Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No, what you are doing is leaving a few facts out to suit your own argument. First of all, Digital HD is not replacing the decline in DVD either. It's not showing the growth it should be at this stage in its life. It's just not. Vudu is a niche still and people are not interested in collecting movies anymore GENERALLY. The massive growth is in subscription. THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE with folk only wanting to pay a few dollars to have access to a large library of content. Think Netflix, Amazon etc.
As for Hastings, he would say that! .
Blockbuster you say? Dead because of Netflix. It's that simple. People aren't renting Digital in any great numbers either lol.

Man with an agenda....you can't hide it as much as you hang in the Digital forums!

Hollywood has been in decline for years now. Digital isn't going to save it. You need to get used to constantly shifting titles, exclusives only available on one service and all the rest. Subscription is indeed the future. If your precious Vudu starts to struggle growth wise, it ain't expanding. I mean, do you know what a mess UV is in in all other countries except U.S.A? It's much easier forcfolk to just wait for releases on Netflix, Amazon and soon, ITunes subscription service. Amazon are expanding to include the likes of Shudder, MGM, BFI etc..

It's not difficult to see the way it is heading. In the meantime, I'm sure that Disc, just like the CD compared to MP3 downloads, is going to be around in 15 years. (Experts said downloads would kill it, and now streaming is killing downloads ) 4K Bluray is doing great at this early stage. Not so sure Vudu will still be here.

To summarise, subscribe subscribe subscribe, you might as well start now. I will hang on to my discs, safe in the knowledge that we likely won't be seeing better releases of some great cult/boutique titles for decades.

You still spewing your same bull from across the pond? You have no clue what a "niche" is here in the states and 30+ million is not a niche!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by jcflman

Here's the first half numbers the past 3 years from HMM posted on this forum:

2017 -- $2314.03
2016 -- $2544.02
2015 -- $2714.26


Yes, blu-ray is up 0.2% but overall disc sales (Blu + DVD) are down $230 million from last year. This point last year overall disc was down $170 million which lead to a year down over half a billion. This year will probably be around the same.

At the end of 2012 total disc sales were just under 8.2 billion. After this year they will be around 4.9-5.0 billion. Stores like MovieStop & Hastings closed last year, Sam's Club removed their media sections this year and eBay is closing media driven half.com next month. While the latter two won't have a huge impact they will have one.

I believe overall disc sales just had their worst week ever:



Physical disc sales are down year after year and that's not the fault of the Box Office only. Hopefully Movies Anywhere will launch this year or early next year to unite all the studios and clear up the confusing digital ecosystem for the average consumer. Debate all you want about physical versus digital but in my opinion physical has already lost. There's not enough growth in Blu or 4k to offset the massive losses DVD is sustaining year after year.

People can make up their own minds. I'm just providing some factual numbers and an opinion based on those numbers and the media outlets that keep disappearing. If people want to keep collecting Blu-ray to the end that's cool. Do what you enjoy. Those discs won't evaporate so watch and have fun with them as long as you like. I've been enjoying Vudu for 4 years and expect many more years to come. If some doomsday scenario occurs where I'm forced into a subscription to view my movies I'll either accept it or find an alternative. All I know is physical discs are a thing of the past. Just ask Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, Hastings and on down the line. The studios want to make money and physical is on a steep decline so digital is the alternative.

Typical that you link to a bad week when Bluray has just been up for week after week. It's the first time it's been down in a long while.

Your point about stores closing is missing the point. Everyone is buying off Amazon or another online store these days. I have been for the last ten years. Never set foot inside a store lol. That's what is killing stores.

Sorry if it doesn't fit your agenda, but that's the way it is. Oh, and don't pretend you are on the fence. I already have you Sussed.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SarahS

You still spewing your same bull from across the pond? You have no clue what a "niche" is here in the states and 30+ million is not a niche!

It's already been pointed out to you that it's nowhere near 30 million. Now get back to (IMO) trolling the movie threads.

[jcflman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Typical that you link to a bad week when Bluray has just been up for week after week. It's the first time it's been down in a long while.

Your point about stores closing is missing the point. Everyone is buying off Amazon or another online store these days. I have been for the last ten years. Never set foot inside a store lol. That's what is killing stores.

Sorry if it doesn't fit your agenda, but that's the way it is. Oh, and don't pretend you are on the fence. I already have you Sussed.

That's the most recent week. It was the worst week EVER so it has credibility. Saying it was incredible Blu-ray was up the first half despite the Box Office being down but forgetting to mention it was only 0.2% and overall disc was down $230 million from the previous year is quite funny.

I don't have an agenda. I support digital. I don't post about it every day like you supporting physical and trying to steer people in the wrong direction with incomplete numbers.

When I say I support digital I support subscription & Digital HD through Vudu. If Vudu were to force a subscription in the future I'd accept it or move on. I don't obsess about things like this on a daily basis like some people. I enjoy movies and like owning them but I'm not naive to think physical discs will last forever with the steep decline it has been on for years.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's already been pointed out to you that it's nowhere near 30 million. Now get back to (IMO) trolling the movie threads.

Nothing has been pointed out or proven! In fact I have provided a link to the article!

[Dustin44]

Each individual is going to go with what works best for them. Whether it is disc only, digital only, or both.

Like I have said before, I have a large digital collection now. But I still buy some discs. And the movies I love the most I like to have on disc AND digital.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Even those that support Digital admit they wouldn't pay full price for a film.

I don't really ever pay full price for physical disc's either. I almost always wait for a sale.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

For that reason, I'll opt for physical releases, and redeem digital codes when it suits me, but I won't rely solely or even primarily on the digital distributed versions. I just prefer not to put all of my eggs in a basket that I have no control over. Too many people here are fine doing that, while assuming that nothing could possibly go wrong. For your sake, I hope you are right. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

I think a lot of people here use disc and digital. I don't think there are that many putting all their eggs in the digital basket. But if they do, that is their choice.

I have a large UV collection because I D2D'd a lot of titles on Vudu for $1 each. Then got rid of some discs (kept my favorites, like I said). I was running out of room for all my discs.

Originally Posted by jcflman

I've been enjoying Vudu for 4 years and expect many more years to come. If some doomsday scenario occurs where I'm forced into a subscription to view my movies I'll either accept it or find an alternative.

Same. I first used Vudu about 6 years ago, I believe. But didn't start using it a lot until the past 3 years or so.

Maybe something happens in the future where it does switch to subscription or some digital titles disappear. (Heck, if a title does ever disappear in the future and I really want to see it, I could buy or re-buy the disc. No big deal. )

I am not going to worry or obsess about it every single day. (like some people on here) I am going to enjoy my movies now.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by jcflman

That's the most recent week. It was the worst week EVER so it has credibility. Saying it was incredible Blu-ray was up the first half despite the Box Office being down but forgetting to mention it was only 0.2% and overall disc was down $230 million from the previous year is quite funny.

I don't have an agenda. I support digital. I don't post about it every day like you supporting physical and trying to steer people in the wrong direction with incomplete numbers.

When I say I support digital I support subscription & Digital HD through Vudu. If Vudu were to force a subscription in the future I'd accept it or move on. I don't obsess about things like this on a daily basis like some people. I enjoy movies and like owning them but I'm not naive to think physical discs will last forever with the steep decline it has been on for years.

Disc is going to be down because DVD is a ancient format. It been in decline since 2006. My statement was factual. If someone asked, I would have provided the numbers.

Up is up.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Dustin44

Each individual is going to go with what works best for them. Whether it is disc only, digital only, or both.

Like I have said before, I have a large digital collection now. But I still buy some discs. And the movies I love the most I like to have on disc AND digital.



I don't really ever pay full price for physical disc's either. I almost always wait for a sale.



I think a lot of people here use disc and digital. I don't think there are that many putting all their eggs in the digital basket. But if they do, that is their choice.

I have a large UV collection because I D2D'd a lot of titles on Vudu for $1 each. Then got rid of some discs (kept my favorites, like I said). I was running out of room for all my discs.



Same. I first used Vudu about 6 years ago, I believe. But didn't start using it a lot until the past 3 years or so.

Maybe something happens in the future where it does switch to subscription or some digital titles disappear. (Heck, if a title does ever disappear in the future and I really want to see it, I could buy or re-buy the disc. No big deal. )

I am not going to worry or obsess about it every single day. (like some people on here) I am going to enjoy my movies now.

I couldn't wait for a sale when there is a must own title due. Dunkirk for example.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by jcflman

Physical disc sales are down year after year and that's not the fault of the Box Office only. Hopefully Movies Anywhere will launch this year or early next year to unite all the studios and clear up the confusing digital ecosystem for the average consumer. Debate all you want about physical versus digital but in my opinion physical has already lost. There's not enough growth in Blu or 4k to offset the massive losses DVD is sustaining year after year.

I hope Movies Anywhere will let me buy movies from Amazon that will transfer to VUDU. They have good sales that I will hope continue if they embrace Movies Anywhere. I prefer to have all my movies under one service and that would be VUDU.

[Steedeel]

Movies anywhere?

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Movies anywhere?

It's a new service that is possibly replacing or coexisting with Ultraviolet. Possibly using Disney's KeyChest system. It's already been uncovered that movies from many studios on VUDU are Movies Anywhere enabled. It's being kept a secret.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

It's a new service that is possibly replacing or coexisting with Ultraviolet. Possibly using Disney's KeyChest system. It's already been uncovered that movies from many studios on VUDU are Movies Anywhere enabled. It's being kept a secret.

Ok thanks. Disney is a subscription service in the U.K, just like Netflix. We won't be getting that.

[Reno Fan]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

No, what you are doing is leaving a few facts out to suit your own argument. First of all, Digital HD is not replacing the decline in DVD either. It's not showing the growth it should be at this stage in its life. It's just not. Vudu is a niche still and people are not interested in collecting movies anymore GENERALLY. The massive growth is in subscription. THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE with folk only wanting to pay a few dollars to have access to a large library of content. Think Netflix, Amazon etc.
As for Hastings, he would say that! .
Blockbuster you say? Dead because of Netflix. It's that simple. People aren't renting Digital in any great numbers either lol.

Hollywood has been in decline for years now. Digital isn't going to save it. You need to get used to constantly shifting titles, exclusives only available on one service and all the rest. Subscription is indeed the future. If your precious Vudu starts to struggle growth wise, it ain't expanding. I mean, do you know what a mess UV is in in all other countries except U.S.A? It's much easier forcfolk to just wait for releases on Netflix, Amazon and soon, ITunes subscription service. Amazon are expanding to include the likes of Shudder, MGM, BFI etc..

It's not difficult to see the way it is heading. In the meantime, I'm sure that Disc, just like the CD compared to MP3 downloads, is going to be around in 15 years. (Experts said downloads would kill it, and now streaming is killing downloads ) 4K Bluray is doing great at this early stage. Not so sure Vudu will still be here.

To summarise, subscribe subscribe subscribe, you might as well start now. I will hang on to my discs, safe in the knowledge that we likely won't be seeing better releases of some great cult/boutique titles for decades.

Subscription model works for older titles.

But for newer titles, I doubt that making, say, $0.50 per view is really what the studios want for new titles.

On older titles, where the costs have either been completely covered or written off, $0.50 is better than $0. For a new movie, $0.50 per view may mean costs are not recovered.

More people that I know just watch what is on their favorite streaming service. If it's a new title and not on their service, they will just wait and watch something else.

As a consumer, subscription model is pretty good ... but I doubt that it's enough to bring what people want.

Think about it, what is the majority of the new content on Netflix? Comedy specials? Those aren't exactly large budget affairs.

I would also argue that Netflix is also feasting on what would be direct-to-DVD content or otherwise box office failures. I mean, there is quite a few of new Nicholas Cage and Bruce Willis movies. For the financiers of those movies, $0.50 per view may help them to cut their losses on a failed project.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by Texan26

It's a new service that is possibly replacing or coexisting with Ultraviolet. Possibly using Disney's KeyChest system. It's already been uncovered that movies from many studios on VUDU are Movies Anywhere enabled. It's being kept a secret.

Is there any more information on this? Google brings up nothing.

[zodwriter]

It's all about a healthy balance between both disc and digital. Subscription services will always get the most customers because the vast majority of people are not film collectors and are happy to just enjoy what's available and wait for new monthly content. Personally I subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, Filmstruck and Amazon Prime. All those services offer great exclusives and have something for everyone. However I don't think that subscription will be the only option in the future like Steedeel is worried about. Storefronts like VUDU and DISNEY MOVIES ANYWHERE, iTunes etc will always be around for those who wish to collect digitally. Even if they are bought out by different companies. I think discs will continue to exist for years to come albeit in smaller quantities.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

It's all about a healthy balance between both disc and digital. Subscription services will always get the most customers because the vast majority of people are not film collectors and are happy to just enjoy what's available and wait for new monthly content. Personally I subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, Crunchyroll, Filmstruck and Amazon Prime. All those services offer great exclusives and have something for everyone. However I don't think that subscription will be the only option in the future like Steedeel is worried about. Storefronts like VUDU and DISNEY MOVIE ANYWHERE will always be around for those who wish to collect digitally. Even if they are bought out by different companies. I think discs will continue to exist for years to come albeit in smaller quantities.

I wouldn't say I'm worried about it. That's just the way I think it will go. It's all bad news to me if disc fades away, regardless of how it is distributed.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Reno Fan

Subscription model works for older titles.

But for newer titles, I doubt that making, say, $0.50 per view is really what the studios want for new titles.

On older titles, where the costs have either been completely covered or written off, $0.50 is better than $0. For a new movie, $0.50 per view may mean costs are not recovered.

More people that I know just watch what is on their favorite streaming service. If it's a new title and not on their service, they will just wait and watch something else.

As a consumer, subscription model is pretty good ... but I doubt that it's enough to bring what people want.

Think about it, what is the majority of the new content on Netflix? Comedy specials? Those aren't exactly large budget affairs.

I would also argue that Netflix is also feasting on what would be direct-to-DVD content or otherwise box office failures. I mean, there is quite a few of new Nicholas Cage and Bruce Willis movies. For the financiers of those movies, $0.50 per view may help them to cut their losses on a failed project.

It doesn't matter what the studios want. It's what the masses want that decides things. I see many parallels with the music industry.

[Steedeel]

It looks Like we are going to have a odd situation where the U.K and many other major countries are going to go different ways. Before, we always seem to go the same way as the U.S but now, I think it's going to be subscription much much sooner in the U.K. Like I said, DMA have decided not to release over here. Instead they offer a Disney subscription. BBC created a Digital storefront but people shunned it. I'm convinced they will join forces with ITV and release a streaming subscription service in the future. Even Sky, who are our biggest cable company have their own subscription movie and tv service. It looks like discs and subscription. Maybe a glimpse of your future in the U.S?

If people want to collect Digital here, they have Amazon, ITunes, Sky, Google play, Playstation storefront, X box service whatever it is called :

NONE of those are UV compatible. So, it's basically pick a side.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I wouldn't say I'm worried about it. That's just the way I think it will go. It's all bad news to me if disc fades away, regardless of how it is distributed.

I doubt discs are going to fade away. They will likely be more expensive in the future and have smaller distribution though. I still purchase Blu Rays and the occasional DVD from time to time. It's just that I view disc as more of a special thing nowadays. Streaming has made viewing content so much more convenient and easy. When I purchase a disc it's either because it's not available digitally or it's something I love and want to make sure I have in a tangible form and in as many formats as possible. I also have my Blu Rays and DVDs backed up streaming to my PLEX media server via my Home Network. I will never worry about losing content because everything is available somewhere.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I doubt discs are going to fade away. They will likely be more expensive in the future and have smaller distribution though. I still purchase Blu Rays and the occasional DVD from time to time. It's just that I view disc as more of a special thing nowadays. Streaming has made viewing content so much more convenient and easy. When I purchase a disc it's either because it's not available digitally or it's something I love and want to make sure I have in a tangible form and in as many formats as possible. I also have my Blu Rays and DVDs backed up streaming to my PLEX media server via my Home Network. I will never worry about losing content because everything is available somewhere.

I will follow disc to the bitter enD. After that? I have no idea. The industry doesn't want to give the UK a seamless transition. If I can get the same A/V quality, maybe I would bite but I'm just not feeling it.