Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[nitin]

But hey guys remember that prices were definitely going to be lowered across the board because of the increased shipping rates. And Ruined and Miribeau spent pages trying to tell you guys that anyone believing otherwise was just a troll...

[frakking toaster]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

My favorite part of that rambling mess is DF claiming, "you guys had it a lot easier than you think." Because when people think about what company's titles are easiest to purchase, they obviously think "Code Red."

If purchasing Code Red titles was easy before, I shudder to think of what it will be like now.

McDonald's are using this strategy next. "You guys have had it too easy. Now you'll only be able to buy Big Macs every Sunday night from 3:16 AM to 4:57 AM"

[horroru]

Originally Posted by frakking toaster

McDonald's are using this strategy next. "You guys have had it too easy. Now you'll only be able to buy Big Macs every Sunday night from 3:16 AM to 4:57 AM"

Originally Posted by Dark Force
In terms of Code Red inventory, it's not going to be easily accessible any longer. I mean it’s, it’s not going to be at all these different stores, ah, on the internet. It's, it's, it's not going to be easily accessible because, you know, simply Banana Man is not in the kind of shape that it's going to be spread out all over the place any more. So, it is, it is going to become more of a valuable commodity. That's just the way it is. We're not, you know, trying to do anything intentionally. It's just, you know, the days of being and, you know, people, you guys, a lot of people were complaining but you guys had it a lot easier than you think because, you know, it was all over the place but those days have come to an end because it has to be more simplified and organized so that he can control it and given his situation which is, you know, obviously he, you know, severely de…handicapped until his hand comes back. Correct?.

I know there have been a lot of negative things posted here, but let me post a positive:
We're all getting a FREE MasterClass in

• how to not to run a small business
• how to purposely alienate and antagonize customers
• how to "try" to use some sort of reverse psychology on your customers by stating the problem is with THEM wanting YOUR products - NOT the company promising products but making them frustratingly hard to obtain
• how to respond to customer complaints by using common replies overheard on an 8th-grade playground.

But on a serious positive note, DF could still turn this around by just stopping the weird "hype" crap and professionally explaining to customers how to buy their product once it goes on sale.
It's ok to say "Hey we're short-handed, so the store will only be open 2 days a week, or open these specific hours on these days."
It's not ok to say to customers "Hey you had it easy when you could buy our product, but we're going to make it harder for you now...."

Bill and DF have every right to want more "control" over their product, but their customers have every right to not purchase from them either - based on their replies I don't think they realize they are not doing customers any favors, they are running a business. They don't purchase the rights to a film out out altruism for their customers, they are trying to make money as a business.
My advice to DF would be to start fresh, come up with a reasonable plan moving forward, and get past this unpleasantness. This isn't some wrestling match with your customers, it's about trying to sell movies and make money at it.
If you run a business with customer support, respect and service, loyal customers will reward you back as the other indie labels have demonstrated.
Just my thoughts.

[Christophah Maghen]

What we've been seeing from dark force is nothing new guys.
You know, Bill was doing this crap already so you know, it's just a continuation of sorts , because, ya know, dark force gets to see the behind the scenes sales figures so, you know , this scarcity model and ya know, having the store open at select time is ya know working.

[bsend]

Originally Posted by horroru

It's ok to say "Hey we're short-handed, so the store will only be open 2 days a week, or open these specific hours on these days."
It's not ok to say to customers "Hey you had it easy when you could buy our product, but we're going to make it harder for you now...."

Wouldn't it make the most sense to keep the store open continuously so you don't miss out on sales, and customers can purchase products at their leisure? Your store could have a policy that states "Due to our small operations and limited personnel, our turnaround time for orders is roughly 2 weeks. Please be aware of this timeline when purchasing. We want to give the customer realistic expectations, but will try our best to beat the turn around time stated. We look forward to your business".

Then you would just have a queue of orders to fulfill with your personal policy that you fill by the customer who has been waiting the longest. If your website keeps track of purchases, and you keep track of orders fulfilled, you could see if you are meeting your turnaround time. Then you could work on things like optimizing your shipping center (even if it's your home office). Sort the packaging materials and titles so you limit unnecessary movement, and can quickly ship out titles. If your business is doing so well that you can't keep up, many you enlist the help of a friend and give them adequate compensation for their time.

[horroru]

Originally Posted by bsend

Wouldn't it make the most sense to keep the store open continuously so you don't miss out on sales, and customers can purchase products at their leisure? Your store could have a policy that states "Due to our small operations and limited personnel, our turnaround time for orders is roughly 2 weeks. Please be aware of this timeline when purchasing. We want to give the customer realistic expectations, but will try our best to beat the turn around time stated. We look forward to your business".

Then you would just have a queue of orders to fulfill with your personal policy that you fill by the customer who has been waiting the longest. If your website keeps track of purchases, and you keep track of orders fulfilled, you could see if you are meeting your turnaround time. Then you could work on things like optimizing your shipping center (even if it's your home office). Sort the packaging materials and titles so you limit unnecessary movement, and can quickly ship out titles. If your business is doing so well that you can't keep up, many you enlist the help of a friend and give them adequate compensation for their time.

Yes I agree, I was just giving a conservative example since Bill is dealing with health issues - anything is better than a "mystery time" for a store being open.

[AKNewbie]

Originally Posted by bsend

[Show spoiler]Wouldn't it make the most sense to keep the store open continuously so you don't miss out on sales, and customers can purchase products at their leisure? Your store could have a policy that states "Due to our small operations and limited personnel, our turnaround time for orders is roughly 2 weeks. Please be aware of this timeline when purchasing. We want to give the customer realistic expectations, but will try our best to beat the turn around time stated. We look forward to your business".

Then you would just have a queue of orders to fulfill with your personal policy that you fill by the customer who has been waiting the longest. If your website keeps track of purchases, and you keep track of orders fulfilled, you could see if you are meeting your turnaround time. Then you could work on things like optimizing your shipping center (even if it's your home office). Sort the packaging materials and titles so you limit unnecessary movement, and can quickly ship out titles. If your business is doing so well that you can't keep up, many you enlist the help of a friend and give them adequate compensation for their time.

They also have a dysfunctional supply chain. If BM is just giving them few boxes at a time from his warehouse/wheel-chair-people-bathroom, DF will have an open store with empty shelves and no idea if they can restock. Well the shelves won't be entirely empty, they'll have plenty of HB titles.

For now I think he is coping the only way he knows how, which is running it like a weekly flea-market booth. [You know, you know,... you'll have to come back next weekend after we get (go scrounging for), you know, more stuff to sell, you know].

Not defending this circus show, but their logistics challenges start at the origin. Lots of "opportunities" that need attention to make this work as well as the other boutiques.

[bsend]

Originally Posted by AKNewbie

They also have a dysfunctional supply chain.

That's true too. If all Code Red titles are going through the Dark Force site, they should do one massive shipment from WA to LA. You could fly/drive up there, pack all of the stock into a U-Haul shipping pod, and then have U-Haul send it to the new shipping center. That will take care of the current stock.

If all future stock will only be sold this way, dribbling 200 allotments at a time doesn't make much sense at all.

[The Great Owl]

They should just stop online sales, and, instead, have a brick-and-mortar Code Red/Dark Force store that is open 24 hours a day and located in an abandoned monastery on a mountain top in the Himalayas that is only accessible by a four-day climb in unpredictable sub-freezing weather.

When a customer is two-thirds of the way up and has lost half of his fingers and toes to frostbite, he’ll remember how easy he used to have it.

“Must.... have... the... deleted... four-second... Tanya... Roberts... nude... scene...”

[AKNewbie]

Originally Posted by bsend

That's true too. If all Code Red titles are going through the Dark Force site, they should do one massive shipment from WA to LA. You could fly/drive up there, pack all of the stock into a U-Haul shipping pod, and then have U-Haul send it to the new shipping center. That will take care of the current stock.

If all future stock will only be sold this way, dribbling 200 allotments at a time doesn't make much sense at all.

Move WA inventory to his flooded house. Make that site a second distribution center.
Sell it as giving customers a new option: fecal matter or black mold.
DF can hype that till the cows come home.

Inventory is probably a more convoluted mess than we think. Imagine if those assets involve declared business value/capital, losses or deferment on taxes, loan collateral, etc.

Maybe, Owl's solution is the most workable after all.

[WillieMLF]

Originally Posted by Christophah Maghen

What we've been seeing from dark force is nothing new guys.
You know, Bill was doing this crap already so you know, it's just a continuation of sorts , because, ya know, dark force gets to see the behind the scenes sales figures so, you know , this scarcity model and ya know, having the store open at select time is ya know working.

Yes, nothing new in the least. I've always felt the whole 300 units sold is such BS. Bill is making a killing off of these turds, so why not bring in another snake-oil salesman to help ramp up the neckbeard sodomy. That whining sound you hear, emanating from the DF headquarters where they are working on the newest release, Screams of a Neckbeard at Night.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by AKNewbie

They also have a dysfunctional supply chain. If BM is just giving them few boxes at a time from his warehouse/wheel-chair-people-bathroom, DF will have an open store with empty shelves and no idea if they can restock. Well the shelves won't be entirely empty, they'll have plenty of HB titles.

For now I think he is coping the only way he knows how, which is running it like a weekly flea-market booth. [You know, you know,... you'll have to come back next weekend after we get (go scrounging for), you know, more stuff to sell, you know].

Not defending this circus show, but their logistics challenges start at the origin. Lots of "opportunities" that need attention to make this work as well as the other boutiques.

If they pulled all Bill's stock from wherever it is, they'd need a large space to keep it in, organize and catalogue it, and a person to do all that. Bill is back home, walking, talking more like himself, which is wonderful, but working on that kind of task is just not something he should be doing right now, most particularly given that it could set him back in his recovery. The move away from piecemeal sales is not likely to occur right away, when it comes to old titles, given that necessary limitation.

When it comes to new titles, they can just have the stock delivered to DF, if they wish, right from the get go. But then you have shipping limitations and, given those shipping limitations, they'll probably start entertaining the idea of pre-orders. Bill mentioned something about pre-sales on an item that doesn't even exist. If he's comfortable with that, pre-orders couldn't be far behind.

In any case, with everything Bill and DD are surely working on, trying to fully stock the store with old CR titles just isn't possible at this time. Bill's health should be the first priority and, given that he's always found it easy to put his health on the back burner while pushing forward with his work, we shouldn't be encouraging him to do anything but rest and take care of himself.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by WillieMLF

Yes, nothing new in the least. I've always felt the whole 300 units sold is such BS. Bill is making a killing off of these turds, so why not bring in another snake-oil salesman to help ramp up the neckbeard sodomy. That whining sound you hear, emanating from the DF headquarters where they are working on the newest release, Screams of a Neckbeard at Night.

To be honest, no small/boutique label is making a killing on cult film blu-rays. The upfront cost of licensing, scanning, producing extras and artwork, mastering, and replicating discs runs into the tens of thousands of dollars (Bill said he had to pay $40k alone for the rights to BUTCHER, BAKER, NIGHTMARE MAKER). If you're selling your discs direct for, let's say $23, you might have to sell 2k before you even start making a profit.

[kraven]

BBNM Bill owns outright. Not the example to use when taking about cost for films that are licensed.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by indravayu

To be honest, no small/boutique label is making a killing on cult film blu-rays. The upfront cost of licensing, scanning, producing extras and artwork, mastering, and replicating discs runs into the tens of thousands of dollars (Bill said he had to pay $40k alone for the rights to BUTCHER, BAKER, NIGHTMARE MAKER). If you're selling your discs direct for, let's say $23, you might have to sell 2k before you even start making a profit.

$42,000 for BBNM, after the license, to buy the whole thing.... And still, many of you question why some on these boards harbor abiding appreciation for the man, for all he has done, in spite of the trickle-out sales model he's used forever. He's not homeless or even poor, but he's not rolling in it either. He keeps doing the job, where many would have quit, and he does it well. If we're lucky, DD will continue doing the job as well, in spite of all those issues, rights and costs and profits and losses not quite adding up every time....

But wait, saying all of that makes me a shill, doesn't it? We're apparently all supposed to hate our label owners. God knows why but I certainly don't.

[mca213]

Originally Posted by miribeau

But wait, saying all of that makes me a shill, doesn't it? .

Nope, but youre a shill regardless.

[darkness2918]

Originally Posted by miribeau

$42,000 for BBNM, after the license, to buy the whole thing.... And still, many of you question why some on these boards harbor abiding appreciation for the man, for all he has done, in spite of the trickle-out sales model he's used forever. He's not homeless or even poor, but he's not rolling in it either. He keeps doing the job, where many would have quit, and he does it well. If we're lucky, DD will continue doing the job as well, in spite of all those issues, rights and costs and profits and losses not quite adding up every time....

But wait, saying all of that makes me a shill, doesn't it? We're apparently all supposed to hate our label owners. God knows why but I certainly don't.

Wrong. You don't see people hating on Scorpion or Vinegar Syndrome for example. You know why that is? Cause they know how to properly run a business without all the unnecessary stuff DF tries to pull.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by kraven

BBNM Bill owns outright. Not the example to use when taking about cost for films that are licensed.

The point is, he paid $40k for it (according to him), which requires him (with all the other costs involved) to sell several thousand before he is in the profit zone.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by darkness2918

Wrong. You don't see people hating on Scorpion or Vinegar Syndrome for example. You know why that is? Cause they know how to properly run a business without all the unnecessary stuff DF tries to pull.

The weirdest part is that CR and DF have worked with Kino before, so why not just send all their movies to them if they can't keep up? Of course, that would ruin their artificial scarcity model..

[nitin]

I don’t agree with Maghen at the best of times, but I think he is right about this, rightly or wrongly Bill/DeFalco clearly think this model makes them the most profit (and the recent sellouts would seem to confirm that).

I think the model is shit but it’s not my business to run. As a customer, I am not playing their stupid games, but obviously enough people are despite all the whinging.