Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Kage

Apple lost market share due to non-4k support, no original content, no video streaming monthly plan, and only it uses their own ecosystem.

Apple lost market share because it is being hamstrung by the industry. If Apple had codes for every film it would be controlling the Digital market. No doubt about that.

Also those figures are speculation. I mean 20-35 percent? That is some difference. Which is it?

[echopulse]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Apple lost market share because it is being hamstrung by the industry. If Apple had codes for every film it would be controlling the Digital market. No doubt about that.

Also those figures are speculation. I mean 20-35 percent? That is some difference. Which is it?

I beg to differ. There are many more Rokus, Fire Sticks, and Google Chromecasts in use than there are AppleTVs. People will generally buy digital films that they can play on their device. Apple lost market share because they didn't join UV. So did Amazon.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by echopulse

I beg to differ. There are many more Rokus, Fire Sticks, and Google Chromecasts in use than there are AppleTVs. People will generally buy digital films that they can play on their device. Apple lost market share because they didn't join UV. So did Amazon.

Amazon has gained market share. If those figures you linked to are accurate (lol)
They were at 15% in 2015 I understand.

Yet, only in the U.S is UV a viable option. Most other major countries do not have a U.V option. UV has failed (IMO) in every country except U.S Meaning people are heading for Apple or Amazon. In fact, if this year is any indication, I would say UV is starting to wind down here.

[whipnet]

Itunes doesn't have codes for many movies and even the ones that do exist, you can barely give them away. With no UV support, iTunes is my last choice for digital content.

*

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Itunes doesn't have codes for many movies and even the ones that do exist, you can barely give them away. With no UV support, iTunes is my last choice for digital content.

*

Yes, just said that. If there were codes for every film, it would be very different. Apple will sort it, they always do.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, just said that. If there were codes for every film, it would be very different. Apple will sort it, they always do.

Apple is going to crater like they've done multiple times already. You do realize that without Microsoft and Bill Gates, there would be no Apple right now.

https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

*

[echopulse]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, just said that. If there were codes for every film, it would be very different. Apple will sort it, they always do.

I doubt Apple will "sort it." They are always playing catch up. And his point was that UV codes are in demand, ans iTunes codes are not. UV codes for new releases go for $8 to $10. iTunes codes go for $3 or $4. The exception is Disney. And that's not really an indicator, as Disney codes are connected to DMA, and thus, Vudu.

From what I heard Amazon had 40% of the digital sales market around 2013. Back then there was only iTunes, Amazon, and Vudu.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by echopulse

I doubt Apple will "sort it." They are always playing catch up. And his point was that UV codes are in demand, ans iTunes codes are not. UV codes for new releases go for $8 to $10. iTunes codes go for $3 or $4. The exception is Disney. And that's not really an indicator, as Disney codes are connected to DMA, and thus, Vudu.

From what I heard Amazon had 40% of the digital sales market around 2013. Back then there was only iTunes, Amazon, and Vudu.

UV codes are in demand because they are the only one's available for every title. All things have to be equal before we get on the 'Smash Apple train' the industry would rather abandon its film fans than let Apple control the market. It's desperate man. You guys have just struck lucky with Vudu. I can guarantee if you didn't have that storefront you would be playing a VERY different tune right now.
When disc are no more, I will be sticking with Apple. Nothing wrong with walled gardens. I would rather that than a service that could go under in a few years.

[Kage]

After a few weeks of thinking, I decided that the best solution for me is to support both blu-ray and iTunes. My plan is to purchase movie series bundles and tv shows on blu-ray because they cost cheaper than on iTunes, and iTunes for individual movies by buying the iTunes movie redemption codes or wait for sales on iTunes. I just do not want to be stuck on one format.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Apple lost market share because it is being hamstrung by the industry. If Apple had codes for every film it would be controlling the Digital market. No doubt about that.

You guys are vastly overestimating the importance of codes. They make no money for the studios (on the contrary), and compared to the overall market only a tiny number of people trade/buy codes. This is why two of the three market leaders are where they are even though they are no codes for them at all.

Originally Posted by echopulse

I beg to differ. There are many more Rokus, Fire Sticks, and Google Chromecasts in use than there are AppleTVs. People will generally buy digital films that they can play on their device. Apple lost market share because they didn't join UV. So did Amazon.

Amazon has actually gained market share. They and Comcast are the winners of the recent years.

But to some extent it also depends on how you measure. For example, the numbers used by the WSJ include both EST and rentals. If you exclude rentals, iTunes has a bigger advantage over the others.

Originally Posted by echopulse

I could see Vudu getting 15% to 20% of that total. They had about 10% 5 years ago, I believe.

Vudu isn't even close to double digits in EST.

[whipnet]

Codes or no codes, just pick any movie on this site. Look at the number of people who have that title in UV vs iTunes in their collections. Amazon is not even on the map. And you can't buy movies from Comcast that I know of.

*

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Codes or no codes, just pick any movie on this site. Look at the number of people who have that title in UV vs iTunes in their collections. Amazon is not even on the map. And you can't buy movies from Comcast that I know of.

*

Comcast does have options to "buy" content, including both TV shows and movies.

Someone who knows more can correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that in order to be able to access that content, you have to continue having at least the base level of Comcast cable service. So, while the digital route is not the main route for me and I don't think ever will be until when/if I have no other choice, if someone is inclined to purchase movies digitally, I don't know why in god's holy name anyone would opt to buy them trough Comcast.

UV, Vudu, ITunes, and even Amazon are all far better options by comparison.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Comcast does have options to "buy" content, including both TV shows and movies.

Someone who knows more can correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that in order to be able to access that content, you have to continue having at least the base level of Comcast cable service.

According to their FAQ you can continue watching purchased movies via the Xfinity web portal or mobile apps even if you disconnect all cable services. Clearly not optimal though, since there is (to my knowledge) no Xfinity app for any streaming box that you can connect to a TV.

UV, Vudu, ITunes, and even Amazon are all far better options by comparison.

Agreed.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Codes or no codes, just pick any movie on this site. Look at the number of people who have that title in UV vs iTunes in their collections. Amazon is not even on the map.

That's a classic case of selection bias.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

You guys are vastly overestimating the importance of codes. They make no money for the studios (on the contrary), and compared to the overall market only a tiny number of people trade/buy codes. This is why two of the three market leaders are where they are even though they are no codes for them at all.
Amazon has actually gained market share. They and Comcast are the winners of the recent years.

But to some extent it also depends on how you measure. For example, the numbers used by the WSJ include both EST and rentals. If you exclude rentals, iTunes has a bigger advantage over the others.
Vudu isn't even close to double digits in EST.

Yep, I already stated that Amazon have grown market share.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

According to their FAQ you can continue watching purchased movies via the Xfinity web portal or mobile apps even if you disconnect all cable services. Clearly not optimal though, since there is (to my knowledge) no Xfinity app for any streaming box that you can connect to a TV.
Agreed.

Roku has had an Xfinity app for a little while now. Not sure if you can access purchased movies if you are no longer a customer though. When I had TWC I used my Roku's as the cable box. It was awesome and saved $10 a month.

http://corporate.comcast.com/news-in...eaming-players

https://blog.roku.com/blog/2016/04/2...roku-platform/

[moviegeek1992]

I know people like to mock Steedeel's theories of the future of media but I agree that the issue of censorship is quite interesting. Amazon have recently introduced a more strict set of rules and regulations regarding sex/nudity and violence in movies with certain titles having been pulled from their Prime video service for containing inappropriate content - http://www.blumhouse.com/2017/03/27/...nd-censorship/

Funnily, Amazon Prime is loaded with a large amount of softcore and Japanese pink eiga titles on their service, but with all the sex cut out! It's like they know people watch that stuff but want to excise the USP out of those movies for the sake of being family friendly(?)

After the recent London Bridge attack, a documentary, The Jihadi's Next Door, that featured one of the terrorists was removed from both Netflix UK and the streaming service of the channel that originally aired it. Examples like this prove that certain digital services may edit or pull episodes that they feel is either not appropriate or politically correct in the future even if you have paid for them. There are benefits to providers meddling with content such as fixing subtitles or correcting wrong aspect ratios etc (something that gives them an edge over physical media where if there's a mistake it's there forever) - but that same thing could allow them to easily edit content in the future that they deem is inappropriate. Total censorship is not going to happen any time soon but with Amazon and maybe others soon testing the waters it won't be long before it'll be implemented for all indie/obscure movies, although it's obvious that big blockbuster movies will be unaffected, so if that's all you really watched it shouldn't matter to much I guess and probably why there hasn't been an outcry because most people don't care about indie titles to begin with.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I know people like to mock Steedeel's theories of the future of media but I agree that the issue of censorship is quite interesting. Amazon have recently introduced a more strict set of rules and regulations regarding sex/nudity and violence in movies with certain titles having been pulled from their Prime video service for containing inappropriate content - http://www.blumhouse.com/2017/03/27/...nd-censorship/

Funnily, Amazon Prime is loaded with a large amount of softcore and Japanese pink eiga titles on their service, but with all the sex cut out! It's like they know people watch that stuff but want to excise the USP out of those movies for the sake of being family friendly(?)

After the recent London Bridge attack, a documentary, The Jihadi's Next Door, that featured one of the terrorists was removed from both Netflix UK and the streaming service of the channel that originally aired it. Examples like this prove that certain digital services may edit or pull episodes that they feel is either not appropriate or politically correct in the future even if you have paid for them. There are benefits to providers meddling with content such as fixing subtitles or correcting wrong aspect ratios etc (something that gives them an edge over physical media where if there's a mistake it's there forever) - but that same thing could allow them to easily edit content in the future that they deem is inappropriate. Total censorship is not going to happen any time soon but with Amazon and maybe others soon testing the waters it won't be long before it'll be implemented for all indie/obscure movies, although it's obvious that big blockbuster movies will be unaffected, so if that's all you really watched it shouldn't matter to much I guess and probably why there hasn't been an outcry because most people don't care about indie titles to begin with.

Yep, this will only get worse as time goes on. My favourite genre is horror films. Sad times coming.

Oh wait, Fifty thinks my claim of complete censorship is absurd! That I need to wear a tin foil hat. Yet, we now read about a major content distributor like Amazon censoring content on their service. Content that is usually essential to certain horror genres.

Like I correctly said a few pages ago, eventually we will have total censorship and with it, a constant supply of 'family' films. Can't wait!

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yep, this will only get worse as time goes on. My favourite genre is horror films. Sad times coming.

Oh wait, Fifty thinks my claim of complete censorship is absurd! That I need to wear a tin foil hat. Yet, we now read about a major content distributor like Amazon censoring content on their service. Content that is usually essential to certain horror genres.

Like I correctly said a few pages ago, eventually we will have total censorship and with it, a constant supply of 'family' films. Can't wait!

Well the Pendulum swings, if you think there are a lot of Censorship now, just wait and it will swing back. No need to get all excited, it's all about demand and the all mighty Dollar. If people demand and want something, it will happen. So don't give up hope, just invest in the right Assist!

[flyry]

Originally Posted by moviegeek1992

I know people like to mock Steedeel's theories of the future of media but I agree that the issue of censorship is quite interesting. Amazon have recently introduced a more strict set of rules and regulations regarding sex/nudity and violence in movies with certain titles having been pulled from their Prime video service for containing inappropriate content - http://www.blumhouse.com/2017/03/27/...nd-censorship/

Funnily, Amazon Prime is loaded with a large amount of softcore and Japanese pink eiga titles on their service, but with all the sex cut out! It's like they know people watch that stuff but want to excise the USP out of those movies for the sake of being family friendly(?)

After the recent London Bridge attack, a documentary, The Jihadi's Next Door, that featured one of the terrorists was removed from both Netflix UK and the streaming service of the channel that originally aired it. Examples like this prove that certain digital services may edit or pull episodes that they feel is either not appropriate or politically correct in the future even if you have paid for them. There are benefits to providers meddling with content such as fixing subtitles or correcting wrong aspect ratios etc (something that gives them an edge over physical media where if there's a mistake it's there forever) - but that same thing could allow them to easily edit content in the future that they deem is inappropriate. Total censorship is not going to happen any time soon but with Amazon and maybe others soon testing the waters it won't be long before it'll be implemented for all indie/obscure movies, although it's obvious that big blockbuster movies will be unaffected, so if that's all you really watched it shouldn't matter to much I guess and probably why there hasn't been an outcry because most people don't care about indie titles to begin with.

All that says is that those "extreme" titles will no longer be FREE for prime members. It doesn't mean you still cannot purchase them.

Besides Netflix will gladly stream those titles if Amazon won't. Plenty of raunchy movies on there.