD and Disc are the same. Disc is just a Storage Device, and like I have been saying we are headed towards Media Servers whether on Streaming Provider, Subscription Service, ISP, or Local. Digital HD is here to stay, Discs will fade to a Distant Memory!

Of course the movie file on a Blu-ray is digital, no one says its not. Same codec? Maybe, but not the same bitrate and compression levels. Blu-ray supports a maximum of 40 Mbps, and most discs average between 25-35 Mbps. A typical Vudu HDX stream averages around 9 Mbps. Then there's the audio; no streaming service currently offers uncompressed lossless audio, streaming is Dolby Digital Plus, at best. So, yeah, Blu-ray is digital, but its still higher quality than any currently available streaming option, and will likely remain so for quite some time.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SarahS

WRONG on Video...right on Audio. Sorry but I did a compare on my 75 inch Samsung....no difference in Video the naked eye at all. Sound is somewhat degraded but works just fine for my purposes.

yeah, no difference at all.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SarahS

OMG are you really serious? Really?

Yes, its a well known fact. Us disc lovers want the best possible presentation, the best audio, great extras, lovely packaging, production booklets, great artwork etc. You guys are the McDonald's. Quick fix and move on. We like to savour, you guys just wharf it down and move on. You don't want to see the imperfections, therefore you don't see them. But they are there, in all their shimmering, banding delight.

It is also a well known fact that people who start a sentence with OMG!, generally struggle with films longer than 90 minutes.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by SarahS

WRONG on Video...right on Audio. Sorry but I did a compare on my 75 inch Samsung....no difference in Video the naked eye at all. Sound is somewhat degraded but works just fine for my purposes.

You may notice no difference in the VQ. Others do.

And even if it is the same (or at least close enough), with streaming, it's only good when getting the full quality. If there are any dips, then the quality drops.

I guess that's fine for rentals or watching Netflix to an extent, but for movies that I'm flat out buying, I don't want to deal with that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

You may notice no difference in the VQ. Others do.

And even if it is the same (or at least close enough), with streaming, it's only good when getting the full quality. If there are any dips, then the quality drops.

I guess that's fine for rentals or watching Netflix to an extent, but for movies that I'm flat out buying, I don't want to deal with that.

It goes to worse than YouTube quality, that's horrid. Can't be done with that on movie night. Just imagine if this internet fast lanes and slow lanes comes to pass. Pay more or get YouTube quality or buffering.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by SarahS

WRONG on Video...right on Audio. Sorry but I did a compare on my 75 inch Samsung....no difference in Video the naked eye at all. Sound is somewhat degraded but works just fine for my purposes.

So you personally see no difference, therefore there isn't any, and anyone who does see a difference is just wrong? Okay...

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

I guess the video game industry is crashing too because everything went digital.....yet Steam is making a lot of money.

Funny how consoles are going digital too.....

Not a good comparison. My son downloads 100gb games. That's multiple Blu-rays. And then comes the DLC and required updates. You don't have that with movies.

You could say the gaming industry outgrew physical media (by design)

It's been said here 100 times. The biggest obstacle to digital streaming are the greedy ISP's and their data caps.

*

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[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, its a well known fact. Us disc lovers want the best possible presentation, the best audio, great extras, lovely packaging, production booklets, great artwork etc. You guys are the McDonald's. Quick fix and move on. We like to savour, you guys just wharf it down and move on. You don't want to see the imperfections, therefore you don't see them. But they are there, in all their shimmering, banding delight.

It is also a well known fact that people who start a sentence with OMG!, generally struggle with films longer than 90 minutes.

So disc lovers are the snobby aholes who think they are better then everyone else? Maybe the digital folk realize that you don't need to waste money on non essential things like a booklet, or a collectable figurine, and just want to enjoy the movie. Maybe the digital group doesn't care to see the boogers (which most video is pretty much equal, so theydo). Maybe, just maybe, the digital group thinks hey....for that $20 disc I could get 4-5 movies instead of one. But wait....a digital user wouldn't want that now would they....since they are not a film fan/lover.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

So disc lovers are the snobby aholes who think they are better then everyone else? Maybe the digital folk realize that you don't need to waste money on non essential things like a booklet, or a collectable figurine, and just want to enjoy the movie. Maybe the digital group doesn't care to see the boogers (which most video is pretty much equal, so theydo). Maybe, just maybe, the digital group thinks hey....for that $20 disc I could get 4-5 movies instead of one. But wait....a digital user wouldn't want that now would they....since they are not a film fan/lover.

But you would say that wouldn't you?

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, its a well known fact. Us disc lovers want the best possible presentation, the best audio, great extras, lovely packaging, production booklets, great artwork etc. You guys are the McDonald's. Quick fix and move on. We like to savour, you guys just wharf it down and move on. You don't want to see the imperfections, therefore you don't see them. But they are there, in all their shimmering, banding delight.

Who honestly cares about packaging?

Steelbooks, slipcovers, digibooks, and other packaging items are all wastes of resources.

I watch movies on my Apple TV a lot. If I wanted to wharf it down and move on, I wouldn't buy movies on iTunes. I would just rent them.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But you would say that wouldn't you?

For the video/audiophile disc is better, but for the average person both look great. Digital is more convenient, not even a comparison here. Price wise, (not including codes) they are very similar, and sales happen on all fronts. Codes, and D2D, completely skew the price point, and make digital a bargain for buyers....No matter what their tastes. Collectibles, really only come with discs, and special features/extras are more plentiful on discs as well.

For me, like most people, I enjoy movies and shows, but my existence does not solely revolve around them. I don't have to have the "best" or what someone calls the "best" to enjoy what I have or to live my life. I don't have the most expensive car, house, clothes or other necessities. Yes, like a lot of people there are things I may splurge on, but unless you have an unlimited source of income, those things have to be done in moderation, and be selective.

Steedeel, from your posts, one of your most beloved treasures is film, and the quality of that film. That's awesome. But, for someone who picks up digital codes, or does D2D, that doesn't mean they don't enjoy film. Maybe they are a foodie, and allocate their extra spending on that. Or maybe they bought a smart plug for a Christmas tree one year and that opened the door they had no idea was going to be opened to home automation, which can become addicting.... It could be anything.

For me, if I could get new release blu rays at $4-5 weekly, and digital was $15-20, I would get the discs. Coming from digital though, that would be cumbersome, and I would have to figure out storage, placement and organization. I would even consider keeping just the discs in a CD binder and tossing the case.

I personally make the smartest financial decision for me, and go that route. Just because I buy digital, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy film.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, its a well known fact. Us disc lovers want the best possible presentation, the best audio, great extras, lovely packaging, production booklets, great artwork etc. You guys are the McDonald's. Quick fix and move on. We like to savour, you guys just wharf it down and move on. You don't want to see the imperfections, therefore you don't see them. But they are there, in all their shimmering, banding delight.

It is also a well known fact that people who start a sentence with OMG!, generally struggle with films longer than 90 minutes.

Really? Check out my collection and go look at my top 100 Films over in the movie forum. Think you may actually want to investigate things before making assumptions.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by zarquon

So you personally see no difference, therefore there isn't any, and anyone who does see a difference is just wrong? Okay...

Now that's pretty lame. If I can see no difference at all then why would I not feel that way? I could care less if someone else can because I can't. In fact because I can't was one of the reasons I unloaded a 3000 BD collection. Lastly if you all are so anti digital "storage" then why are you in the digital thread beating a dead horse? You are going to change 0 minds here.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Now that's pretty lame. If I can see no difference at all then why would I not feel that way? I could care less if someone else can because I can't. In fact because I can't was one of the reasons I unloaded a 3000 BD collection. Lastly if you all are so anti digital "storage" then why are you in the digital thread beating a dead horse? You are going to change 0 minds here.

I can't believe anyone would own 3000 blurays! How much space did that take up?

I only buy discs for my favorite movies which means I have very few discs.

I'll never understand why people have huge amounts of movies in their house.