Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would recommended that you reconsider your decision for a few reasons.

First, it won't do any good. He's not going to change. That's just the hard truth.

Just in case anyone believed different:

Originally Posted by alchav21

Dynamo don't get all excited, and Wendell it's not Rocket Science. I'm the last person on this Site that prefers Streaming, but I've gone through the Disc Phase and moved on. IMO Streaming Quality is just as good as Disc.

Like I said I go back to the DOS=Disc Operating System days, where it was all Files and Folders on Storage Devices. I know that Files come in many shapes and formats. DVD's had VOB Files and BD had M2TS Files. Put those Files on a Server, and you could Stream the Movie to your Display.

I don't pretend to know how Streaming Providers work, but I had a general idea. So what Wendell said made a lot of sense, Video Encoding and Segmentation. Breaking down Content to Segments or Layers for optimal Quality and Network conditions. IMO this is where Solid Communication and Symmetrical Speeds come into play!

Showing my age again but my early days of binary data was with punch cards, punch tape, audio tape and floppy disk (3 sizes). All of which has ZERO to do with disc vs streaming quality.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Just in case anyone believed different:



Showing my age again but my early days of binary data was with punch cards, punch tape, audio tape and floppy disk (3 sizes). All of which has ZERO to do with disc vs streaming quality.

I remember those days (well, the tail end of punch cards) and yes, it has no relation to streaming.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I'm the last person on this Site that prefers Streaming

That is like saying that Cookie Monster is the last Sesame Street character who enjoys eating cookies.

DVD's had VOB Files and BD had M2TS Files. Put those Files on a Server, and you could Stream the Movie to your Display.

woulda/coulda/shoulda...

The point is that no streaming service is using the exact same files that are on discs. They are using more compressed files.

Sure, if someone wants to rip their discs and put them on some kind of hard drive/personal server, they can do that and get the same quality. But it still requires them to buy the disc in the first place in order to do that. Unless they were to otherwise obtain the file via some kind of illegal means (i.e. downloading a rip of the disc that someone put online somewhere).

So to do this legitimately, it still requires having a collection of discs, even if it will not be necessary to reach for a disc each time one wants to watch a movie after ripping it.

IMO Streaming Quality is just as good as Disc.

And we KNOW that FACTUALLY that is not the case.

If you happen to be happy with streaming quality, and/or if for some reason you specifically/individually cannot tell the difference between the same movie on a 4K disc or 4K stream, that is fine. You are more than welcome to be happy with streaming. Have at it. But it's when you repeatedly state that there is no difference, as if that is absolute fact, that you get disagreement and pushback (especially when we know the factual truth to be contrary to that).

I don't pretend to know how Streaming Providers work

The majority of your posts have been you:

-assuming/pretending to know how streaming providers work

-assuming/pretending that there is no difference between the quality of a disc and a stream of the same movie.

-assuming/pretending that (for some reason) someone ISP upload speeds have to match their download speeds in order to get the best quality from streaming.

-assuming/pretending a myriad of other things related to this topic.

.... and being wrong almost 100% of the time.

So what Wendell said made a lot of sense, Video Encoding and Segmentation. Breaking down Content to Segments or Layers for optimal Quality and Network conditions. IMO this is where Solid Communication and Symmetrical Speeds come into play!

And there you go with the symmetrical speed thing again. Once again, what the hell does someone's upload speed have anything to do with their download speed and the quality they get from streaming content?

That's like saying that someone has to make sure their bathtub drain is draining at absolute maximum efficiency (and that there isn't even so much as a slight partial clog/blockage slowing it down to any extent) in order to get the maximum water pressure from their bathtub spout when they turn it on.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=stream...50c7eb&pc=U531

Please do yourself a favor and stop including links in your posts. The majority of the time, you are not doing yourself any favors. When it seems your posts can't get more ridiculous, you will include links that are either outdated (but you post them as if they are news), make points that contradict what you are saying, recently you just linking to the general MSN page (presumably because you probably saw a headline that you wanted to share, but the story shown changes each time someone goes to the MSN home page), or in this case - you just linked to a bing search results and not to a specific site or article making a specific point. ... or something else just as ridiculous if not more so.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would recommended that you reconsider your decision for a few reasons.

First, it won't do any good. He's not going to change. That's just the hard truth.

Second, what you propose will require a lot of effort on your part and that effort will fail. I understand the desire to correct his patently false comments; I really do. Many of us have refuted his statements for years, but he just keeps repeating them knowing that we will take his bait every time. In short, he's playing us.

Lastly, if the two of you turn this thread into your own personal battlefield of tit for tat replies, you will BOTH run the risk of being booted. It's not worth it. Use your time to educate those that are willing to learn. Put the trolls you encounter on a much needed diet instead.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

OK, thanks for the info. I see they have a app for my streaming devices so I will give it a go soon.

You and I are very different men... so I'm genuinely curious as to how you found the movie.. aside from the /V presentation as I've conceded many times that SHUDDER is the worst of example of what I see from streaming..

...although, I didn't find this one to be anywhere near a worst case scenario...It's a dark movie and I don't recall any instances of banding or macro blocking. The sound was obviously compressed...but even so, there was a very interesting audio effect at the climax that enveloped my room (DTS X PRO upmixed) in a way that the best horror usually can.

[Steedeel]

True Lies 4K just dropped on my mate, don’t think I can wait until weekend for this A.I curiosity, going to watch it tonight.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

True Lies 4K just dropped on my mate, don’t think I can wait until weekend for this A.I curiosity, going to watch it tonight.

I have all 3, and will eventually get around to seeing them. ALIENS took the longest to come in and so I waited before trying the others... I kinda wished I hadn't as watching it has damped my desire to watch the other 2...

TRUE LIES is one that I'll screen alone as I don't see it as something anyone else in the house would care to see as even I find it a bit cringy in spots. I haven't upgraded it since the LaserDisc (which I still have).

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

True Lies 4K just dropped on my mate, don’t think I can wait until weekend for this A.I curiosity, going to watch it tonight.

I've already watched The Abyss and Aliens. Aliens is better than The Abyss as far as picture quality. It's cleaned up but still retains a gritty look. I've heard True Lies is the worst of the 3 so I saved it for last.

[bhampton]

I have only found time to watch the Abyss from my copies so far.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I've already watched The Abyss and Aliens. Aliens is better than The Abyss as far as picture quality. It's cleaned up but still retains a gritty look. I've heard True Lies is the worst of the 3 so I saved it for last.

The UHD of ALIENS didn't rape my childhood or anything...I just prefer my Blu ray going forward... I'm sure the UHDs of the other two will be the best that we're going to get... and that'll be fine I'm sure.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by crutzulee

so I'm genuinely curious as to how you found the movie.. aside from the /V presentation as I've conceded many times that SHUDDER is the worst of example of what I see from streaming..

Haven’t watched yet, hence my interest in SHUDDER. When we stream we overlook most technical deficiencies so unless SHUDDER is horrible it will be fine in this use case.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Haven’t watched yet, hence my interest in SHUDDER. When we stream we overlook most technical deficiencies so unless SHUDDER is horrible it will be fine in this use case.

If you subscribe to AMC+ you get access to Shudder, IFC, BBC America, Sundance TV, Sundance Now, and IFC Films Unlimited.

[crutzulee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Haven’t watched yet, hence my interest in SHUDDER. When we stream we overlook most technical deficiencies so unless SHUDDER is horrible it will be fine in this use case.

SHUDDER has the lowest quality streams of any such service that I personally use... but I find it more than acceptable. From what I read here and elsewhere, I am certain that there are far worse quality streamers out there... I wouldn't know as I don't use many of the what I read are the worst offenders.

The service is invaluable to me because, as most horror fans know, you often have to sift through a lot of junk in order to find a true gem. I guess, much like you lowering your technical standards when watching streaming, one has to grade on a different curve when assessing the narrative merits of a horror movie.. LOL..

All in all, SHUDDER has increasingly been introducing me to a number of "gems" that I wouldn't have seen otherwise... and, sadly, will more than likely never see the light of day on physical media.... and while I see the chicken and egg, catch 21 with that state of affairs, I'm powerless to change it. I applaud those that take a stand, but I'm not going to deprive myself of a good movie experience...

...and that's what I'll say about the A/V quality. It's a "good" experience. YOU"LL NEVER FIND ME was 1080p with 5.1 sound (actually, it may have been stereo). Upscaled to 4K and upmixed to 7.4.6... It was very "good"... .

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

If you subscribe to AMC+ you get access to Shudder, IFC, BBC America, Sundance TV, Sundance Now, and IFC Films Unlimited.

. I should have known to check with you first because you seem to always know the best deals around. Ad free AMC+ is not much more than Shudder alone.

AMC+ does not list a Android TV app (Sony, Nvidia), they have a Android pone and tablet app. No problem in the home theater because there is a ATV4K in there as well.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

If you subscribe to AMC+ you get access to Shudder, IFC, BBC America, Sundance TV, Sundance Now, and IFC Films Unlimited.

I feel so let down by AMC. Sat through every season of TWD but all the latest spin offs have been neglected in the U.K., if they didn’t have rights, one would think they would negotiate a deal for another service to show them, it really sucks.

[Steedeel]

I was slightly nervous but I’m now confident of buying all the other Cameron’s and watching them projected.


Ok, so I have went in easy and watched this on a tv first, (L.G Evo C3 65 OLED), and to my utter relieve, this was very watchable. I absolutely noticed some of the digital tinkering, and honestly, it didn’t really bother me.
Fine detail was outstanding at times, with debris, fabrics and facial close ups coming off best. The image was crisp, smooth and colours such as the Red lettering of the hotel and Simon’s car popped nicely.
Jamie’s dance sequence looked great, contrasting against the moonlight lit room, and highlighting her fine form.
The removal of most grain gives the presentation a digital look, but this is not a badly compressed DVD with awful EE, it’s a 4K disc that at times looks stunning, other times a little too digital, but never less than watchable.
Those that have stopped watching out of protest, I fear are more concerned for the format, than film itself, I’m here for both, but I don’t want to be wasting my time pausing individual frames and studying detail that would take me out of the film.
That’s not to say I didn’t notice the occasional issue, especially with Gib’s close ups, but no deal breaker for me. Also noted were several instances of background characters who should have been in focus looking blurry, but again, nothing ruined for me.
The sharpness did show up some dodgy FX, but that’s no different to many older action films in 4K.
The added detail that many speak of, well it’s been a few years since I last saw this film and quite frankly, added or not, I don’t care.
Finally, grain was visible in some night shots and scenes with heavy FX, so it is there

My star ratings out of 5

PQ ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

I found audio to be crisp, clear and well balanced. The ambient conversations in HQ travelling well, and the restroom shootout demonstrating directional accuracy and control.
The musical cues came through loud and clear, maintaining punch, without becoming too overbearing.
I may have noticed some slight distortion with dialogue in the scene where Semir gives Harry the truth Serum, it’s very brief and I haven’t seen this film for years, so members more familiar might be able to inform me with that one.
Overall, a very decent soundtrack.

Audio ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

This was a delight to revisit, all the stuff I remembered from years back was still effective and well executed. The chase on horseback, the helicopter rescue, the seductive dance, and the finale all looked and sounded great.
While some themes may be seen as controversial now, I don’t really care, it was a different era. It’s secure in my collection, so if they do remove it in the future, I will always have access.
Overall, good performances from the cast, especially Jamie Lee.
Not an outright classic, but a thoroughly entertaining action movie.

Film⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Haven’t checked out the extras yet and I will post an updated review in the coming months when I watch it projected.

I will now buy Aliens and The Abyss with total confidence, if this is the worst, I can easily deal with that.
I do take the complaints of others on board, I simply don’t have a major problem with how this looks.
If future 4K catalogue titles have more of a traditional, organic look that’s great, if they don’t, I can live with the ultra clean, modified look.

That’s my honest take.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I was slightly nervous but I’m now confident of buying all the other Cameron’s and watching them projected.


Ok, so I have went in easy and watched this on a tv first

[Show spoiler], (L.G Evo C3 65 OLED), and to my utter relieve, this was very watchable. I absolutely noticed some of the digital tinkering, and honestly, it didn’t really bother me.
Fine detail was outstanding at times, with debris, fabrics and facial close ups coming off best. The image was crisp, smooth and colours such as the Red lettering of the hotel and Simon’s car popped nicely.
Jamie’s dance sequence looked great, contrasting against the moonlight lit room, and highlighting her fine form.
The removal of most grain gives the presentation a digital look, but this is not a badly compressed DVD with awful EE, it’s a 4K disc that at times looks stunning, other times a little too digital, but never less than watchable.
Those that have stopped watching out of protest, I fear are more concerned for the format, than film itself, I’m here for both, but I don’t want to be wasting my time pausing individual frames and studying detail that would take me out of the film.
That’s not to say I didn’t notice the occasional issue, especially with Gib’s close ups, but no deal breaker for me. Also noted were several instances of background characters who should have been in focus looking blurry, but again, nothing ruined for me.
The sharpness did show up some dodgy FX, but that’s no different to many older action films in 4K.
The added detail that many speak of, well it’s been a few years since I last saw this film and quite frankly, added or not, I don’t care.
Finally, grain was visible in some night shots and scenes with heavy FX, so it is there

My star ratings out of 5

PQ ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

I found audio to be crisp, clear and well balanced. The ambient conversations in HQ travelling well, and the restroom shootout demonstrating directional accuracy and control.
The musical cues came through loud and clear, maintaining punch, without becoming too overbearing.
I may have noticed some slight distortion with dialogue in the scene where Semir gives Harry the truth Serum, it’s very brief and I haven’t seen this film for years, so members more familiar might be able to inform me with that one.
Overall, a very decent soundtrack.

Audio ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

This was a delight to revisit, all the stuff I remembered from years back was still effective and well executed. The chase on horseback, the helicopter rescue, the seductive dance, and the finale all looked and sounded great.
While some themes may be seen as controversial now, I don’t really care, it was a different era. It’s secure in my collection, so if they do remove it in the future, I will always have access.
Overall, good performances from the cast, especially Jamie Lee.
Not an outright classic, but a thoroughly entertaining action movie.

Film⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Haven’t checked out the extras yet and I will post an updated review in the coming months when I watch it projected.

I will now buy Aliens and The Abyss with total confidence, if this is the worst, I can easily deal with that.
I do take the complaints of others on board, I simply don’t have a major problem with how this looks.
If future 4K catalogue titles have more of a traditional, organic look that’s great, if they don’t, I can live with the ultra clean, modified look.

That’s my honest take.

They're just going to love you over in the True Lies 4K thread.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

IMO Streaming Quality is just as good as Disc.

If this was an honestly arrived at opinion, that would be acceptable, but it isn't.

First, you haven't bought a blu-ray disc in many years, so how can you make the comparison?

Secondly, you do not own a 4K disc player nor do you own any 4K discs, so you can't make this comparison at all.

You can't say that two things are equal when you never made the comparison in the first place, thus you're opinion is a dishonest one. No surprise there.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

They're just going to love you over in the True Lies 4K thread.

Well, the hyperbole was getting ridiculous, claiming a Spanish Blu-ray was far superior and members saying they turned it off in disgust, it really isn’t that bad.

I enjoyed the heck out of it, even with its flaws.

[Steedeel]

Well, I am now 49 years old! I raise a digital glass to you all, cheers and all the best!