Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by russweiss1

Twisters in IMAX is a really fun time.

Was meant to be going but it fell through. Will blind buy on UHD. Can’t wait to check out the A/V.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Gotho(redux)

Something that seems to have been overlooked is that Viggo Mortensen's new western The Dead Don't Hurt is also now available. Has anyone seen it yet?

Going through a western revival at the moment. Watched Brimstone, Bone Tomahawk, The English (tv series) and Last Of The Mohicans.

May check out The Dead Don’t Hurt.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If I thought it was guaranteed to last and a reliable future option, I would buy one the very day discs are over.

In some imaginary world where it came with a ten year guarantee anyway!

Not gonna lie, I am considering it as a possible addition to the system once the dust settles on the new house, but it is far down on the list of priorities with other expenses like window treatments and new furniture being more important.

The main reason for me though is the fact that there are titles available in disc quality 4k and Atmos on the store compared to physical offering Blu-ray as a best option at the moment.

[russweiss1]

Originally Posted by Gotho(redux)

Something that seems to have been overlooked is that Viggo Mortensen's new western The Dead Don't Hurt is also now available. Has anyone seen it yet?

I saw this and Horizon in the theater. While The Dead Don't Hurt was a technically good film I found it slow and much less entertaining than Horizon.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Not gonna lie, I am considering it as a possible addition to the system once the dust settles on the new house, but it is far down on the list of priorities with other expenses like window treatments and new furniture being more important.

The main reason for me though is the fact that there are titles available in disc quality 4k and Atmos on the store compared to physical offering Blu-ray as a best option at the moment.

Something to chew over mate.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Not gonna lie, I am considering it as a possible addition to the system once the dust settles on the new house, but it is far down on the list of priorities with other expenses like window treatments and new furniture being more important.

The main reason for me though is the fact that there are titles available in disc quality 4k and Atmos on the store compared to physical offering Blu-ray as a best option at the moment.

That’s a good reason . In those cases I’m happy with the Blu and even happier with an eventual upgrade version.

I think iTunes/ATV4K competes pretty well also. I bought Godzilla Minus One on iTunes because there isn’t an English subtitle version yet.
They (Kaliesescape) have gone out of business at one point. I hope things got much better.

I like reading about them. Seems like DIY systems have a major advantage in the cost of storage. My own server that I am no longer using was working well with Zidoo Z9X. I may go back to using it again because it simplifies storage of the media itself

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Basically, it is a movie download service. The movie prices are comparable to a 4K disc, but the proprietary hardware necessary to watch their downloads is exorbitant. Well, in the opinion of most people, that is. Look at their hardware prices and try not to

they recently introduced the strato V, is not cheap by any means but not crazy expensive (MSRP 4k). It has a new interface and can hold ~ 10 movies (so it can be a stand alone system), if someone is OK re-DL and only looking for one TV it is not a bad solution.

The issue with K is that it adds up because it is all proprietary, so buy the movie server, add a bunch of players for each TV, add more disk space as your collection grows and you have it stored locally....

[mng]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Horizon Chapter 1 was Outstanding, it's 3Hrs long and it kept me there the whole time. I also have FTTP and the Movie was in UHD HDR with AD Audio, and the Picture Quality and Sound were Fantastic! I highly recommend this Movie!

We just saw Twisters. It was good, but I like the original a little better (which we just watched at home a week ago)

[mng]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have many "mature" items that are still working as intended:

I have a pair of Polk SDA 2 speakers that are 40 years old that I still use routinely.

I have a Technics turntable that is 45 years old that still works fine.

My Pioneer DVL-909 laserdisc/DVD player is 26 years old this year; it is a little quirky, but it does its job.

My Oppo 93 blu-ray player is 12 years old and it is going strong.

I have a JVC S-VHS VCR S5802U that is around 35 years old. It is in working order despite my very seldom use of it.

... and I could keep going, but you get the idea. All of this stuff still works and gets used from quite often to quite rarely. Some of this stuff may be obsolete, but because I still have uses for them I consider none of them to be paperweights.

Having a $4000 device device potentially become unusable simply because its maker went under would really annoy the hell out of me, but I'm glad that you're okay with taking such a risk.

The devices you list are all basically local. Do not require support from the MFG. If K goes belly-up, I suspect you will have to get someone to cart it away. (I have an HP 41C calculator from the 70's. Still works, but I have no need to it. Also an Atari 1200xl, with the box)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kaleiedscape has come very close to bankruptcy on more than one occasion; I simply do not trust them, especially for what their hardware costs. They are way too big of a gamble in my estimation.

I find this comment funny since in the past when you have purchased digital titles you said you don't assume they are not permanent.


1) K offers rentals so if you rent titles from them then they are not permanent to begin with

2) if you buy the the V it has 1TB of storage built in (though not sure how much is left for movies) K sees it as ~10 4k films . If you buy their biggest terra-prime it has 96TB max and you can have more than one server. If K shuts down any film you bought that is on your server will still continue playing unfortunately you won't be able to rent, buy or re-DL anything not there. So not a complete loss like streaming.

Apple's ATV4K may not offer disc quality, but it doesn't cost $4000, either, and the likelihood of Apple going bankrupt is almost inconceivable.

the United East India Company was once the biggest company by far but it disappeared. When my dad looked at replacing windows the sales person at Sears said " the 25 year warrantee is from Sears any problem the window and the work to replace it is covered , it is better than a manufacturer warrantee because you can't be sure they will be around (Sears shut down less then 4 years later, at least here in Canada). Block buster was also too big to fail. the problem with bigger is that IMHO is that it gets to the point where failing is inevitable and weary too easy. Stock holders expect constant growth, at some point that becomes hard to do and then they take out the money and life becomes harder for Big corp.


but it is not just if it goes bankrupt, is it? can I buy a new apple newton? we bought my dad an iPad mini a long time ago, it still technically works, but none of the video call apps on it work any more (reason we bought it for him so we can keep in contact when he is away). The version of the apps on it say they needs to be upgraded, when you go to upgrade the apps they say they need newer IOS, when you try and upgrade IOS it says won't work on the device becaus eit is too old.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Yes I know it is a Movies Anywhere title and will be available in digital lockers that you have linked to in Movies Anywhere. I was making reference to the poor choice of using Amazon Prime to view a MA title when compared to Movies Anywhere in terms of A/V bit rates.

he always makes terrible choices when it comes to AV quality and then describes it as outstanding. I think we all know enough not to expect differently.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

My replacement TV has shipped via the same carrier that killed the first one with an ETA of July 24th; just five more days of
There's a big blank space in my living room that really needs to be filled.

I had to order a longer HDMI cable, too, as the inputs on the Sony Bravia 9 are just out of reach of my existing HDMI cable by mere inches.

good luck

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Wouldn't it be better to demo your client's post calibration performance with input devices and video sources that they actually use, such as their own disc player and discs and/or whatever streaming services they utilize? They are not going to be watching your Kaleidescape after you leave. They are going to watch what they have, not what you have.

Showing off your Kaleidescape sounds like you are plugging the device and its service or, even more likely, that you are using your Kaleidescape in your line of work to make it a tax deductible expense.

As a customer who just paid to have his incoming TV professionally calibrated I can tell you that I am only interested in seeing how my stuff looks on my display.

depends on equipment and installation but I can see the benefit of it. Having 5-6 known hand picked clips that can easily be cued from one of the best sources to show the difference between before and after can definitely add something IMHO. Better than picking a before and after of the first thing that pops up on amazon prime a terrible source will look terrible even with the best calibration

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

How my stuff looks on my newly calibrated TV and how my calibrator's stuff looks on my newly calibrated TV are two entirely different things. I want to see how my stuff looks post calibration, not his.

One would assume a calibrator will have verified the proper operation of any source device they use for calibration and/or demo use. I know some calibraters can do audio as well. Don’t know if they can verify the proper output* of source devices like disc players, media players, etc.

If I were calibrating a display device I would want to know it looked correct with a known source. Because most consumer source devices have lots of settings that can totally whack out a picture would mean it is a unknown as to a check of the display. It would be totally wrong for a calibrator to compensate for a whacked source.

*In my setup I have made provisions to use a Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G Capture & Playback Card (here), done the necessary wiring, inserted a HDMI HDCP eliminator/splitter/scaler in order to use this software. Just have not taken the time to procure, install and setup.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I want to see how my stuff looks on my freshly calibrated display, not what your Zidoo can do.

but he did make it clear (not in his first post on the subject) that he does that too, to me it was kind of obvious from the get go that it would be part of it

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

How my stuff looks on my newly calibrated TV and how my calibrator's stuff looks on my newly calibrated TV are two entirely different things. I want to see how my stuff looks post calibration, not his.

but what does "my stuff" actually mean? does everything on physical media look the same? does every stream look the same? is there a difference between watch a shot on a bright summer day in Antarctica in the middle of no where and a scene on a moon less night in the jungle?

You need to find different scenes from different content that will show different stuff. some good bright scenes , some good dark scenes, some colorful scenes, some nuanced scenes to show the difference of subtle shading


and yes if he came to my home he probably could find most of what he needs but what if that other customer just bought a UHD BD player and has 0 content yet? or the guy y just has 10 movies in his home. And when it comes to streaming "my stuff" is even harder to comprehend, there is constant content churn and many people are constantly churning providers. so just because the guy is using service A when he calibrates it, it does not mean that customer will still be with a in a month, maybe he moved along to service B by then.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I may go back to using it again because it simplifies storage of the media itself

IMHO, streaming convince at disc quality will always appeal to some. My Zidoo HT4 has way more features than any streamer I have used. It is my understanding the next firmware update will include HT5.

Another update to the ATV4K and lost Developer HUD again, now I have to update the Mini OS and Xcode, again.

Amazon Prime Diagnostics: they have removed the display of the codecs being used along with the A/V data rates.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

One would assume a calibrator will have verified the proper operation of any source device they use for calibration and/or demo use. I know some calibraters can do audio as well. Don’t know if they can verify the proper output* of source devices like disc players, media players, etc.

If I were calibrating a display device I would want to know it looked correct with a known source. Because most consumer source devices have lots of settings that can totally whack out a picture would mean it is a unknown as to a check of the display. It would be totally wrong for a calibrator to compensate for a whacked source.

*In my setup I have made provisions to use a Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G Capture & Playback Card (here), done the necessary wiring, inserted a HDMI HDCP eliminator/splitter/scaler in order to use this software. Just have not taken the time to procure, install and setup.

the fist issue is there are

devices and DEVICES there are installations and INSTALATIONS and there are calibrations and CALBRATIONS.

Best buy will say their geeks can install and calibrate your devices and they will connect that cable running down your wall and change a couple of settings on your screen.
for me I have one or more settings for permanent devices on my projector (for example I have three distinct settings for my UHD player and two for my PS5) so if I have a wonky device that I use I can work around it by having wonky settings just for it (and when someone pushes to watch something on it the settings go wonky and when someone pushes to watch something else they go un-wonky).


so I get why Villa wants to make sure his inputs are properly calibrated. But I just disagree with him, I think known test material is worth it because it can show the talent of the calibrator and that IMHO is much harder to do using random material based on what is available.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

IMHO, streaming convince at disc quality will always appeal to some.

isn't that the funny thing about convenience (assuming that was the correct word from context)? It is a word that seems to mean a lot but in reality tends to be almost meaningless.

having to rip/dl by using digital copy seems like a lot more inconvenient than picking a film off of the shelf I just passed in front on the way to my HT.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I find this comment funny since in the past when you have purchased digital titles you said you don't assume they are not permanent.

That sentence contains a double negative, so I find it funny myself.

My stance on digital redemptions and purchases is that they are all nothing but long term rentals of unknown duration, but they are something that I can access from almost anywhere and that I can share with my family and friends.

The ability to share access is the main reason that I bother with digital. I rarely watch anything in my digital collection, but there are a few titles therein that I don't have on disc for various reasons.

Having remote access is another benefit, but the only places I travel to now are medical facilities and I usually don't feel like watching anything while there and on my tiny phone at that.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

If you buy their biggest terra-prime it has 96TB max and you can have more than one server.

K's 96 TB server costs $26,995 at Best Buy. Let me know how many you plan to buy.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/kaleide...?skuId=6580244

Originally Posted by Anthony P

If K shuts down any film you bought that is on your server will still continue playing unfortunately you won't be able to rent, buy or re-DL anything not there. So not a complete loss like streaming.

Until that ridiculously over-priced proprietary server fails.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but it is not just if it goes bankrupt, is it?

[Show spoiler]can I buy a new apple newton? we bought my dad an iPad mini a long time ago, it still technically works, but none of the video call apps on it work any more (reason we bought it for him so we can keep in contact when he is away). The version of the apps on it say they needs to be upgraded, when you go to upgrade the apps they say they need newer IOS, when you try and upgrade IOS it says won't work on the device becaus eit is too old.

With digital titles, and streaming in general, you have to update your hardware from time to time, but at least Apple will still be here when that time comes. Will K still be here? One of these two companies is a lot stronger financially than is the other.

With the Movies Anywhere system, many of my digital movies are accessible from multiple digital platforms providing yet another measure of confidence. If K goes under, there is no such alternative.