Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

last year there was a company called Telly that decided to release a "free" physical TV that had a main screen (55" TV) and below it a banner screen for adds.



so is it possible there might be some TVs that can show adds even if you watch physical media? yeah even if I have no idea if anyone has ever received one of these "free" TVs or if the company still exists. But let's face it
1) avoid buying a TV with such a feature if you don't want added ads by the TV
2) if you are streaming and you have such TV you are out of luck. But if the TV is not connected to the internet can it DL ads to show?

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

last year there was a company called Telly that decided to release a "free" physical TV that had a main screen (55" TV) and below it a banner screen for adds.

[Show spoiler]

so is it possible there might be some TVs that can show adds even if you watch physical media? yeah even if I have no idea if anyone has ever received one of these "free" TVs or if the company still exists. But let's face it
1) avoid buying a TV with such a feature if you don't want added ads by the TV
2) if you are streaming and you have such TV you are out of luck. But if the TV is not connected to the internet can it DL ads to show?

Current TVs have very low amounts of internal storage space and usually just enough space for firmware updates and app installs and their updates. If they want to download ads to plague offline viewing they will need to increase their internal storage quite a bit.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Current TVs have very low amounts of internal storage space and usually just enough space for firmware updates and app installs and their updates. If they want to download ads to plague offline viewing they will need to increase their internal storage quite a bit.

possibly bad choice of words on my part. Was not talking about local storage, maybe stream ads would have been a better way of putting it. Even though technically ads could be saved so that they play back form local storage and save BW the reality is it will need to talk to the ad server so the ad server can bill the advertiser.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Vilya

So long as the cloud services get their money and their terms cover their arse, I am sure that they are happy.

But cloud storage will never satisfy the control freak in me. I must have actual possession of all of my stuff.

I also hate paying recurring fees to store things. I prefer the one time cost of buying whatever storage medium I want to use. Well, not really "one-time", but many storage devices last a damn long time.

I get you on the paying to store things. Honestly, I use the backup service exactly for that, backing up my PC…it’s only recently I’ve begun contemplating digitizing all of my 4k discs (where good players are the limiting factor) in order to preserve future playability and easy portability. It costs me the same amount for the backups either way.

The time it takes to rip is a hurdle, but I’ve undergone similar projects with my CD collection (doing both MP3 & FLAC rips) and it’s easy to get into a pattern of dropping a disc in hitting a button and walking away.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Google's ads are over-the-top obnoxious, but thankfully my current ad blocker extension allows me to watch youtube videos on my computer uninfected with them. Watching youtube on my Android OS Sony TV, or via the Roku, is a simply hellish experience.

Google says ads help pay youtube content creators, but I suspect that the vast lion's share of that ad revenue goes into their pockets and not the people uploading the latest hijinks of their kitties.



As usual, I do not share your pessimistic outlook.

TV home screens mostly just promote movies and shows that are available on various streaming and EST services. When they start telling me how to save money on car insurance then I will get annoyed.

Newer disc releases, blu-ray and 4K alike, rarely have those front loaded auto launching movie trailers that were common on so many older disc releases. If these newer disc releases offer trailers at all, they are usually in the extra features section and their presence there does not bother me at all. In this regard, newer disc releases have actually improved as far as shoving ads in our faces goes.

I should have been clearer, I meant the tv manufacturers are becoming the gate keepers with their all in streaming freebies and integrated paid apps. They own the ecosystem and with players like Amazon and Roku, that technology is something they could bring in. Netflix and several U.K. services already have ads when you pause content, this would be an expansion of that, across HDMI devices, a patent was available a few months back so it’s something they are looking at.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

last year there was a company called Telly that decided to release a "free" physical TV that had a main screen (55" TV) and below it a banner screen for adds.



so is it possible there might be some TVs that can show adds even if you watch physical media? yeah even if I have no idea if anyone has ever received one of these "free" TVs or if the company still exists. But let's face it
1) avoid buying a TV with such a feature if you don't want added ads by the TV
2) if you are streaming and you have such TV you are out of luck. But if the TV is not connected to the internet can it DL ads to show?

I think they are just presuming most people will use the smart tv apps anyway, so might as well cover all HDMI devices. Placed ads when the user pauses content, regardless of which HDMI they are using. It might even end up written into the terms if they sell cheaper tvs with that understanding.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Kenneth M

You are 100% on point.

A couple of years ago, I logged into gamefaq forums from an old account to stir the pot and see what I could come up with. They have these "physical vs digital" threads pop at least once a week where the die hard decades old residents take the side of physical, and a few old members, but curiously mostly brand new accounts, demonize and eschew physical media as being clutter, adding pollution to already brimming landfills, and even lament how cartridges can spontaneously quit working, or discs can be scratched and quit working, where a download is "forever". Lol. (We all know the virtues of physical, so I won't touch on that).

So I start in on how the end goal is to get the consumer off of physical discs so they can put in commercials, and why gamepass is willing to hemmhorage so many millions. They are willing to do that on the front end because commercials will make them billions on the back end.

Well, the horrors of ruining the immersion of videogames with commercials took hold and soon many started parroting it. YouTube videos were made, columns written, and soon we had an answer: Sony said they were open to it. In fact, it was dug up that early in the 2000's they were trying to figure out how to do it. Microsoft, however, kept their mouths shut.

Then someone in the forums gave another angle of how it will happen. He said that they are developing cordless televisions that have no hdmi cords. That if any secondary devices are to be used, they will have to communicate it and throw it to the tv, which will have the power to interrupt content with... commercials... and this will attempt to render our current and previous gaming systems (and physical players) obsolete.

It appears to be just over the horizon.

Yes, wireless rather than HDMI I think it was. Bear in mind, a separate box would still be required with the various connections such as HDMI. So essentially, still requires HDMI though, it’s just transmitted directly to the tv.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

nice to see you back.

Thanks mate.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I should have been clearer, I meant the tv manufacturers are becoming the gate keepers with their all in streaming freebies and integrated paid apps. They own the ecosystem and with players like Amazon and Roku, that technology is something they could bring in. Netflix and several U.K. services already have ads when you pause content, this would be an expansion of that, across HDMI devices, a patent was available a few months back so it’s something they are looking at.

I am on a lot of meds, so I may be the one with clarity issues.

I do not see any ads when I pause streamed content...at least so far. It better stay that way, too. If the streaming service is entirely free then that's different, but ads should not appear when pausing a scene to get a closer look at something therein.

If you are saying that someday a TV will show me an ad when I pause my disc player to look more closely at a film scene then I will want to the jackasses responsible.

I imagine that the TV would have to be connected to the internet in order to force feed such advertising garbage and, if so, it is pretty easy to kill that connection with the flip of a switch. I would still be ticked off to have to do that, though.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think they are just presuming most people will use the smart tv apps anyway, so might as well cover all HDMI devices. Placed ads when the user pauses content, regardless of which HDMI they are using. It might even end up written into the terms if they sell cheaper tvs with that understanding.

There are a lot of stupid people out there. But even if someone asked me "I only watch stream X on the TV and it comes as a pre-built app do I need inputs" my answer will always be absolutely. The most useless TV would be a TV without inputs of some sorts (could be wireless but it needs an open standard that will work with external devices).

for example there was this new announcement this week (not the same one from a few weeks ago)

https://www.howtogeek.com/netflix-re...t-tv-apple-tv/

Netflix is set to discontinue support for older models of Apple TVs and Sony TVs in the coming months

the history of internet apps is the history of lost support.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

There are a lot of stupid people out there. But even if someone asked me "I only watch stream X on the TV and it comes as a pre-built app do I need inputs" my answer will always be absolutely. The most useless TV would be a TV without inputs of some sorts (could be wireless but it needs an open standard that will work with external devices).

for example there was this new announcement this week (not the same one from a few weeks ago)

https://www.howtogeek.com/netflix-re...t-tv-apple-tv/


the history of internet apps is the history of lost support.

It seems to fly in the face of sustainability doesn’t it? That’s why dongles and streaming boxes are better than smart v apps and always will be in my opinion.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am on a lot of meds, so I may be the one with clarity issues.

I do not see any ads when I pause streamed content...at least so far. It better stay that way, too. If the streaming service is entirely free then that's different, but ads should not appear when pausing a scene to get a closer look at something therein.

If you are saying that someday a TV will show me an ad when I pause my disc player to look more closely at a film scene then I will want to the jackasses responsible.

I imagine that the TV would have to be connected to the internet in order to force feed such advertising garbage and, if so, it is pretty easy to kill that connection with the flip of a switch. I would still be ticked off to have to do that, though.

Netflix does it now, but shows ads for its other films and shows (static). C4 here does it also, but only on desktop, tablet and laptop i believe so far.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Netflix does it now, but shows ads for its other films and shows (static). C4 here does it also, but only on desktop, tablet and laptop i believe so far.

I have not noticed Netflux doing that here, but I have not watched anything from them in two or three months. That's how much I value their programming.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

But if the TV is not connected to the internet can it DL ads to show?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

possibly bad choice of words on my part. Was not talking about local storage, maybe stream ads would have been a better way of putting it. Even though technically ads could be saved so that they play back form local storage and save BW the reality is it will need to talk to the ad server so the ad server can bill the advertiser.

If I was more coherent, I would have simply answered that if the TV is not connected to the internet, it can not download anything.

[bhampton]

I see static ads anytime I pause content on NF, PeaCock, Tubi

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It seems to fly in the face of sustainability doesn’t it? That’s why dongles and streaming boxes are better than smart v apps and always will be in my opinion.

1) companies are not there for sustainability but to have revenue *(i.e. convince you to buy new).
2) it is not that simple,
--- a) If the streaming provider decides it wants to use a new codec (and drop the old one) or a new feature.... the device might not be able to support it (not enough memory, not enough CPU....)
--- b) even if the device could be updated in theory you then have the economic factor, is it worth paying to make a new version of the app that supports the new streaming (or anything else really) , some of the old devices would have stopped working, some of the old devices might have been decommissioned because the person wanted something better/newer.
3) the article talked about Sony TVs and Apple TV devices. so dongles are not immune. the benefit is you have a choice if you are happy with the TV you can just replace/add an external device. But that does not mean that the dongle or external device won't stop working one day because of planned obsolescence.

[deatheats]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It seems to fly in the face of sustainability doesn’t it? That’s why dongles and streaming boxes are better than smart v apps and always will be in my opinion.

Even in the early days of smart TVs I was always looking for what was essentially a giant monitor (no tuner or cpu, just the display and inputs). One would think it would be cheaper to produce, yet after all of these years, still no real options in the market. Yes monitor sizes have increased substantially, but the TV folks never seemed interested.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If I was more coherent, I would have simply answered that if the TV is not connected to the internet, it can not download anything.

but that was the point. If someone is watching a BD there is no need to have the TV or BD player connected to the internet. If someone is watching Netflix with the TV app then they need the internet connection to be actives nd then the TV can be DL more adds from the TV manufacturers ad server.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but that was the point. If someone is watching a BD there is no need to have the TV or BD player connected to the internet. If someone is watching Netflix with the TV app then they need the internet connection to be actives nd then the TV can be DL more adds from the TV manufacturers ad server.

The simple way around that is to not use the TV app and keep the TV disconnected from the internet and use a streaming box instead- unless the streaming boxes get the same infernal idea.

If these things happen, my ambivalence towards subscription streaming services will turn to hatred instead.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I see static ads anytime I pause content on NF, PeaCock, Tubi

I guess I really haven't streamed anything for longer than I thought. Funny how I haven't missed it in the slightest.

I have not noticed static ads when I pause watching a digital copy from Vudu, but that could easily change, too, as this idea must appeal to digital storefronts that get no recurring monthly subscription income.