HDR heatmaps and torch mode UHDs

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by dorian

Of the 200 screenshots I took, very few exceeded 250 nits with none of them exceeding 300 nits. Modern super high budget blockbuster movies don't need blazing highlights to look good

Yes, I know. I just commented on that it’s quite common that they have higher MaxCLL, regardless of whether it’s needed to look good or not.

[nick4Knight]

Regardless if you think it still looks "good" or even "really good" it is artifically making it capped to 300 or below. That's the part I tend to find annoying. The cameras and film used today bake in more dynamic range of capture natively than ever before.

So it's a choice they are forcing on the content. They are compressing the range that would exist in the master. With Cameron is where I see it kinda making the most logical sense. He's preserving the appeal of what is a billion dollar money maker for him each outing. Hard to resist his intentions with HDR grading not outshining that primary product.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

Regardless if you think it still looks "good" or even "really good" it is artifically making it capped to 300 or below. That's the part I tend to find annoying. The cameras and film used today bake in more dynamic range of capture natively than ever before.

So it's a choice they are forcing on the content. They are compressing the range that would exist in the master. With Cameron is where I see it kinda making the most logical sense. He's preserving the appeal of what is a billion dollar money maker for him each outing. Hard to resist his intentions with HDR grading not outshining that primary product.

Yeah, but to some filmmakers the look is the look is the look, you know? They don't want to have to create something drastically different just because they can, while others will go hog wild and change it up. The theatrical 'look' is the gold standard for several filmmakers today, and as that 'look' can be preserved very faithfully using today's technology - as opposed to the photochemical vagaries of yesteryear when you couldn't guarantee that any two prints looked the same, never mind the home video transfers - then they will do so, as it's the theatrical version that they've slaved over for many months or even years.

Messrs Johnson & Yedlin, Roger Deakins, now Cameron, they get everything they artistically desire from those theatrical deliverables and see no reason to arbitrarily adjust it to fit someone else's ideal of what modern home video can do. They'd only be "forcing" something on it that they don't want, and I do actually respect them for that as the tech should be there to service the art, not the other way around. There are plenty other examples of UHDs that "pop" (ugh) so we can always watch those if we want a quick technological fix.

[Macatouille]

Ad Astra (2019)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2

Heatmaps

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[Fjodor2000]

@Macatouille & @dorian:

Just wondering, have you also been able to bring Pyoko's WCG analysis tooling back to life?

See for example left column in this post:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=75

[dorian]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

@Macatouille & @dorian:

Just wondering, have you also been able to bring Pyoko's WCG analysis tooling back to life?

See for example left column in this post:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=75

The gamut visualisation script I wrote works but it's very slow. It cycles through every pixel to check its position in the chromaticity diagram. The other issue is how matplotlib plots coordinates with the white point being the very center. This creates an ugly starburst kind of pattern. I spent an ungodly amount of time trying to resolve this issue to no avail.

On another note, should I adjust the heatmap script to output 1080p jpeg images instead of 2160p png's? This will greatly reduce the file size and thus load times on the forum.

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by dorian

On another note, should I adjust the heatmap script to output 1080p jpeg images instead of 2160p png's? This will greatly reduce the file size and thus load times on the forum.

Good idea. Those screenshots are about simple information, not the actual image quality, so I think 1080p is enough.

[Macatouille]

Originally Posted by dorian

On another note, should I adjust the heatmap script to output 1080p jpeg images instead of 2160p png's? This will greatly reduce the file size and thus load times on the forum.

Definitely good with 1080p and it’d save me a step too.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by dorian

Of the 200 screenshots I took, very few exceeded 250 nits with none of them exceeding 300 nits. Modern super high budget blockbuster movies don't need blazing highlights to look good

And that confirms that the rush for displays with 2000 nits peak brigthness or 100% BT.2020 color gamut/volume is pointless...

DCI sets the standards and those are WAY below what modern displays can do...

We are gonna be stuck with Display P3 color space and less than 1000 nits MaxFALL for years to come....

If you have a display that can do 1000 nits peak luminance, you are basically set for a decade.

But even below that (600 to 1000 nits), tone mapping has improved a lot since the early days of the UHD format (both in HDR10 and DV)

[dorian]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Good idea. Those screenshots are about simple information, not the actual image quality, so I think 1080p is enough.

Originally Posted by Macatouille

Definitely good with 1080p and it’d save me a step too.

Done. Average file size has gone from 10MB to 500KB.

[Fjodor2000]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

And that confirms that the rush for displays with 2000 nits peak brigthness or 100% BT.2020 color gamut/volume is pointless...

DCI sets the standards and those are WAY below what modern displays can do...

Not always. If you have a look at the WCG analyses that Pyoko made in this thread for some movies, you'll find some that have colors outside DCI-P3.

For example, see this analysis from Matrix below. Check out the color space triangles on the bottom left.

[Macatouille]

Originally Posted by dorian

Done. Average file size has gone from 10MB to 500KB.

The new version is way faster. But I have found that when I do a big upload batch (>30 files), that a lot of the heatmaps don't download. Found that keeping batches under 10 helps.

[dorian]

Originally Posted by Fjodor2000

Not always. If you have a look at the WCG analyses that Pyoko made in this thread for some movies, you'll find some that have colors outside DCI-P3.

For example, see this analysis from Matrix below. Check out the color space triangles on the bottom left.

[Show spoiler]

I finally found a way to create a nice looking plot. My previous attempt looked like this:

[Show spoiler]

You can see the ugly pattern I mentioned earlier.

[Show spoiler]

This looks much better and closer to what Pyoko was doing.

[Macatouille]

Almost Famous (2000)

Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 273 cd/m2

Heatmaps

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualizations

[Show spoiler]

HDR10 Plot

[dorian]

Cliffhanger (1993)

[Show spoiler]

Gamut Visualisation

[Macatouille]

[sojrner]

Originally Posted by dorian

Cliffhanger (1993)

Is that the newer DV version, or the previous HDR10-only release?

[dorian]

Originally Posted by sojrner

Is that the newer DV version, or the previous HDR10-only release?

It's from the recent 30th anniversary edition. Base layer only though.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

We are gonna be stuck with Display P3 color space and less than 1000 nits MaxFALL for years to come... If you have a display that can do 1000 nits peak luminance, you are basically set for a decade.

I would highly doubt 10 years. There will be hundreds if not thouands of "demo" content made between now and then on places like Youtube and hopefully increasingly on download sites (so the bitrate/PQ is better). Nature documentaries, documentaries, special presentations that will look crap on current year TV's in 10 years compared to then-current year displays. So a display improvement every year is not pointless it just depends if you're ONLY in it for 24p movie content from the studio system or not?

And even in that paradigm the standards wont be locked to contemporary films its only a matter of time bt.2020 color space is more utilized than just P3 within the container. Sure you'd not see that much on catalog content but thats a tiny slice of HDR content from Hollywood anyways, even today. Like 10% of total content in number. I hope that number increases to 20% so all my wishlist comes, but it might always be a fraction and the true floodgates may never breach. We might trickle for the whole 2020's

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by sojrner

Is that the newer DV version, or the previous HDR10-only release?

The base layers are virtually the same between the two of them, so it makes no difference.