Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

It’s a silly argument, food is a necessity, BD and 4KBD is not. Discussing food and relating physical media to food is a silly discussion.

food is a necessity, but eating out is a choice and what to eat when someone decides to out is also a choice. Entertainment is also a necessity and how one decides to be entertained is a choice.

Though the point you’re trying to make here we already discussed it in the other thread, and you lost the previous debate about this same topic between you and I in the other thread. You ignored my points, valid arguments, and questions I asked in the other thread.

It was clear in the other thread that you’re older age and your attachment to physical media from youth clouds your judgmentjudgement, you seem to strongly believe this fantasy that BD and 4KBD will live on strongly decades from now into the future after Boomers and Gen X have left this earth, through Gen Z and Gen Alpha, when the current statically data in against your view. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are not overly interested in BD and 4KBD physical media, they haven’t gravitated to it and embraced it like they have with vinyl. Your entire argument isn’t built on facts, it’s simply your opinion which doesn’t win an argument that Gen Z and Gen Alpha in future might become more interested in BD and 4K BD like they have with vinyl. For you to have an actual counter argument that wins the debate, you need to present facts outlining how the BD and 4K BD market will remain viable and sustainable when Boomers and Gen X are no longer contributing their money to the market when the majority of them pass away.

lol
I am old but it beats being young and ignorant.

I never said they will be "strong" movie purchases. Like I said they where never "strong" most people have always went with the cheapest way to waste time and that has never been buying copies of films, even titles that broke records they where only in the 10's of millions even though there where hundreds of millions of households and billions of people.

You are also missing if a content owner thinks it can sell 10M copies they will make 10M copies and it will cost them 10M*x where x is the cost per disk for replication if the owner thinks he can only sell 1k copies then all he needs to do is replicate 1k copies so it will cost them almost 0.00001 as much. For digital ESt that is not the case, for apple/voodoo/K it will cost tem the same amount if many people are buying many copies or not so they need ever increasing sales to keep the the servers and network maintenance as well as paying the electricity bills.

So like with LD back in the day or records today no matter how small the market is the market will always exist as long as there are people willing to buy because there will always be companies willing to go after these small fishes.

As for me being fixed to old tech, I am sure there is a lot more cutting edge tech in my home than yours. But I also feel I know the difference between "cutting edge" (new better tech ready for prime time) and "bleeding edge" (new tech with issues that dumb people buy because it is new). and yes I am a fan of physical media but that is not because I am old and it is all I knew as a kid (when I was a kid there was no physical media you just watched what was playing when it was playing at home or in theatres) but because UHD BD is the cutting edge of movie watching at home. I am sure everyone here knows I am active in the K threads and not just there to troll, but I am there in case one day they will have something “Better” than UHD BD.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by stonesfan129

So what's the deal with this and Tombstone constantly selling out? Are scalpers just cleaning out entire inventories then flipping these? My buddy ordered both when they initially released and he has had multiple orders delayed, then canceled by Amazon, Walmart and B&N.

The Atomic Store has Tombstone 4K for $39.99 right now. If you order this item only they charge almost $5 shipping. Grand total with tax would be about $48.

I ordered this and two other titles and I got free shipping. It appears that their free shipping threshold is $100.

https://www.atomicmoviestore.com/pro...b&_ss=e&_v=1.0

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I looked for KOH but I'm not upgrading my Blu for Scalper prices.

I paid $55.99 for the steelbook plus tax. Not cheap, but not crazy scalper high, either.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

food is a necessity, but eating out is a choice and what to eat when someone decides to out is also a choice. Entertainment is also a necessity and how one decides to be entertained is a choice.

A choice that you keep refusing to acknowledge that Gen Z and Alpha likely won’t make when it comes to enough of their generations taking up collecting BD and 4K BD physical media for it to survive.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

lol
I am old but it beats being young and ignorant.

I never said they will be "strong" movie purchases. Like I said they where never "strong" most people have always went with the cheapest way to waste time and that has never been buying copies of films, even titles that broke records they where only in the 10's of millions even though there where hundreds of millions of households and billions of people.

You are also missing if a content owner thinks it can sell 10M copies they will make 10M copies and it will cost them 10M*x where x is the cost per disk for replication if the owner thinks he can only sell 1k copies then all he needs to do is replicate 1k copies so it will cost them almost 0.00001 as much. For digital ESt that is not the case, for apple/voodoo/K it will cost tem the same amount if many people are buying many copies or not so they need ever increasing sales to keep the the servers and network maintenance as well as paying the electricity bills.

Who’s young and ignorant about collecting Blu-rays and 4K Blu-rays? Me, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, all of the above? Why?

I’m a collector like most people on here, the only difference between you and I is I’m a millennial in my 40s and you’re older in the Gen X or boomer generation, I don’t have my head buried in the sand, and I understand the Gen Z and Gen Alpha generations clearly better than you.

In this debate across 2 threads now I would make the claim that the only person with ignorant views about this topic is yourself, and I already stated why in the other thread, because you think like a biased boomer or Gen X physical media collector who was a kid in the 70s that has an attachment to physical media from living through that era during your youth, you think like a boomer or Gen X person that is fond of physical media, instead of thinking like people in the Gen Z or Gen Alpha generations.

Your biggest issue in this entire discussion has been that you’re arguments are fuelled by emotion but they lack logic and reason, you have refused to acknowledge many of my points as being valid arguments, and haven’t answered questions because you know it would lead to you conceding.

Edit I already destroyed your outdated view that you think is a valid argument when it’s not about how you think collecting has always been a niche so that’s how it will survive, which you ignored:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=198

Originally Posted by Anthony P

So like with LD back in the day or records today no matter how small the market is the market will always exist as long as there are people willing to buy because there will always be companies willing to go after these small fishes.

I disagree on that for the BD and 4K BD market, the onus is on you to demonstrate how in practice since you’re making the claim? Again you have ignored and refused to answer the question, and have responded in the way you always do with a whole bunch of nothing instead. The previous discussion was about Blu-ray player manufacturing coming to an end, the player market has declined rapidly and there is enough evidence to put forth an argument that we will see manufacturing cease at some stage over the next 25 years or much sooner. Boomers and Gen X spend a significant amount of money on BD and 4K physical media, I would make the claim that these 2 generations make up more than 50% of the revenue the industry currently receives for BD and 4K BD disc and player sales. We can all see the signs that this hobby of collecting BD and 4K BD is starting to struggle and it’s facing some difficult challenges. Here’s where you need to answer the question or start agreeing with my comments and conceding if you can’t. Explain how the BD and 4K BD market will be able to be sustainably maintained long term when the majority of boomers pass away over the next 25 years and a lot of people in Gen X do to, so that it’s still capable of working, functioning, and existing successfully so that it’s economically viable? For every death of a boomer and Gen X BD/4KBD physical media collector there’s not going to be a person from Gen Z or Gen Alpha that takes up collecting to make up for the lost revenue.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

As for me being fixed to old tech, I am sure there is a lot more cutting edge tech in my home than yours. But I also feel I know the difference between "cutting edge" (new better tech ready for prime time) and "bleeding edge" (new tech with issues that dumb people buy because it is new). and yes I am a fan of physical media but that is not because I am old and it is all I knew as a kid (when I was a kid there was no physical media you just watched what was playing when it was playing at home or in theatres) but because UHD BD is the cutting edge of movie watching at home. I am sure everyone here knows I am active in the K threads and not just there to troll, but I am there in case one day they will have something “Better” than UHD BD.

You’ve got no real counterarguments so this is now what you are resorting to, a pissing contest? You have no idea what I have in my home. You may not be a troll, but you sure do like being stubborn and arguing for the sake of it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

A choice that you keep refusing to acknowledge that Gen Z and Alpha likely won’t make when it comes to enough of their generations taking up collecting BD and 4K BD physical media for it to survive.



Who’s young and ignorant about collecting Blu-rays and 4K Blu-rays? Me, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, all of the above? Why?

I’m a collector like most people on here, the only different between you and I is I’m a millennial in my 40s and you’re older in the Gen X or boomer generation, and I understand the Gen Z and Gen Alpha generations clearly better than you.

In this debate across 2 threads now I would make the claim that the only person with ignorant views about this topic is yourself, and I already stated why in the other thread, because you think like I biased boomer or Gen X physical media collector who was a kid in the 70s that has an attachment to physical media from living through that era during your youth, you think like a boomer or Gen X person that is fond of physical media, instead of thinking like people in the Gen Z or Gen Alpha generations.

Your biggest issue in this entire discussion has been that you’re arguments are fuelled by emotion but they lack logic and reason, you have refused to acknowledge many of my points as being valid arguments, and haven’t answered questions because you know it would lead to you conceding.



Again you have ignored and refused to answer the question, and have responded in the way you always do with a whole bunch of nothing instead. The previous discussion was about Blu-ray player manufacturing coming to an end, the player market has declined rapidly and there is enough evidence to put forth an argument that we will see manufacturing cease at some stage over the next 25 years or much sooner. Boomers and Gen X spend a significant amount of money on BD and 4K physical media, I would make the claim that these 2 generations make up more than 50% of the revenue the industry currently receives for BD and 4K BD disc and player sales. We can all see the signs that this hobby of collecting BD and 4K BD is starting to struggle and it’s facing some difficult challenges. Here’s where you need to answer the question or started agreeing with my comments and conceding if you can’t. Explain how the BD and 4K BD market will be able to maintain itself when the majority of boomers pass away over next 25 years and a lot of people in Gen X do to, so that it’s still capable of working successfully? For every boomer and Gen X death there’s not going to be a person from Gen Z or Gen Alpha that takes up collecting to make up for the lost revenue.



You’ve got no real counter arguments so this is now what you are resorting to, a pissing contest? You have no idea what I have in my home. You may not be a troll, but you sure do like being stubborn and arguing for the sake of it.

The thing is, people would have laughed years back if we said young folk would be buying Vinyl, yet here we are. All those songs on their phones, like a huge portable jukebox, and they are buying vinyl. Heck, even CD is making a comeback.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The thing is, people would have laughed years back if we said young folk would be buying Vinyl, yet here we are. All those songs on their phones, like a huge portable jukebox, and they are buying vinyl. Heck, even CD is making a comeback.

Yes but this has been covered in the other thread.

A) Vinyl has still had the boomer and Gen X generations supporting the market along side Gen Z, the million dollar question is will the Vinyl market still be sustainable when Boomers and Gen X are no longer here.

B) Vinyl isn’t a valid argument because the level of interest amongst Gen Z and Gen Alpha is not there for BD and 4K BD like the vinyl trend is. All that matters is how it is currently, you can’t win an argument off of “maybe one day Gen Z and Gen Alpha might be interested in BD and 4K BD like they are with vinyl”.

C) Trends with physical media from the 70s, 80s and 90s don’t apply in 2025, so they aren’t counter arguments. Gen Z and Gen Alpha have grown up with streaming as an option and it is what a high percentage of people from those generations have chosen as their preferred way to watch content, Boomers and Gen X grew up with only physical media as an option, whether it was purchasing/collecting or renting. It was all physical media back then. Video rental stores, DVD through mail, and kiosks, all rented out movie physical media, those rental businesses had to purchase their movie physical media stock from the movie studios and distributors. The revenue from rental services back then was a physical media sale and supported the physical media market. Streaming has now replaced those options for renting for the majority of people, so renting is no longer sales for physical media. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are never going to switch back to physical media in great numbers and start supporting BD and 4KBD physical media in favour of streaming. For every 5 boomers and 5 Gen Xers into physical media that passes away, there will probably only be one person from Gen Z and Gen Alpha that takes up collecting BD and 4KBD, and that’s probably being generous with numbers.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

Yes but this has been covered in the other thread.

A) Vinyl has still had the boomer and Gen X generations supporting the market along side Gen Z, the million dollar question is will the Vinyl market still be sustainable when Boomers and Gen X are no longer here.

B) Vinyl isn’t a valid argument because the level of interest amongst Gen Z and Gen Alpha is not there for BD and 4K BD like the vinyl trend is. All that matters is how it is currently, you can’t win an argument off of “maybe one day Gen Z and Gen Alpha might be interested in BD and 4K BD like they are with vinyl”.

C) Trends with physical media from the 70s, 80s and 90s don’t apply in 2025, so they aren’t counter arguments. Gen Z and Gen Alpha have grown up with streaming as an option and it is what a high percentage of people from those generations have chosen as their preferred way to watch content, Boomers and Gen X grew up with only physical media as an option, whether it was purchasing/collecting or renting. It was all physical media back then. Video rental stores, DVD through mail, and kiosks, all rented out movie physical media, those rental businesses had to purchase their movie physical media stock from the movie studios and distributors. The revenue from rental services back then was a physical media sale and supported the physical media market. Streaming has now replaced those options for renting for the majority of people, so renting is no longer sales for physical media. Gen Z and Gen Alpha are never going to switch back to physical media in great numbers and start supporting BD and 4KBD physical media in favour of streaming. For every 5 boomers and 5 Gen Xers into physical media that passes away, there will probably only be one person from Gen Z and Gen Alpha that takes up collecting BD and 4KBD, and that’s probably being generous with numbers.

It isn't there there now because it’s still around (discs), I’m talking about many years from now, gen Z loves nostalgia. I’m pretty sure future gens will too.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It isn't there there now because it’s still around (discs), I’m talking about many years from now, gen Z loves nostalgia. I’m pretty sure future gens will too.

Maybe, maybe not. That’s not an actual counter argument in a debate though, it’s an opinion, I’m only interested in what facts currently support. So if that’s the whole basis of the argument then you, Anthony P, and anyone else that argues that point has lost the debate, and the conversation really is pointless, because all it is is a bunch of collectors that are bias discussing their opinions.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

Maybe, maybe not. That’s not an actual counter argument in a debate though, it’s an opinion, I’m only interested in what facts currently support. So if that’s the whole basis of the argument you, Anthony P, and anyone else that argues that point has lost the debate.

What facts were around to support a sudden surge in interest for vinyl when folk were downloading mp3s to their iPods, Zens and Irivers? Who in their right mind would have predicted that vinyl would be a much bigger market in 2025?

Absolutely no one.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What facts were around to support a sudden surge in interest for vinyl when folk were downloading mp3s to their iPods, Zens and Irivers? Who in their right mind would have predicted that vinyl would be a much bigger market in 2025?

Absolutely no one.

You haven’t contended with any of my arguments. You’re just like Anthony P, your bias controls you and makes you keep arguing for the sake of it, you aren’t in these discussions to listen to other peoples valid points and arguments, you don’t want to agree and change your mind on anything even if it’s the truth, which comes from a place of insecurity, fear and hope. You’re really here because you feel safe and comfortable around like minded people and just want the thread to be an echo chamber. “They might be interested in it one day” isn’t a counter argument.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

You haven’t contended with any of my arguments. You’re just like Anthony P, your bias controls you and makes you keep arguing for the sake of it, you aren’t in these discussions to listen to other peoples valid points and arguments, you don’t want to agree and change your mind on anything even if it’s the truth, which comes from a place of insecurity, fear and hope. You’re really here because you feel safe and comfortable around like minded people and just want the thread to be an echo chamber. “They might be interested in it one day” isn’t a counter argument.

Oh, I see. You are a former member who got banned and you have a new account. Gotcha! Why didn’t you just say so?

Let me say this as a final reply, I have not buried my head in the sand, I know that disc is in its twilight years, but those years will continue for some time, I have acquired enough discs (double what my current count indicates) and I have enough content to enjoy for a decade, even if discs stopped tomorrow.
I have several standby plsyers too, I’m good for well into the next decade, if not beyond.

I don’t care about your doomsday posts, nor am I interested in streaming as I don’t own the content. If the day comes when disc doesn’t exist, I will turn to streaming but only as a rental model like the VHS days. My love of films will dictate that.
The AV quality of discs means they are master in my house, and that’s all that matters.

I see you are a troll, having looked at your recent posts in other threads, I don’t have time, sorry.

Have a nice life.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Oh, I see. You are a former member who got banned and you have a new account. Gotcha! Why didn’t you just say so?

I haven’t spoken to you ever in my life before today, or maybe I did in the other thread I can’t remember. I have been closely watching the discussions in this thread though.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Let me say this as a final reply, I have not buried my head in the sand, I know that disc is in its twilight years, but those years will continue for some time, I have acquired enough discs (double what my current count indicates) and I have enough content to enjoy for a decade, even if discs stopped tomorrow.
I have several standby plsyers too, I’m good for well into the next decade, if not beyond.

You see that wasn’t so hard was it. A little acknowledgement goes a long way. It would be good if Anthony P could finally do the same?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I don’t care about your doomsday posts, nor am I interested in streaming as I don’t own the content. If the day comes when disc doesn’t exist, I will turn to streaming but only as a rental model like the VHS days.

They are not doomsday posts. The topic of the thread is for discussion what I have been discussing. If you don’t like seeing those sort of posts in here then what are you doing in here?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

My love of films will dictate that.
The AV quality of discs means they are master in my house, and that’s all that matters.

You and me both.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I see you are a troll, having looked at your recent posts in other threads, I don’t have time, sorry.

Have a nice life.

Why is it that whenever someone presents valid opposing arguments in this thread that’s setup for discussing it, are they labeled as a troll by some members? An argument could be made that you are in fact the troll, but just get away with it and hijacking the thread.

[bhampton]

Winners,... Losers,

I do what I want and that matters more to me.

I buy movies on disc now like it is going out of style and perhaps it is. The new generations may not be nostalgic, they perhaps won't be able to afford it. Things certainly are changing.

At some point you get to do what you want and if you want a great Audio Video system it deserves better source material than streaming.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

I haven’t spoken to you ever in my life before today, or maybe I did in the other thread I can’t remember. I have been closely watching the discussions in this thread though.



You see that wasn’t so hard was it. A little acknowledgement goes a long way. It would be good if Anthony P could finally do the same?



They are not doomsday posts. The topic of the thread is for discussion what I have been discussing. If you don’t like seeing those sort of posts in here then what are you doing in here?



You and me both.



Why is it that whenever someone presents valid opposing arguments in this thread that’s setup for discussing it, are they labeled as a troll by some members? An argument could be made that you are in fact the troll, but just get away with it and hijacking the thread.

I was referring to other threads, not here.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by bhampton

At some point you get to do what you want and if you want a great Audio Video system it deserves better source material than streaming.

We, the LD enthusiast, have been pointing this out to laymen since the 80's via private BBS’s and CompuServe. Just replace streaming with VHS, HBO & Showtime.

Streaming is for the masses, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray is for the home theater enthusiast. Simple concept, not sure why some can not grasp it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

A choice that you keep refusing to acknowledge that Gen Z and Alpha likely won’t make when it comes to enough of their generations taking up collecting BD and 4K BD physical media for it to survive....

Not at all I know for a fact that the vast majority of them won't be collecting films. What you don't want to accept is that was also true for the generations before that. I have thousands of copies of film but in real life I don't know anyone else. My youngest sister never bought one , my middle one maybe around 30, my oldest maybe a dozen (probably gifts from me- and her middle son is z and has thousands of records and no one else that I know has that).

You don't want to accept that in the early 60's 8-track cartridge's came out, and mid 60's it was an option on all cars and by early 70's it was standard so mid 70's when I was around 5 there were people (I new one of those delusional people) already, like you, proclaiming its imminent demise.

[Youreallyareagerbil]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Streaming is for the masses, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray is for the home theater enthusiast. Simple concept, not sure why some can not grasp it.

Who has not grasped it in this thread though? It’s interesting that you bring that up, because I made a comment about exactly that in another thread here a couple of days ago. It's not just the masses that don't notice or care about the improvements of BD/4KBD, it's enthusiasts as well. AVSforum is an example, there's a lot of people in the community over there that no longer watch BDs/4KBDs who think streaming is good enough and they're happy with it, the amount of people interested in BD/4KBD on that site has shrunk considerably. That's a concerning sign, it’s an indication this hobby is in trouble when a lot of enthusiasts that once cared about BD/4KBD are opting out because they no longer care.

[Vilya]

I do not frequent AVS forum, but I have heard anecdotally that it has become an increasingly toxic place. If so, that could explain why some people no longer participate there or not as often as they once did.

[Vilya]

Variety ran this article yesterday that some of you might find interesting:

Boutique Blu-ray Labels Thrive in Digital Age, Defying Streaming Dominance, SXSW London Panel Finds: ‘The Romanticism of Having a Physical Product’

"Recent data from the British Association for Screen Entertainment (BASE) supports this trend, showing 4K UHD Blu-ray format grew 21% year-over-year in 2024."

“I think they’ve been likened to vinyl, with the resurgence of vinyl,” said Holden, whose company Second Sight Films has operated for 31 years. “There’s that same collectibility factor that coupled with quality… streaming a film is never going to have the same quality as a disc, with compression and everything.”

"The panel underscored how boutique Blu-ray labels are successfully positioning physical media as premium collectibles that offer curated experiences unavailable through streaming platforms."

https://variety.com/2025/film/news/b...on-1236422030/

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Youreallyareagerbil

Who has not grasped it in this thread though?

If you have to ask....

en·thu·si·ast - a person who is very interested in a particular activity or subject.

A enthusiast seeks out the best that is available and affordable to them. I know of no true enthusiast that will say “that is good enough for me”.

There was a time when AVS was a science forum and there were a lot of technical posters there. Now it seems mostly dominated by laymen. The Video Download Services & Hardware section (streaming) [here] used to have a lot of posters, as you can see that section is almost dead.

Just so you will know, I have almost $3000 worth of streaming hardware. Had to replace my Mac Mini and have added two more Apple TV4k (3 gen) since this post.