Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It looks Like we are going to have a odd situation where the U.K and many other major countries are going to go different ways. Before, we always seem to go the same way as the U.S but now, I think it's going to be subscription much much sooner in the U.K. Like I said, DMA have decided not to release over here. Instead they offer a Disney subscription. BBC created a Digital storefront but people shunned it. I'm convinced they will join forces with ITV and release a streaming subscription service in the future. Even Sky, who are our biggest cable company have their own subscription movie and tv service. It looks like discs and subscription. Maybe a glimpse of your future in the U.S?

If people want to collect Digital here, they have Amazon, ITunes, Sky, Google play, Playstation storefront, X box service whatever it is called :

NONE of those are UV compatible. So, it's basically pick a side.

So which is it, us going our separate ways or a glimpse at the future in the U.S.?

Seems more like the former, unless Digital HD purchases can somehow find more popularity in the U.K. someday.

This is a strange debate, mostly people having to defend digital against Steedeel, who is admitting more and more that the U.K.'s Digital HD landscape looks very little like it does in the U.S. these days.

Disney Movies Anywhere doesn't exist in the U.K. and VUDU doesn't exist in the U.K., which are both key factors in the appeal of Digital HD in the U.S.

It really does start to seem that we're comparing apples to oranges in this debate, since we don't have access to the same services.

I use DMA, VUDU, iTunes and Amazon Video, not just one service. So I'm not putting all my eggs into one basket. But really, all of those services are pretty successful in the U.S., so I'm not too worried about any of them.

I also use subscriptions like Netflix and Amazon Prime, but I mostly have those for their original programming and other TV shows they include. I'd never rely on subscriptions for movies. Sure, I'll watch movies on them occasionally, but I mostly watch my own movies on my own time. Subscription is a supplement. It could never be the only thing I do.

So thankfully there are still many places to buy movies for both physical media (with digital copy) and digital-only.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

So which is it, us going our separate ways or a glimpse at the future in the U.S.?

Seems more like the former, unless Digital HD purchases can somehow find more popularity in the U.K. someday.

This is a strange debate, mostly people having to defend digital against Steedeel, who is admitting more and more that the U.K.'s Digital HD landscape looks very little like it does in the U.S. these days.

Disney Movies Anywhere doesn't exist in the U.K. and VUDU doesn't exist in the U.K., which are both key factors in the appeal of Digital HD in the U.S.

It really does start to seem that we're comparing apples to oranges in this debate, since we don't have access to the same services.

I use DMA, VUDU, iTunes and Amazon Video, not just one service. So I'm not putting all my eggs into one basket. But really, all of those services are pretty successful in the U.S., so I'm not too worried about any of them.

I also use subscriptions like Netflix and Amazon Prime, but I mostly have those for their original programming and other TV shows they include. I'd never rely on subscriptions for movies. Sure, I'll watch movies on them occasionally, but I mostly watch my own movies on my own time. Subscription is a supplement. It could never be the only thing I do.

So thankfully there are still many places to buy movies for both physical media (with digital copy) and digital-only.

It depends how you define successful. Digital isn't exactly making up for DVD declines is it? Only subscription is doing that.

What I mean by my taste of the future is you guys could be getting a early glimpse (via the U.K) of how things could go if Digital HD drops significantly. Nowadays, people can stream new releases for £10 per month music wise. Films have lost their value with Netflix and Prime, I see the industry going in that direction is a few short years.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It depends how you define successful. Digital isn't exactly making up for DVD declines is it? Only subscription is doing that.

What I mean by my taste of the future is you guys could be getting a early glimpse (via the U.K) of how things could go if Digital HD drops significantly. Nowadays, people can stream new releases for £10 per month music wise. Films have lost their value with Netflix and Prime, I see the industry going in that direction [in] a few short years.

In the U.K., you should say. But of course, you're predicting that the landscape in the U.S. will follow suit, even though the digital landscape in the U.S. is different from the U.K.

I'm not one of the ones here who talks industry revenue charts and things like that, so I won't debate on that front. I don't research the numbers or compare digital revenue to physical media revenue. I'm not saying Digital HD is outdoing physical media in sales. I'm just saying the various services I mentioned are doing well for themselves. Nothing more.

[cpr3584]

It shocks me that the digital supporters can watch a movie in 25% of the quality of a blu ray disc. Sure I understand that most people think its "good enough" but the differences are very profound. I watched Rogue One on blu ray last night and the bit rate was nearly 40 mbps. The streamed version is what? 10mbps? For old movies- you can't tell much of a difference on disc because an old movie is still going to look like an old movie.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

It shocks me that the digital supporters can watch a movie in 25% of the quality of a blu ray disc. Sure I understand that most people think its "good enough" but the differences are very profound. I watched Rogue One on blu ray last night and the bit rate was nearly 40 mbps. The streamed version is what? 10mbps? For old movies- you can't tell much of a difference on disc because an old movie is still going to look like an old movie.

Yeah, it baffles me too. Not to mention the far inferior audio options.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

In the U.K., you should say. But of course, you're predicting that the landscape in the U.S. will follow suit, even though the digital landscape in the U.S. is different from the U.K.

I'm not one of the ones here who talks industry revenue charts and things like that, so I won't debate on that front. I don't research the numbers or compare digital revenue to physical media revenue. I'm not saying Digital HD is outdoing physical media in sales. I'm just saying the various services I mentioned are doing well for themselves. Nothing more.

How do you know they are doing well for themselves? If you don't hsve access to figures?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by cpr3584

It shocks me that the digital supporters can watch a movie in 25% of the quality of a blu ray disc. Sure I understand that most people think its "good enough" but the differences are very profound. I watched Rogue One on blu ray last night and the bit rate was nearly 40 mbps. The streamed version is what? 10mbps? For old movies- you can't tell much of a difference on disc because an old movie is still going to look like an old movie.

Are you just comparing bitrates, or are you actually comparing Blu-ray to Digital HD with your own eyes? The visible differences are almost negligible (IMO). Every year, Digital HD encodes get better. I don't care what the bitrates are. I trust my own eyes.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, it baffles me too. Not to mention the far inferior audio options.

VUDU has Dolby Atmos and Apple TV 4 has 7.1 audio. I'm not saying it's not inferior (since it's compressed), but it's on the rise. Digital keeps getting better. A few years ago, when I streamed on Amazon, I thought the video quality was crappy. Now it's pretty much equal to or even better than VUDU (IMO).

Originally Posted by Steedeel

How do you know they are doing well for themselves? If you don't [have] access to figures?

Others provide figures, so I don't have to. I'm not writing a thesis paper on Digital HD revenue, and those figures don't really interest me much, so I don't research those things. You can tell that VUDU is successful when they give out a first-come-first-serve coupon code, and it runs out in a day. Also, there are plenty of improvements and updates and new features. A sinking ship doesn't typically keep getting better. It fades into obscurity like CinemaNow.

So I guess the short answer is that I observe.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Are you just comparing bitrates, or are you actually comparing Blu-ray to Digital HD with your own eyes? The visible differences are almost negligible (IMO). Every year, Digital HD encodes get better. I don't care what the bitrates are. I trust my own eyes.



VUDU has Dolby Atmos and Apple TV 4 has 7.1 audio. I'm not saying it's not inferior (since it's compressed), but it's on the rise. Digital keeps getting better. A few years ago, when I streamed on Amazon, I thought the video quality was crappy. Now it's pretty much equal to or even better than VUDU (IMO).



Others provide figures, so I don't have to. I'm not writing a thesis paper on Digital HD revenue, and those figures don't really interest me much, so I don't research those things. You can tell that VUDU is successful when they give out a first-come-first-serve coupon code, and it runs out in a day. Also, there are plenty of improvements and updates and new features. A sinking ship doesn't typically keep getting better. It fades into obscurity like CinemaNow.

So I guess the short answer is that I observe.

But you mentioned several services, not just Vudu.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But you mentioned several services, not just Vudu.

But I mentioned how Amazon has exponentially improved its playback quality and Apple TV has 7.1 audio.

Plus DMA is said to be adding 4K to coincide with the release of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 on 4K BD. And there's a rumored Apple TV 5 to be released later this year. On top of that, both Amazon Video (I know it also supports subscriptions) and VUDU are getting apps for the Apple TV this year.

All sounds like good news to me.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

Is there any more information on this? Google brings up nothing.

Nothing official has been released. If you keep up with Zu's daily VUDU reports (https://plus.google.com/u/0/communit...1-a197cba9e950) there has been movies being shown now as Movies Anywhere enabled. I think it's all the Ultraviolet movies. There's also the back cover of the Kong Skull Island blu-ray that mentions Movies Anywhere but not Ultraviolet. There's also been other signs like Amazon showing Touchstone movies as Disney Movies Anywhere titles.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Nothing official has been released. If you keep up with Zu's daily VUDU reports (https://plus.google.com/u/0/communit...1-a197cba9e950) there has been movies being shown now as Movies Anywhere enabled. I think it's all the Ultraviolet movies. There's also the back cover of the Kong Skull Island blu-ray that mentions Movies Anywhere but not Ultraviolet. There's also been other signs like Amazon showing Touchstone movies as Disney Movies Anywhere titles.

Digital definitely needs to change so that wherever you buy a movie, you have it on several services like DMA. The way it is now is the equivalent of having to own different dvd players to play different movies. That has to change. It will also bring about competition among the digital storefronts.

[BlakkMajik3000]

I'm wondering if we'll see the same transition with movies as we saw with music. First disc, DRM digital, DRM-Free digital, and finally subscription.

I'm sure the studios are interested in skipping the DRM-Free digital purchase step.

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Nothing official has been released. If you keep up with Zu's daily VUDU reports (https://plus.google.com/u/0/communit...1-a197cba9e950) there has been movies being shown now as Movies Anywhere enabled. I think it's all the Ultraviolet movies. There's also the back cover of the Kong Skull Island blu-ray that mentions Movies Anywhere but not Ultraviolet. There's also been other signs like Amazon showing Touchstone movies as Disney Movies Anywhere titles.

There is a push to rename UltraViolet to Digital HD because consumers didn't understand what UV meant apparently. I don't think these movies are going to be put into a central service that works everywhere

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

There is a push to rename UltraViolet to Digital HD because consumers didn't understand what UV meant apparently. I don't think these movies are going to be put into a central service that works everywhere

That seems likely. As much as I'd love to see something like DMA that gathers up titles you've purchased from every studio, it sounds like a pipe dream. Again, I hope it happens, but I won't hold my breath.

[Zu Nim]

UV is not being renamed Digital HD. Digital HD is an industry term for HD ownership and has been for years. Fox even tried to register a trademark for it briefly. That's what they've been using for consumer recognition and why you don't see UltraViolet on the front of discs anymore.

Also, Movies Anywhere is not a pipe dream. Non-public info is out there. Or as mentioned above, the back of Kong: Skull Island has info if you read between the lines.

In 2011, Warner was the first to have a UV movie redemption and has not had any other redemptions. But since 2015 Warner's CEO has been hot to join KeyChest/DMA. Now check out the fine print (emphasis mine):

DIGITAL MOVIE OFFER TERMS: Consumer must reside in the U.S. and register for a digital retailer account with any digital locker service listed at https://www.myuv.com/faq (e.g., UltraViolet).

• UltraViolet is now only an example (e.g.) of a digital locker service. Not a digital retailer but a digital locker service.
• Prior Warner Blu-rays specifically reference uvvu.com and they don't any longer. The wb.com link is under Warner's control and easy to change, unlike uvvu.com.
• It's not even Digital HD now, it's digital movie.
• There's no UV logo or color scheme anywhere to be found.

Touchstone/Hollywood should be part of Movies Anywhere or whatever the final brand name is. Nothing's ever really final until it's released to the public. Was it was supposed to go live with Kong: Skull Island but got pushed back? Now I wonder if there will be a big splash to go along with a new Apple TV this fall. Amazon and Vudu will both go live on Apple TV at that point, too. Something to consider.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

I'm wondering if we'll see the same transition with movies as we saw with music. First disc, DRM digital, DRM-Free digital, and finally subscription.

I'm sure the studios are interested in skipping the DRM-Free digital purchase step.

As everyone knows, that is exactly what I think will happen. The younger generation will demand it. The studios won't have a choice, neither will we. That's why I am clinging on to disc. Owning discs or buying any media is seen as old fashioned now. I think they will still show big movies but it will be a top tier package that gets them first. Whatever way they work it, subscription is coming.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

UV is not being renamed Digital HD. Digital HD is an industry term for HD ownership and has been for years. Fox even tried to register a trademark for it briefly. That's what they've been using for consumer recognition and why you don't see UltraViolet on the front of discs anymore.

Also, Movies Anywhere is not a pipe dream. Non-public info is out there. Or as mentioned above, the back of Kong: Skull Island has info if you read between the lines.

In 2011, Warner was the first to have a UV movie redemption and has not had any other redemptions. But since 2015 Warner's CEO has been hot to join KeyChest/DMA. Now check out the fine print (emphasis mine):

• UltraViolet is now only an example (e.g.) of a digital locker service. Not a digital retailer but a digital locker service.
• Prior Warner Blu-rays specifically reference uvvu.com and they don't any longer. The wb.com link is under Warner's control and easy to change, unlike uvvu.com.
• It's not even Digital HD now, it's digital movie.
• There's no UV logo or color scheme anywhere to be found.

Touchstone/Hollywood should be part of Movies Anywhere or whatever the final brand name is. Nothing's ever really final until it's released to the public. Was it was supposed to go live with Kong: Skull Island but got pushed back? Now I wonder if there will be a big splash to go along with a new Apple TV this fall. Amazon and Vudu will both go live on Apple TV at that point, too. Something to consider.

I think the digital part is because some titles in the U.K are only available in SD and I think it was causing them some grief. I presume it was the same for Germany, Canada, Australia etc..

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

There is a push to rename UltraViolet to Digital HD because consumers didn't understand what UV meant apparently. I don't think these movies are going to be put into a central service that works everywhere

Well, there isn't any info showing up in Google search.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

As everyone knows, that is exactly what I think will happen. The younger generation will demand it. The studios won't have a choice, neither will we. That's why I am clinging on to disc. Owning discs or buying any media is seen as old fashioned now. I think they will still show big movies but it will be a top tier package that gets them first. Whatever way they work it, subscription is coming.

We already have subscription for movies. It's Netflix and Amazon Prime here in the states. You think iTunes and Vudu will become a subscription model like Amazon Prime does it where you have a limited choice of movies and TV shows or TV seasons that you have access to with a subscription but if you want to have access to the others you must rent or buy those whether you have a subscription or not?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PCFan

We already have subscription for movies. It's Netflix and Amazon Prime here in the states. You think iTunes and Vudu will become a subscription model like Amazon Prime does it where you have a limited choice of movies and TV shows or TV seasons that you have access to with a subscription but if you want to have access to the others you must rent or buy those whether you have a subscription or not?

No, I think there will be 3 tiers. One with ads that gets films after a certain time frame. The middle one that will be a pay service with no ads that gets new releases six months after cinema and a final tier that will offer new releases just weeks afte cinema, maybe in 4K as opposed to regular HD for the other two. Something like that anyway. Purchases will still be there but most won't buy.
I also see exclusives for Amazon, ITunes, Google etc..
In other words, only exclusives will differentiate services.