Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Kenneth M]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I know I am one of those who started to build out a collection through Vudu. The MD2D redemption was quite enticing. Then I started to see how they had a lot of old masters so moved over to Apple. I still use Apple sometimes and it's very convenient on my Firestick when I travel. Then Vudu got bought by Fandango and I think they have just made the service worse. Lots of outages and it seems like they want to put an end to MD2D. Apple isn't bad but I still don't want to stake my favorite movies on a system where they can remove things and not give me a refund. Physical media still offers permanence of ownership and a better viewing experience in my opinion.

Agree. I've a lot of content I purchased on Apple, but lately haven't spent a dime. They've screwed me twice. Once for a Kaleo album preorder that they didn't allow me to redeem once it dropped, and another time for Peaky Blinders. I made the purchase and then, one day, it just disappeared without refund or explanation.

I believe the end goal here are user targeted commercials in everything. TV series, movies, video games. Soon after, it'll be, want to get a little level up bonus in your Fallout main character? Just watch two minutes of why this politician is going to make your life better if you vote for them. Hard. Pass. I'll pay all my money on the front end so I can relax and enjoy it for the rest of my life on the back end. Luckily, with around 200 million Playstation 3 & 4 blu-ray players sold globally, there will never be a shortage of things to play our BDs within our lifetimes... I have far more reservations about functional 4K hardware availability in the long run.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Currently, I have about 33TB of data on the NAS in reference, my upload speed is about 30 Mbps which means it would take ≈ 2,445 hours to upload. For cloud storage @ 2¢/GB/Month my cost would be .02 x 33,000 = $660 a month.

With RAID 5 I can lose 1 drive and recover (will take quite a few hours to rebuild).

Makes sense.

Been thinking about options for my own setup.

I’m in the process of upgrading to 1 Gbps up/down for $75/month. I also use a cloud backup service which allows for unlimited storage from a single PC, at $99 a year. 2x 18TB drives run in the $700-750 range.

For me the discs are the original, so I’m not super concerned about RAID redundancy (although you could double that drive investment cost and do RAID 1 or 5) and I’m not streaming out to other people so a single 7200 RPM drive is easily fast enough. So for a fairly modest HDD investment, and monthly costs under $100/month one could do a non-raid setup with cloud backups, assuming the availability of fiber internet access.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not use cloud storage nor do I back-up my movies to hard drives, but I thought that the terms of service that govern the usage of cloud storage stipulate that you will not upload copyrighted material.

The cloud storage service may not enforce this, but I believe that they reserve the right to delete such content and even ban the user for uploading it.

This all falls under the "I read it somewhere" category, so maybe I'm wrong?

When I backup a disc I just make another disc (1:1 replicate) and I only do this for rare/limited edition discs, OOP discs, or for discs known to have a high failure rate.

Terms and service agreements are on a per vendor basis, but I’m curious to hear what the theoretical copyright infringement is of storing a backup copy (not used for viewing or sharing) of a legally purchased disc is. Also what percentage of cloud backups are mp3s, flacs, mkvs, etc? I’m not saying cloud backup is a perfect solution, but as a 3rd layer of redundancy it should work just fine.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

I watched Duel for the first time the other day. Kind of an odd movie, laughed quite a bit at how bad of a driver the guy was.

I loved this film since watching it the first time as a kid. Even though it was originally a TV movie, I seem to remember the extended theatrical version always being shown on TV years ago, and this is the version I have on disc, even though I have seen the shorter edit.

When you mentioned the driver, not sure if you meant the truck driver or Dennis Weaver - but it always seemed to me that Weaver was slowing down again every time he passed the truck. Still a great movie for me.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Kenneth M

Agree. I've a lot of content I purchased on Apple, but lately haven't spent a dime. They've screwed me twice. Once for a Kaleo album preorder that they didn't allow me to redeem once it dropped, and another time for Peaky Blinders. I made the purchase and then, one day, it just disappeared without refund or explanation.

I believe the end goal here are user targeted commercials in everything. TV series, movies, video games. Soon after, it'll be, want to get a little level up bonus in your Fallout main character? Just watch two minutes of why this politician is going to make your life better if you vote for them. Hard. Pass. I'll pay all my money on the front end so I can relax and enjoy it for the rest of my life on the back end. Luckily, with around 200 million Playstation 3 & 4 blu-ray players sold globally, there will never be a shortage of things to play our BDs within our lifetimes... I have far more reservations about functional 4K hardware availability in the long run.

I am stunned that it hasn’t happened already in gaming. For example, the pre game lobby when we are waiting for all players to join.

I think that’s where Fortnite is going with the Disney deal. Adverts in game and at every opportunity. It’s a really sad prospect.

As for video. Well YouTube had already been destroyed by ads. It’s an awful experience now.

As for discs and collecting, I’m right with you of course. But don’t be so sure that they can’t infect us collectors with their adverts. Some TVs could potentially in the future, have the ability to detect what source you are using (HDMI source) and what you are seeing/watching at the time and place adverts when it thinks you have paused the screen. There was a huge rumour that Roku are considering this technology but you can bet others like Android and Samsung tv would use it.
It’s one thing invading people’s privacy like that, it’s another actually getting the technology right. What if a film has an intentional freeze frame or similar?

It’s looking like a horrible future.

Hopefully projectors will be free of this nightmare scenario.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by CV19

I loved this film since watching it the first time as a kid. Even though it was originally a TV movie, I seem to remember the extended theatrical version always being shown on TV years ago, and this is the version I have on disc, even though I have seen the shorter edit.

When you mentioned the driver, not sure if you meant the truck driver or Dennis Weaver - but it always seemed to me that Weaver was slowing down again every time he passed the truck. Still a great movie for me.

The 4K of the extended version looks great, but the original bonus version included is dreadful, it’s not even DVD quality.

[CV19]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The 4K of the extended version looks great, but the original bonus version included is dreadful, it’s not even DVD quality.

Thanks mate, I wasn't even aware this film had a 4K release. It goes to show what I know.

The blu-ray I have came out several years ago now, but I'm always on the lookout to upgrade an old disc.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by CV19

Thanks mate, I wasn't even aware this film had a 4K release. It goes to show what I know.

The blu-ray I have came out several years ago now, but I'm always on the lookout to upgrade an old disc.

Welcome, if you prefer the extended edition it is an easy buy.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

Terms and service agreements are on a per vendor basis, but I’m curious to hear what the theoretical copyright infringement is of storing a backup copy (not used for viewing or sharing) of a legally purchased disc is. Also what percentage of cloud backups are mp3s, flacs, mkvs, etc? I’m not saying cloud backup is a perfect solution, but as a 3rd layer of redundancy it should work just fine.

I do not know how well cloud storage services police what people upload, or if they even bother much with it, but a casual glance through some of Google's terms of service says that they do periodically scan what people upload and that they do delete what they deem violates their terms and such deletions can lead to being banned.

Anyway, I do not trust any "back-up" that is not in my actual possession in the same way that I do not see any of my digital titles as something that I really own. The files are all on someone else's server and I have no control over someone else's server.

As I said earlier, I make 1:1 disc back-ups on a case by case basis. I also consider disc combo packs as offering a back-up copy, albeit on a lesser format. I liked blu-ray editions that included a DVD copy and I really like 4K discs that include a blu-ray copy. The inclusion of a digital code is nice, too, but I do not trust digital copies because I do not possess them.

Ripping my entire collection to hard drives, or making disc back-ups of everything, would be very expensive and absurdly time consuming. Over 9000 titles, plus their extra features, backed-up in 1:1 quality would be beyond daunting even if I were healthy and wealthy and I am very much neither.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Well YouTube had already been destroyed by ads. It’s an awful experience now.

Google's ads are over-the-top obnoxious, but thankfully my current ad blocker extension allows me to watch youtube videos on my computer uninfected with them. Watching youtube on my Android OS Sony TV, or via the Roku, is a simply hellish experience.

Google says ads help pay youtube content creators, but I suspect that the vast lion's share of that ad revenue goes into their pockets and not the people uploading the latest hijinks of their kitties.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

As for discs and collecting, I’m right with you of course. But don’t be so sure that they can’t infect us collectors with their adverts. Some TVs could potentially in the future, have the ability to detect what source you are using (HDMI source) and what you are seeing/watching at the time and place adverts when it thinks you have paused the screen. There was a huge rumour that Roku are considering this technology but you can bet others like Android and Samsung tv would use it.

It’s one thing invading people’s privacy like that, it’s another actually getting the technology right. What if a film has an intentional freeze frame or similar?

It’s looking like a horrible future.

As usual, I do not share your pessimistic outlook.

TV home screens mostly just promote movies and shows that are available on various streaming and EST services. When they start telling me how to save money on car insurance then I will get annoyed.

Newer disc releases, blu-ray and 4K alike, rarely have those front loaded auto launching movie trailers that were common on so many older disc releases. If these newer disc releases offer trailers at all, they are usually in the extra features section and their presence there does not bother me at all. In this regard, newer disc releases have actually improved as far as shoving ads in our faces goes.

[Kenneth M]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I am stunned that it hasn’t happened already in gaming. For example, the pre game lobby when we are waiting for all players to join.

I think that’s where Fortnite is going with the Disney deal. Adverts in game and at every opportunity. It’s a really sad prospect.

As for video. Well YouTube had already been destroyed by ads. It’s an awful experience now.

As for discs and collecting, I’m right with you of course. But don’t be so sure that they can’t infect us collectors with their adverts. Some TVs could potentially in the future, have the ability to detect what source you are using (HDMI source) and what you are seeing/watching at the time and place adverts when it thinks you have paused the screen. There was a huge rumour that Roku are considering this technology but you can bet others like Android and Samsung tv would use it.
It’s one thing invading people’s privacy like that, it’s another actually getting the technology right. What if a film has an intentional freeze frame or similar?

It’s looking like a horrible future.

Hopefully projectors will be free of this nightmare scenario.

You are 100% on point.

A couple of years ago, I logged into gamefaq forums from an old account to stir the pot and see what I could come up with. They have these "physical vs digital" threads pop at least once a week where the die hard decades old residents take the side of physical, and a few old members, but curiously mostly brand new accounts, demonize and eschew physical media as being clutter, adding pollution to already brimming landfills, and even lament how cartridges can spontaneously quit working, or discs can be scratched and quit working, where a download is "forever". Lol. (We all know the virtues of physical, so I won't touch on that).

So I start in on how the end goal is to get the consumer off of physical discs so they can put in commercials, and why gamepass is willing to hemmhorage so many millions. They are willing to do that on the front end because commercials will make them billions on the back end.

Well, the horrors of ruining the immersion of videogames with commercials took hold and soon many started parroting it. YouTube videos were made, columns written, and soon we had an answer: Sony said they were open to it. In fact, it was dug up that early in the 2000's they were trying to figure out how to do it. Microsoft, however, kept their mouths shut.

Then someone in the forums gave another angle of how it will happen. He said that they are developing cordless televisions that have no hdmi cords. That if any secondary devices are to be used, they will have to communicate it and throw it to the tv, which will have the power to interrupt content with... commercials... and this will attempt to render our current and previous gaming systems (and physical players) obsolete.

It appears to be just over the horizon.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Hi guys, it’s good to be back!

Thanks for all the support and messages. It’s very much appreciated.

nice to see you back.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Kenneth M

Then someone in the forums gave another angle of how it will happen. He said that they are developing cordless televisions that have no hdmi cords. That if any secondary devices are to be used, they will have to communicate it and throw it to the tv, which will have the power to interrupt content with... commercials... and this will attempt to render our current and previous gaming systems (and physical players) obsolete.

It appears to be just over the horizon.

"Someone on a forum said" is about as far from being a credible source as one can find. First off, who are "they" that are allegedly developing cordless TVs? I watch TV tech developments with more than a passing interest and I have read absolutely nothing about cordless TVs designed to shove ads in my face.

I would not jump from an anonymous forum comment to predicting that these ad happy cordless TVs are "just over the horizon." If they were, we would be reading about them everywhere and from numerous credible sources. The outcry on these forums alone would be deafening with much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth.

[Kenneth M]

Yes, that's it.

I find it credible because it makes perfect sense, Vilya.

I hope your response ages well.

[Vilya]

Is the ad interruption problem confined to some subscription gaming titles? I ask because I have not experienced any ads interrupting my playing of non-subscription games.

Diablo IV has its "real money" cosmetics shop and they are always trying to get people to buy seasonal battle passes, but it does not interfere with game play once you are underway playing. Still, they always remind me of these "upgrades" on the Battle.net login app and in the game menus.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Kenneth M

Anyone else notice that the "Most users ever online was...." number on the forum main page jumped from around 28,000 in 2014 to about 38,000 just last week?

Is the pendulum starting to swing back in favor of physical media? Are people starting to wise up?

it was all the fake users to attack steed

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not use cloud storage nor do I back-up my movies to hard drives, but I thought that the terms of service that govern the usage of cloud storage stipulate that you will not upload copyrighted material.

The cloud storage service may not enforce this, but I believe that they reserve the right to delete such content and even ban the user for uploading it.

This all falls under the "I read it somewhere" category, so maybe I'm wrong?

my guess it falls under "cover our a$$" more than anything.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Kenneth M

Yes, that's it.

I find it credible because it makes perfect sense, Vilya.

I hope your response ages well.

Possible, maybe, sorta, but hardly perfect sense. But credible, no.

Credible means verifiable respectable sources, plural, that corroborate the story. There are none that I am aware of that support this prediction.

This would piss off a LOT of people and would deter many of them from buying new TVs with this "feature." It would encourage people to hang onto their old TVs even longer. TV manufacturers want us to upgrade often and I can't see how this could be seen as an improvement from the customer's perspective. You know, the people that actually buy the things that they are selling.

I hope my response ages well, too, and better than I have. I always prefer positive unsubstantiated predictions from anonymous forum members over negative ones, like the guy here on blu-ray.com that insists that we will have an 8K optical disc format as soon as 2026 despite there being no evidence of that happening. There's never any shortage of doom & gloom predictions, so I enjoy his optimistic soothsaying much more.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

my guess it falls under "cover our a$$" more than anything.

That’s the deal. Companies aren’t spending their own time and money to search through content in order to kick paying customers off of their service. It’s much more of a, “I’m shocked, shocked to find gambling is going on here” situation.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by deatheats

That’s the deal. Companies aren’t spending their own time and money to search through content in order to kick paying customers off of their service. It’s much more of a, “I’m shocked, shocked to find gambling is going on here” situation.

So long as the cloud services get their money and their terms cover their arse, I am sure that they are happy.

But cloud storage will never satisfy the control freak in me. I must have actual possession of all of my stuff.

I also hate paying recurring fees to store things. I prefer the one time cost of buying whatever storage medium I want to use. Well, not really "one-time", but many storage devices last a damn long time.