Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

All of his many, many 4K disc reviews are like this with this caveat usually buried in the last, or next to last, paragraph.

Jeebus !!!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Jeebus !!!

I have actually considered, albeit fleetingly, of doing a fundraiser to buy him a decent, but not a flagship by any means, 65" 4K TV.

[sapiendut]

A true gentleman would have turned down the job of reviewing 4K movies if he doesn’t own a proper 4K TV. This is no better than Alchav21 reviewing video quality of movie streaming. oh well, at least Alchav21 owns a 4K TV.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

A true gentleman would have turned down the job of reviewing 4K movies if he doesn’t own a proper 4K TV. This is no better than Alchav21 reviewing video quality of movie streaming. oh well, at least Alchav21 owns a 4K TV.

The problem with alchav's reviews of streaming is that he says that literally EVERYTHING that he watches looks "Fantastic!"
There is always a range of bad to excellent results with any video format, but to him ALL streamed titles look "Outstanding!".

His agenda has always been to tell us that streaming looks as good as 4K disc even though he has not, and can not, make that comparison seeing as he does not own a 4K disc player or any 4K discs. It's dishonest to say that one thing is better than another when you have not even made the comparison in the first place.

But at least he doesn't take all day to tell us nothing.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by alchav21

How is your Streaming setup, what do you use and how is everything connected?

The streamer connected to my TV is a Roku Ultra I bought a couple years ago (should now be updated in my gear profile in my signature). I've also got an Amazon Firestick 4K Max but that one is hooked up to my upstairs TV. My streaming is done over wireless. Doubt that is the problem though as I never seem to have buffering issues and I am fairly sure I've got my wireless router on 5GHz instead of the 2.4GHz.

I think the picture looked fine with Vudu. I usually can't tell much difference unless I move closer to my TV. It's just the audio felt lacking compared to the Blu-ray. I notice the same thing with a lot of Vudu copies. I don't know if it's a problem with Vudu or streaming in general, or just that I can hear some dynamic range compression in DD and DD+ streamed through these platforms compared with the Blu-ray.

On this title - Top Gun: Maverick - I felt that the difference in the audio quality was pretty noticeable. It's like the effects had less impact on the streamed version compared with the Blu-ray. I know, probably not a scientific test because I'm not doing it blind, just reporting what I think I heard.

I think if I were just watching casually over TV speakers or a soundbar, I wouldn't notice. But this was over my Sony AVR and 5.1 speaker setup.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

The streamer connected to my TV is a Roku Ultra I bought a couple years ago (should now be updated in my gear profile in my signature). I've also got an Amazon Firestick 4K Max but that one is hooked up to my upstairs TV. My streaming is done over wireless. Doubt that is the problem though as I never seem to have buffering issues and I am fairly sure I've got my wireless router on 5GHz instead of the 2.4GHz.

Well thanks I thought that might be the case your setup was Wireless, IMO it makes a big difference. If your UHD 4K Player is Hardwired HDMI don't you think the Streaming should be Hardwired Ethernet? Everyone knows that I have always said Hardwired Ethernet makes a big difference in your Streaming Quality!

[sapiendut]

No, because HDMI passes uncompressed video files at up to 18 gbps. Streaming data is no more than 25 mbps.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well thanks I thought that might be the case your setup was Wireless, IMO it makes a big difference. If your UHD 4K Player is Hardwired HDMI don't you think the Streaming should be Hardwired Ethernet? Everyone knows that I have always said Hardwired Ethernet makes a big difference in your Streaming Quality!

I stream over both a wired connection and a wireless one and, for the 1000th time, there is NO difference in streaming quality between them. If there were, I would NEVER use the lesser one. How can you not understand that?

His disconnection from Vudu was probably due to a problem connecting to Vudu's CDN and no type of internet service or network connection would have made any difference.

In the case of Top Gun Maverick 4K UHD disc the audio is Dolby Atmos/ Dolby TrueHD 7.1 (48Khz, 24 bit). This is a lossless audio format with an audio bitrate of 6,000 Kbps.

"Dolby TrueHD bitrates average around 6,000 kbps for Dolby Atmos at 48 kHz with peak data rates up to a maximum of 18,000 kbps for high sampling rate multichannel content.."

https://developer.dolby.com/technolo.../dolby-truehd/

Most streaming services only offer lossy audio with a bitrate of merely 640 Kbps or less. In the case of Vudu, it is only about 450 Kbps as shown in this chart posted by Wendell many, many times already, but one that you choose to ignore or that you can not comprehend:



To summarize: This particular 4K UHD disc offers lossless audio with an average bitrate of 6,000 Kbps.

Vudu streaming offers lossy audio at less than 450 Kbps.

Of course, he could easily hear the difference with his 5.1 surround sound set-up.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

No, because HDMI passes uncompressed video files at up to 18 gbps. Streaming data is no more than 25 mbps.

Well you're wrong, Cat5e is up to 1Gbps and Cat6a is 10Gbps. So if the Streaming Providers like Sony Bravia Core with 80Mbps, Ethernet can handle it!

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well you're wrong, Cat5e is up to 1Gbps and Cat6a is 10Gbps. So if the Streaming Providers like Sony Bravia Core with 80Mbps, Ethernet can handle it!

You are as usual.

He never said what the data rates were for any type of ethernet cable. He said that streaming bitrates were no more than 25 Mbps. He never said that ethernet cable could not handle streaming bitrates. Chicken wire could probably handle data rates that low.

No one was talking about Sony Bravia Core as they are not a typical "anyone can subscribe to" streaming service.

Try reading with comprehension.

[Vilya]

I watched Black Panther 4K UHD disc tonight and I checked the bitrate during the end credits. It was 26.9 Mbps, which is above what you'll ever get from most streaming services during the body of the movie.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

No, because HDMI passes uncompressed video files at up to 18 gbps. Streaming data is no more than 25 mbps.

Actually, HDMI cables can offer data transfer rates up to 48 Gbps. They're called HDMI Ultra High Speed.

https://www.hdmi.org/resource/cables



https://www.cablematters.com/Blog/HD...ultimate-guide

[meremortal]

It looks like physical media has continued to really dry up at the larger retailers. Hadn't really paid attention to WM and was surprised that the local store was only around a quarter at most of the selection from a few months ago with a majority of releases being tv on dvd box sets. So much of the shelving was removed. Minimal blus and uhds. Movies on physical media look to be on its last legs from a larger brick and mortar retail perspective, at least anecdotally. No more sections at BB, minimal Target, and even Barnes & Noble is pretty much down to Criterion/Arrow. Not great optics at all even if the boutiques are shining with diehard collectors. Hate to say it, but this site is about the only thing that keeps me in tune with blu/uhd anymore. I remember the times the site went down for a few days I was mostly lost on the newer/upcoming releases, sales and so forth.

These concerns get brought up a lot and I totally realize that. A recent vid I saw on YT addressing the topic on collecting going forward this year kind of resonated as I'm also at a point of mostly having what I need beyond upgrading movies I already own, back catalog releases and the occasional newer movies. Storage space is pretty much max'd out from accumulating decades of dvds, blus and so forth. Most stuff at this point I could realistically just stream. It's wild to think dvd is still the physical media sales champ nearly three decades later by a good margin, blu is a very seasoned format as well, and uhd has been around for eight years, probably longer than most realize. It's probably tough at this point to bring in new collectors.

[Graxzon]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kinda like a certain prolific forum member that reviews 4K discs...as seen on his 2K TV.

We're in the 9th year of the 4K UHD disc format, so he needs to get with the program already.

That's disingenuous of someone to review 4k Movies when he literally can't view them in at least 4k.

But as for getting with the program, I can relate. I only upgraded to my present 1080p monitor in late 2018, which I am still using at this very moment. There's no budget for a 4k screen. Car is in the repair shop, and has been for months now thanks to parts shortages, dishwasher is broken down and needs a new mainboard, and this PC I am on is now approaching thirteen years of age. Lot of higher priorities on my personal list to throw money at before moving on to a higher resolution screen.

In regards to physical media drying up. I have no idea what Wal-Mart is thinking. The demand is evident, but it's like they are intentionally shrinking their selection at a time when they should have considered expanding it.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Actually, HDMI cables can offer data transfer rates up to 48 Gbps. They're called HDMI Ultra High Speed.

https://www.hdmi.org/resource/cables



https://www.cablematters.com/Blog/HD...ultimate-guide

I know but I want to do apple to apple comparison at 4K resolution.

[stonesfan129]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I stream over both a wired connection and a wireless one and, for the 1000th time, there is NO difference in streaming quality between them. If there were, I would NEVER use the lesser one. How can you not understand that?

His disconnection from Vudu was probably due to a problem connecting to Vudu's CDN and no type of internet service or network connection would have made any difference.

In the case of Top Gun Maverick 4K UHD disc the audio is Dolby Atmos/ Dolby TrueHD 7.1 (48Khz, 24 bit). This is a lossless audio format with an audio bitrate of 6,000 Kbps.

"Dolby TrueHD bitrates average around 6,000 kbps for Dolby Atmos at 48 kHz with peak data rates up to a maximum of 18,000 kbps for high sampling rate multichannel content.."

https://developer.dolby.com/technolo.../dolby-truehd/

Most streaming services only offer lossy audio with a bitrate of merely 640 Kbps or less. In the case of Vudu, it is only about 450 Kbps as shown in this chart posted by Wendell many, many times already, but one that you choose to ignore or that you can not comprehend:



To summarize: This particular 4K UHD disc offers lossless audio with an average bitrate of 6,000 Kbps.

Vudu streaming offers lossy audio at less than 450 Kbps.

Of course, he could easily hear the difference with his 5.1 surround sound set-up.

To be fair, I was only using the standard Blu-ray disc, which still has the same Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Atmos track. But maybe trying through a different service like Apple would make a difference.

[RevolverOcelScott]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have actually considered, albeit fleetingly, of doing a fundraiser to buy him a decent, but not a flagship by any means, 65" 4K TV.

I honestly always thought that was a long-con troll account. All of his posts read robotic and contain 90% the coating on the disc and 10% the disc's contents.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The problem with alchav's reviews of streaming is that he says that literally EVERYTHING that he watches looks "Fantastic!"
There is always a range of bad to excellent results with any video format, but to him ALL streamed titles look "Outstanding!".

He's Right though in a way.

DVDs look good, Best things on Streaming look Fantastic (with good source), and discs look and sound Reference Quality.

I find discs to be the most fun. I did buy an online movie because I thought my kids would enjoy it and they get instant access to it. I may get the disc later. I actually have more 4K movies in iTunes than I do on UHD BD because for a while I purchased online movies regularly. It's fun that my step dad has access to my Vudu/Fandango account because I don't tend to use it.

My cost club had a Roku based TCL 50" 4K set for $140. I should upgrade my PS5 TV. I only have a 1080p LG

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

But maybe trying through a different service like Apple would make a difference.

Do you have a Movies Anywhere account? If not I would sign up for one then link your VUDU and other accounts to MA. On the sample test I have done MA video data rates are a fair amount higher than other digital locker providers. Apple has the edge in audio data rates. Amazon Prime is the pits.

Note: MGM (Amazon), Paramount and Lionsgate uses only Apple or VUDU digital locker services.

It has been sometime since testing but IIRC the A/V data rates via Google Play and Microsoft Movies were just average.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

The streamer connected to my TV is a Roku Ultra I bought a couple years ago (should now be updated in my gear profile in my signature).

Have you tested your Roku and internet? IIRC it is Settings → Network → Check connection. I have my Bandwidth Saver turned Off on my Roku devices.

As you can see I am connected Wireless and my speed is 97 Mbps.

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