Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

would have liked to put extras on it, though actually the producer of the film wouldn't license them overseas for some strange reason. No extras on HK release for the same reason

Though if the new BBFC rules come into place I think we're all going to have to get used to not having many extras on releases anymore...

Sign this: https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitio...recordings-act to help out

It's too bad I can't sign this being that I'm Swedish (it seems so anyway, it says my post code isn't valid), but it's good to see that it at least seems to be getting a fair bit of support.

[Mansinthe]

Just make.up a uk zip code.. google for london or something and use your email

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

Third Window,
Has there been consideration putting booklets in your releases (like BFI Arrow or Eureka)? Then that would not have to be classified by the BBFC, right?

yes, though booklets are not cheap to make, not cheap at all and while many might be interested in a booklet for a classic or cult film like M or Metropolis or Suspiria, how many people would be interested in a booklet for Isn't Anyone Alive, How to Use Guys with Secret Tips, etc?
Also, the price of booklets vary wildly on the number of units manufactured. Companies like those will book booklets into releases which usually manufacture a few thousand units, lets say 4-5000 so it brings down the per unit cost of a booklet considerably. If you're making just 1,000 units as we do for all titles (we haven't even sold 1,000 units of Tokyo Fist or Bullet Ballet by a long shot) then we are looking at paying like 25 pence per unit for a small booklet, while if you were to make 5,000 or more than price would go to less than 7 pence per unit, and those are the rates we are charged, while Arrow, BFI, etc would pay even less as they manufacture more units every year so have better rates with SONY. for example we're often asked about steelbooks as well, but a steel book CANNOT even be manufactured unless you make 4,000 blu-rays and 8,000 dvds as minimum orders

Our companies are just way too different and cannot be compared in either the type of releases, or more importantly the size. Remember that BFI, Arrow and Eureka are about 10 times the size of us. Even Eureka, who are much smaller, have their own dedicated sales team, designers and even their own warehouses as they have sister labels which release budget bargin bin dvds such as Jane Fonda's Workout Videos (or similar), so unfortunately it's not easy to compare.

[manicsounds]

Question:

If small companies put featurettes and making-ofs online instead of on the physical discs, does that still have to be classified by the BBFC?
Also, no one seems to be taking advantage of BD-Live anymore, no small labels have. Do BD-Live extras have to be classified as well? It's not on the physical disc.

Like a lot of old DVDs had DVD-ROM access to official websites, but I don't believe the BBFC ever had to classify the actual website since it wasn't on the disc.

[Mansinthe]

i wouldnt say no to BD-Live Bonus features (all bluray players have a SD slot...) , or to UV bonus features ..

could be a way to release 720p or HD bonus features for SD movies as well.

[Yami]

From what I've heard, BD-Live isn't cheap to use. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of that was greater than BBFC fees.

[Mansinthe]

what about UV / digital copys? didnt warner release some bonus features of the new superman movie only online in the UK etc?

and what about using online stream sites for bonus features? (mubi etc)

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

what about UV / digital copys? didnt warner release some bonus features of the new superman movie only online in the UK etc?

and what about using online stream sites for bonus features? (mubi etc)

the digital copies, BD Live stuff is not cheap or easy, hence the reason why it's only the major studios which do it... (Also will cover this main point in last paragraph)

Regarding online stream sites, as I mentioned, the point about having extras on disc is not about having the extras themselves (as many people don't watch them), it's about the package being 'worth' more due to what's contained. How many times have people spent more on a 2-disc set or something which has lots of extras compared to a barebones disc of which people expect to pay a lesser price due to the lack of extras or what is perceived as the lack of effort put in creating the disc.

When margins are so small for companies like ours who only sell 1 or 2 thousand units we need to sell for as high as possible to pay back the fees incurred licensing the film and putting it out there, so we need to sell at higher prices and therefore need extras on disc to get that extra couple £s per disc, especially in an age when many companies release barebones discs at £5-6.

For online, we have less than 5% of all our sales coming from online, and we're on all platforms, so i don't think that many of our customers would make that extra effort to watch online when none of them seem to be doing it anyways, and remember it costs money to get on those platforms as there are encoding costs involved.

One more thing, and VERY important thing is that our DVDs and Blu-rays are bought from customers all over Europe, though we aren't legally allowed to sell them directly as we only own UK rights to these films but we cannot stop customers like yourself buying from Amazon, etc in the UK and having shipped overseas (forget about our own online store which is very unknown and rarely open). If we were to put the extra features online we would have to restrict to UK IPs as it would be very easy for the original distributors to catch us out and that would break contracts, so we would lose a big chunk of sales from European buyers who might prefer to buy local releases or not spend as much for a barebones release

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Only 113 more signatures required for that petition!

I'm glad third window films seems to be getting more attention here. One of my favourite labels.

[manicsounds]

Just an example: Having a Third Window YouTube or Vimeo channel, and have interviews, making ofs uploaded there. But instead of having it "free" for anyone to watch, have it password protected, and have the password for the specific movie's special features, included in the DVD or Blu-ray. So you would have to buy the disc to access the features. (Unless someone just decides to share the password code...)

In that case, you wouldn't still have to pay the BBFC for classification for the bonus materials, right?

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

Only 113 more signatures required for that petition!

I'm glad third window films seems to be getting more attention here. One of my favourite labels.

actually, to be honest that petition's system (for some reason) just changes the number of signatures required whenever it reaches a milestone. Not sure why, but i think it's a system used by that online company to get more votes. For example when there were less than 100 votes it said maybe 33 out of 100 votes and changes over and over. I'm sure when this gets 3,000 it will say 'out of 5,000' votes

so it's unlimited, and the more the better!

[Mansinthe]

If we were to put the extra features online we would have to restrict to UK IPs as it would be very easy for the original distributors to catch us out and that would break contracts

well thats to bad , (proxy cough cough) (im watching hulu as well )

hope you get as many singnatures as possible.

[darry]

Just bought Shady, Boomerang Family and See You Tomorrow, Everyone. Works out about $20A each. Which is pretty good. As I've said before, these would retail for $30A each if they were distributed in my home country. Looking forward to seeing Shady.

[Mansinthe]

darry where are you from? if you dont mind me asking.
its interessting from what countrys labels like thirdwindow get attention

i watched shady 2 days ago and its such a wonderfull movie for a directors first work. would have been a amazing movie with a big budget but it was still pretty good.

and the DVD does not look bad at all.
a few of my favorite TWF releases are DVD only (foreign duck , see you tomorrow everyone ... )

always wondered that the second movie i mentioned didnt get much more attention. great work !

if some of the DVDs should ever sell all copys it would be nice to get a rerelease of some movies with a better encode

(machine hooker and funuke looked pretty bad.. ;( )


im currently looking at some "collectors threads" in this forum and a other one.. what ofters shows are commentary like these:

I also set myself a limit of £6 per film

i dont want to pay more than 10€ per movie

price will drop soon

i will wait

and there are a lot of people asking for collectors editions, limited editions, slip covers , bonus features ... etc that are not gonna pay 13-15€ for a movie if they get the stuff they asked for...

;D

[huntauk]

I'd assume Darry is living in Australia since they are referring to Australian currency.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Honestly, I understand the desire to not spend much on big studio releases, especially of new films but if you like the movies and work being done on indie labels releases, don't wait for price drops. You're only helping yourself by spending less and sure, you can say to yourself "well why should I help ___ for such n' such a reason blah blah blah".

If we all stuck to that mentality to save $5-$7 here and there, they'll go out of business and who else is going to release much of what TWF releases? Your main and perhaps only option will be to import the official Asian releases which are all $30-$45 each and they're essentially barebones being that none of the extras are ever subtitled.

£10-£14 to get the movie on release day or soon after on blu-ray is amazing value when you think about it. They're not just movies that'll always be readily available to us. Without TWF and the like you're spending twice as much for the alternative.

Just think... Once upon a time, people were spending like $50+ on hard to find Asian movies on VHS for pete sake lol. If you want these movies, just support them out the door.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by huntauk

I'd assume Darry is living in Australia since they are referring to Australian currency.

Darry sounds a bit like an Aussie name but typically Australian currency is referred to as "AUD" after the amount, similarly to USD being used when referring to the American dollar.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

Honestly, I understand the desire to not spend much on big studio releases, especially of new films but if you like the movies and work being done on indie labels releases, don't wait for price drops. You're only helping yourself by spending less and sure, you can say to yourself "well why should I help ___ for such n' such a reason blah blah blah".

If we all stuck to that mentality to save $5-$7 here and there, they'll go out of business and who else is going to release much of what TWF releases? Your main and perhaps only option will be to import the official Asian releases which are all $30-$45 each and they're essentially barebones being that none of the extras are ever subtitled.

£10-£14 to get the movie on release day or soon after on blu-ray is amazing value when you think about it. They're not just movies that'll always be readily available to us. Without TWF and the like you're spending twice as much for the alternative.

Just think... Once upon a time, people were spending like $50+ on hard to find Asian movies on VHS for pete sake lol. If you want these movies, just support them out the door.

surely, if we don't buy official asian releases, those companies will go out of business, no? korea's sales for dvd and blu-rays are notoriously low, due to lengthy cinema runs. Hong Kong has been dominated by vcd consumption in years gone by, despie dvd prices looking low to us they're relatively high for domestic audiences, and today's blus are overpriced, poor quality. suppose the ultimate support for an asian film would come if people tried to persuade companies there to always sub stuff for international consumption...? mind you, Asia makes so many more films than ever appear on any format (anywhere), anyway, so the idea of improving or sustaining availability anywhere looks odd when you consider there's too much to ever release, let alone maintain support for the consumption of, even with their own films for their own audiences. you watch what you want to from what you get a chance too, at a price you're happy with, or I suspect it becomes unrealistic and beyond free-will.

oh, and my memories of people buying expensive LD and VHS imports was of a scene dominated by swaps and copies, bootlegs.

the relatively low price of dvd helped broaden and expand audiences, but that logic might fall flat when you consider you can find many films on used discs for virtually nothing, and nobody buys them ...

[Mansinthe]

problem is there are many japanese / korean and HK releases i would love to buy.. CJ entertaiment movies for example and many others.. (i do as well own a lot of blurays from these countrys) but they are usually very expensive to import.

last time i bought 2 korean movies in a CE edition (since that was the only edition) .. price for these 2 movies after being hit by customs was 32€ EACH

usually most HK blurays i buy are around 15-20€ and korean movies like CJ entertaiment ones are 20-35€ each

sure most of these movies are worth it (for me) but its nice to have a company like TWF around or Well Go USA where i can get these movies for 11-16€ each.


and i know that a lot of people already consider TWF releases "expensive".

and even with being region free and understanding english and german its sometimes hard to even find a good DVD release of some great asian movies...
i did even consider getting a HTPC to add "fansubs" to japanese blurays that do not have any subs at all... isnt that kinda sad?


and now the BBFC will probably make it even more difficult to get some decent releases in the UK.

[logboy]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

problem is there are many japanese / korean and HK releases i would love to buy.. CJ entertaiment movies for example and many others.. (i do as well own a lot of blurays from these countrys) but they are usually very expensive to import.

last time i bought 2 korean movies in a CE edition (since that was the only edition) .. price for these 2 movies after being hit by customs was 32€ EACH

usually most HK blurays i buy are around 15-20€ and korean movies like CJ entertaiment ones are 20-35€ each

sure most of these movies are worth it (for me) but its nice to have a company like TWF around or Well Go USA where i can get these movies for 11-16€ each.


and i know that a lot of people already consider TWF releases "expensive".

and even with being region free and understanding english and german its sometimes hard to even find a good DVD release of some great asian movies...
i did even consider getting a HTPC to add "fansubs" to japanese blurays that do not have any subs at all... isnt that kinda sad?


and now the BBFC will probably make it even more difficult to get some decent releases in the UK.

I don't know how you get hit for import duty, when the two main Korean retailers allow you to state a false value on parcels & invoices. I've bought loads, at those higher prices, because the prices are usually unavoidable and waiting for a drop isn't remotely as successful as in the uk or USA.

I like wellgo USA. don't buy much of theirs, but $10 for a new blu is very good, even with postage on top, it's about £12 for one film; works out better if you find two at once from their (to my eye) predominantly crossover-appeal range of commercial films.