The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As the 2-perf frames are directly atop each other there’s no way to cover up or crop out the splices as with other formats. The physical editing is done using these extra frames on the OG negative, so when they run off an IP or separations etc they have to basically keep stopping the printing before the physical splice appears, wind the negative on to the next frame after the splice, then resume printing. If you think about it, this ‘jumps over’ the edit point so that no such artefacts are visible. And you’re not losing any frames that were meant to be seen, the additional handles are there solely for this purpose. (65mm had similar issues with the proximity of frames, RAH noted that My Fair Lady had originally been cut in this ‘Techniscope’ way.)

This means that doing a home video transfer of the negative would also need similar diligence applied as the extra frames would be present, so the film would need to be digitally conformed using a reference source.

Ah, okay, I see. Thanks Geoff. After re-reading your earlier post I think I understand now. So 16mm and 65mm always have the extra frames tacked on the ends when they’re A/B rolled, as do some variants of 35mm. Basically any time the frames are edge to edge. So then whenever a movie was A/B rolled it always had extra frames on the ends of each cut, otherwise the black leader wouldn’t have anything to be glued to in order to hide the splice.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Ah, okay, I see. Thanks Geoff. After re-reading your earlier post I think I understand now. So 16mm and 65mm always have the extra frames tacked on the ends when they’re A/B rolled, as do some variants of 35mm. Basically any time the frames are edge to edge. So then whenever a movie was A/B rolled it always had extra frames on the ends of each cut, otherwise the black leader wouldn’t have anything to be glued to in order to hide the splice.

Techniscope cutting and A/B rolling are not exclusive to each other. It's true that A/B rolls (or Auto Select) usually accompanied Techniscope cutting, but not the other way around, i.e. an A/B neg cut for most formats didn't have Techniscope cutting applied.

16mm is actually cut in 'checkerboard' fashion to A/B rolls, whereby every single cut is alternated across two rolls to negate the splices, whereas 4-perf 35 and 65 typically reserve the A/B (or Auto Select) aspect for the fades and dissolves only.

[Acer2010]

Has anyone had ANY freezing problems with the 4K disc?

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

Has anyone had ANY freezing problems with the 4K disc?

Not me.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

EU cut is shit. It shouldn’t exist.

But it does, and some care about alternate cuts and film history.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

Has anyone had ANY freezing problems with the 4K disc?

Jack Torrance did.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Techniscope cutting and A/B rolling are not exclusive to each other. It's true that A/B rolls (or Auto Select) usually accompanied Techniscope cutting, but not the other way around, i.e. an A/B neg cut for most formats didn't have Techniscope cutting applied.

If I understand this correctly, Techniscope cutting and A/B rolling (in some cases) are two distinct ways to hide splices. And Techniscope cutting in and of itself involves just one piece of film, with every cut having an extra frame on each end of the cut that would be removed later. So the A/B rolling that accompanies this method is only used for the fades and dissolves, correct? Never for hiding splices since the Techniscope cutting already takes care of that.

And if A/B rolling usually accompanied Techniscope cutting, what about the instances when it didn’t accompany it? Does this mean all the transitions were done optically and didn’t use first gen material?

And what’s even the point of Techniscope cutting to hide splices when you can just A/B roll every cut? Or is A/B rolling more of a b*tch to deal with than Techniscope cutting?

Originally Posted by Geoff D

16mm is actually cut in 'checkerboard' fashion to A/B rolls, whereby every single cut is alternated across two rolls to negate the splices, whereas 4-perf 35 and 65 typically reserve the A/B (or Auto Select) aspect for the fades and dissolves only.

Yeah, this checkerboard method is what I thought A/B rolling was all about until you pointed out that it’s also sometimes only used for fades and dissolves with first gen material. For the shows that only used A/B rolling for transitions, was there also a B roll that ran alongside the A roll that was composed only of black leader for the entire length of the A roll except for those instances when there were fades/dissolves?

Also, why does 65mm typically only reserve B-rolling for fades and dissolves? Since 65mm has the frames literally edge to edge, I would think the splices would need to be hidden.

Also wanted to say thanks for your replies thus far. Really appreciate you taking the time to answer.

[Nosferatu31]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

Has anyone had ANY freezing problems with the 4K disc?

Nope. I've watched my copy at least four times since it was released with no issues. I have the Sony X700.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

If I understand this correctly

Technicolor were big on trying to do things with a single strand negative that would otherwise take two rolls to achieve. Techniscope cutting was one such innovation and Auto Select was another, that being their equivalent of A/B rolls where they put the entirety of the two shots to be dissolved/overlapped on the same negative and ran the neg back and forth when printing. As they had their own unique system for creating release prints (dye transfer) they were seeking to maximise not only quality but also practicality, as a single strand negative is easier to handle than two.

A/B rolling/Auto Select for 35 and up was primarily designed to overcome the problem of poor quality opticals rather than hiding splices. 65mm frames are very close together but they still have a little bit of leeway, I’ve overplayed how close they are compared to 2-perf 35mm as that genuinely gives you no room at all between frames, so for 65mm shows the A/B or Auto Select system was for dealing with fades and dissolves.

Basically, I’ve muddled the point here somewhat. 16mm is where ‘checkerboard’ A/B editing, literally alternating every cut across two negatives (inc. black leader), is used to hide splices. For general 35mm and 65mm usage then any mention of A/B editing strictly deals with encoding the fades and dissolves, not ‘checkerboard’ editing, not even for 2-perf 35mm Techniscope. That instead used those extra frames to hide the edit points. Cutting 65mm in this ‘Techniscope’ fashion is rare, but RAH has often noted the example of My Fair Lady as mentioned.

[The Admiral]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

EU cut is shit. It shouldn’t exist.

Yes but the Laserdisc release of the European cut looks far better than the 4K Blu-ray of the US cut, which should be thrown into the cat litter box.

Only teasing

[Acer2010]

Originally Posted by Nosferatu31

Nope. I've watched my copy at least four times since it was released with no issues. I have the Sony X700.

The first few times I've watched the 4K disc of THE SHINING, there were NO problems, then last October, it froze when Tony Burton walks into the gas station to answer the phone (it was Scatman Crothers calling about renting a snowcat). Then it froze again before Jack Nicholson came up behind Shelley Duvall as she was reading the papers that said, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."

I cleaned that disc and played it in the same spots where they froze; I didn't pause it myself at all, and everything was fine. I mean, how can the disc go from working fine to not working fine at all?

[Nitroboy]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

Has anyone had ANY freezing problems with the 4K disc?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Nitroboy

Played it on my X700 today...
Audio drifted more and more out of sync, until it froze when Wendy goes through Jack's writings. Stopped the disc, and put it back in and resumed the movie, now the audio was in sync, but slowly drifted again until the movie ended...

First time ever experiencing a freeze, and first time experiencing audio sync issues.

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by The Admiral

Yes but the Laserdisc release of the European cut looks far better than the 4K Blu-ray of the US cut, which should be thrown into the cat litter box.

Only teasing

UHD trumps the LaserDisc on this one.

[SpazeBlue]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

UHD trumps the LaserDisc on this one.

[SlasherMyers]

Down to $9.99, ordered along with Lost Boys. To more '80s classics on 4K on the 'lection

[Hindustani]

THE SHINING for $9.99

finally took the plunge.

now waiting for the GIANT to get at $10.

[storythecorgi]

Couldn't resist the price point - bought mine today at Best Buy.

[rroeder]

I admire your resolve your in for a treat, probably my favorite UHD. Gonna do my annual viewing this week along w Doctor Sleep oh yeah!

[Telemachus]

The price is finally right, time to upgrade that old disc (actually have the HDDVD and the BD), I never had a problem with the old one but who can pass on $10 for UHD/BD/Digital for the best horror film of all time

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

... who can pass on $10 for UHD/BD/Digital for the best horror film of all time

A tenner for The Evil Dead really is a bargain.