Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This Disney thing is huge. The knock on effect will be very significant. You guys stil doubt me about the push for PG and U rated films? Don't forget, Netflix will want to match Disney and have franchises that will sell in other departments. Think Figures, video games, t shirts, toys etc.. the age of kiddified content is nearly upon us. Netflix'es latest acquisition proves my point. Plus, talks are going on about selling Netflix branded merchandise I hear.

WRONG.

Netflix bought Mark Millar. There is absolutely nothing kiddy about the stuff he produces.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Netflix'es latest acquisition proves my point.

... that Germans love David Hasslehoff?

[jimidini]

Originally Posted by OneWayFilms

Yesterday, our internet and cable went down due to bad weather. The whole city was down. I WANTED to watch a certain movie, since the internet was down, but I could ONLY watch my PHYSICAL disks. NO ONLINE STREAMING available.

THAT reminded me again why physical disks are much better.

That's not the only positive.

- not possible for anyone to modify/censor my movies after the purchase
- I can sell my DVDs/BDs (a few of my DVDs are worth a fortune now because OOP and no BD-release in sight)
- I can give my DVDs/BDs to a friend (but I don't lol)
- these last 2 mean the purchase has actual value
- I'm not dependent on some company/service provider to stay afloat (Sony for example has already shut down all sorts of digital download shops, with no ability to redownload)
- I can see movies/play games, that may or may not be banned in the country I'm living in atm
- steelbooks and all sorts of collector packaging
- physical media is actually better for the environment on top of all of that

In case they stop producing physical discs, I will stop paying a dime for movies/games/etc. My backlog is very huge anyway.

Oh and yes, I love those UV codes too. Because I can sell them to get a few bucks off the BD purchase.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's a shame you couldn't have spoken up for me when I was making these points years ago.

I'll give you four years. Since 2013, EST has nearly doubled, SVOD has nearly doubled, and physical has imploded by 1/3. My first post in this thread proclaimed this debate dead and that digital had won. You called me a "digital fanboy". My fourth post said: It's very likely that EST continues to play second fiddle to subscription. Acceptance of subscription and rejection of ownership will dictate EST's future, not physical sales. Then you said, "Now, what will die first Digital HD or Blu-Ray?" Well, both are still growing. You think EST will die before physical and you have suggested they'll take your movies away. So what was there to speak up for?

The only two areas of growth are EST and SVOD. Even VOD is down. Digital ownership growth isn't replacing physical losses though, indicating a clear preference for subscription over purchase. Am I surprised to see SVOD's trajectory? Yes. I thought it would take longer to get to where it is now. I never said it wouldn't get there.

As far as DVD collapsing and Blu-ray seeing slight growth: Who's to say it's not because people are buying discs to get the redemption codes? For ages you've said those will go away and then where will digital be? The better question is if they go away where will physical be? Of course you know I've said they won't be going away. They need that synergy to keep physical sales up. Why haven't you spoken up for me all these years?

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by jimidini

That's not the only positive.

- not possible for anyone to modify/censor my movies after the purchase

Not possible for more extras or new cuts to be added either.

- I can sell my DVDs/BDs (a few of my DVDs are worth a fortune now because OOP and no BD-release in sight)

Except you probably don't because how can you possibly get rid of them now that they're so valuable? (I am familiar with the collector's dilemma!)

- I can give my DVDs/BDs to a friend (but I don't lol)

This is true but I also can share my digital purchases with friends using UV. Not quite as simple as handing someone a disc but I also never have to leave my sofa.

- these last 2 mean the purchase has actual value

The value of secondhand Blu-rays is non-zero but not by much.

- I'm not dependent on some company/service provider to stay afloat (Sony for example has already shut down all sorts of digital download shops, with no ability to redownload)

We've had multiple providers shut down and purchases were transferred to another provider. I don't think I've heard of a shop close up with people losing purchases in years.

- I can see movies/play games, that may or may not be banned in the country I'm living in atm

Make sure you brought the player and power converter overseas with you.

- steelbooks and all sorts of collector packaging

This is a cool benefit! It also takes up space.

- physical media is actually better for the environment on top of all of that

lolwut

There is no way that physical media is better for the environment. I have thousands digltal movies. They take up no space and use not much bandwidth or electricity. Discs have manufacturing and transportation components. And I feel bad for the landfill or incinerator that would eventually consume thousands of discs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

I'll give you four years. Since 2013, EST has nearly doubled, SVOD has nearly doubled, and physical has imploded by 1/3. My first post in this thread proclaimed this debate dead and that digital had won. You called me a "digital fanboy". My fourth post said: It's very likely that EST continues to play second fiddle to subscription. Acceptance of subscription and rejection of ownership will dictate EST's future, not physical sales. Then you said, "Now, what will die first Digital HD or Blu-Ray?" Well, both are still growing. You think EST will die before physical and you have suggested they'll take your movies away. So what was there to speak up for?

The only two areas of growth are EST and SVOD. Even VOD is down. Digital ownership growth isn't replacing physical losses though, indicating a clear preference for subscription over purchase. Am I surprised to see SVOD's trajectory? Yes. I thought it would take longer to get to where it is now. I never said it wouldn't get there.

As far as DVD collapsing and Blu-ray seeing slight growth: Who's to say it's not because people are buying discs to get the redemption codes? For ages you've said those will go away and then where will digital be? The better question is if they go away where will physical be? Of course you know I've said they won't be going away. They need that synergy to keep physical sales up. Why haven't you spoken up for me all these years?

'Copies' indicates we are talking Digital HD versus disc. sellthrough in other words not a buffet of movies and tv shows via subscription. That is the title of the thread. If that is what you mean by digital already winning, fair enough. In this world of a dozen subscription services required for exclusive content, there are no winners. Only losers as cable tv mark 2 comes to the fore. Hefty costs and the beat goes on.

Nothing else to say, it's me versus everyone else here. Whether you agree with me or not. Going to join my disc loving friends in the 4K section. Bye for now.

[Texan26]

So the violent rated R "John Wick 2" became Lionsgate's highest-grossing digital title in company history. But supposedly we are heading into a kiddie Rated G era? OK

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/fin...-history-40576

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yet I continue to predict how the industry is going. You guys focus on what you believe I am mistaken about. This subscription trend has been coming for years at the expense of disc AND digital HD. As for you, have I pissed on your fries at some point or do you hold a grudge when someone opposes your views?

No, not you personally, but I don't like anyone who can't back up what they are saying with facts. How you haven't been bounced out of this forum astounds me. Because you are a grade A troll. Both physical, streaming and Digital can coexist with one another. Otherwise the studios would have moved onto the victor. So this is not the format war of days gone by.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

'Copies' indicates we are talking Digital HD versus disc. sellthrough in other words not a buffet of movies and tv shows via subscription. That is the title of the thread. If that is what you mean by digital already winning, fair enough. In this world of a dozen subscription services required for exclusive content, there are no winners. Only losers as cable tv mark 2 comes to the fore. Hefty costs and the beat goes on.

Nothing else to say, it's me versus everyone else here. Whether you agree with me or not. Going to join my disc loving friends in the 4K section. Bye for now.

Actually the title of the thread is Physical Copies or Digital, not Physical Copies or Digital Copies. Pedantic but to me it felt like this discussion revolves around physical media vs. digital media, not physical ownership vs. digital ownership. Of course there have been several threads about similar topics so I find it pretty easy to conflate them.

Why is it you vs. everyone? We agree subs have been killing it the past few years. We agree that Blu-ray quality is universally going to be better than digital (the improvement can vary). We agree that digital lockers outside the U.S. stink. I'm sure there's more but the things that stick out to me are where I feel you go off the rails: movies only being available on phones and watches, a certain kind of denial about what the future of physical holds, and so forth. You have a persistent negative attitude whereas I see issues but I also see enormous promise. For example, instead of thinking that competition between a dozen subscription services might give different users experiences best suited to them and offer opportunities to creators that might not have existed before, you see it the choices as overwhelming and expensive and there will be no winners only losers. And that's a difficult chasm to bridge.

[DEERCOLLOPA]

IMHO digital is most definitely the future of movie collecting. I fully support every physical media lover on this board. The debates on this subject are entertaining, to say the least. I myself have been a collector as far back as the VHS defeat of Betamax. It has certainly been a life long & extremely fun hobby. Personally I have grown to realize letting go of my physical media collection makes me no less of a movie lover. I have seen films I would have never even considered watching, had I had to purchase them.
Some of which I have immensely enjoyed. I have let go of all of my media collection after much consideration. I honestly find I just don't want all the clutter. The AWSESOME thing is I still gave up none of my favorite films. And I can take them anywhere. I think there is no wrong or right to this debate. Collect what u like. Enjoy what makes u happy. Digital is my new collecting hobby as much as DVD was after VHS and BLU was after DVD. Not to mention how 4K BRIEFLY was after Blu. For me, I finally decided formats just don't matter. What drives me is a LOVE of movies. And what could a movie lover HONESTLY LOVE MORE than a traveling format?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Texan26

So the violent rated R "John Wick 2" became Lionsgate's highest-grossing digital title in company history. But supposedly we are heading into a kiddie Rated G era? OK

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/fin...-history-40576

Steedeel says we are because Netflix acquired the man behind kid friendly entertainment such as Wanted, Kick-ass, Kingsman and Logan (loosely).

[Wasgo]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So they were putting out free mobile codes thst barely anyone used and replaced them with UV codes that anyone barely uses to prop up disc sales? Emmmm, ok!

If I recall correctly, they started to provide free mobile codes when they claimed it was illegal to rip DVDs, to meet the needs of people who claimed they ripped for portability.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by jimidini

That's not the only positive.

- not possible for anyone to modify/censor my movies after the purchase
- I can sell my DVDs/BDs (a few of my DVDs are worth a fortune now because OOP and no BD-release in sight)
- I can give my DVDs/BDs to a friend (but I don't lol)
- these last 2 mean the purchase has actual value
- I'm not dependent on some company/service provider to stay afloat (Sony for example has already shut down all sorts of digital download shops, with no ability to redownload)
- I can see movies/play games, that may or may not be banned in the country I'm living in atm
- steelbooks and all sorts of collector packaging
- physical media is actually better for the environment on top of all of that

In case they stop producing physical discs, I will stop paying a dime for movies/games/etc. My backlog is very huge anyway.

Oh and yes, I love those UV codes too. Because I can sell them to get a few bucks off the BD purchase.

You won't get much for selling Blu-rays/DVDs. Usually stores that I sold my blu-rays gave me $1-1.25 on average per Blu-ray. You might get a bit more reselling them through ebay but after the fees it won't be much more, and it's just more work, and even more work when trying to sell hundreds of Blu-ray separately.

As far as packaging is concerned, if you are a big collector then this can become a problem with space eventually. I owned nearly 400 blu-rays at one time but it was looking like a thumbsore on my shelf the way I hand to strategically place them on my shelf to make the most use of the space as it was becoming too crowded. I also did at one time store some of my blu-rays in binders and throw out the packaging but it was a hassle looking for a movie in a binder, and I question the long term effects of storing them that way, not to mention, those that I sold without the packaging but included the binders, I got nearly nothing for them considering how many of them I sold.

I got rid of my whole Blu-ray collection about a week ago and I now exclusively use iTunes for movie purchases and code redemptions (when possible). I even bought many movies on iTunes of what I got I got rid of on Blu-ray since I wanted to own it digitally. I have no plans on going back to blu-rays.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by DEERCOLLOPA

IMHO digital is most definitely the future of movie collecting. I fully support every physical media lover on this board. The debates on this subject are entertaining, to say the least. I myself have been a collector as far back as the VHS defeat of Betamax. It has certainly been a life long & extremely fun hobby. Personally I have grown to realize letting go of my physical media collection makes me no less of a movie lover. I have seen films I would have never even considered watching, had I had to purchase them.
Some of which I have immensely enjoyed. I have let go of all of my media collection after much consideration. I honestly find I just don't want all the clutter. The AWESOME thing is I still gave up none of my favorite films. And I can take them anywhere. I think there is no wrong or right to this debate. Collect what u like. Enjoy what makes u happy. Digital is my new collecting hobby as much as DVD was after VHS and BLU was after DVD. Not to mention how 4K BRIEFLY was after Blu. For me, I finally decided formats just don't matter. What drives me is a LOVE of movies. And what could a movie lover HONESTLY LOVE MORE than a traveling format?

Exactly, well said, thank you.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PCFan

You won't get much for selling Blu-rays/DVDs. Usually stores that I sold my blu-rays gave me $1-1.25 on average per Blu-ray. You might get a bit more reselling them through ebay but after the fees it won't be much more, and it's just more work, and even more work when trying to sell hundreds of Blu-ray separately.

Yea selling movies these day is not even worth the effort. I've just given dvds and blus of movies I've upgraded away.

I couldn't even sell the 3D copies of Rogue One or Civil War on Offer-up.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by PCFan

You won't get much for selling Blu-rays/DVDs. Usually stores that I sold my blu-rays gave me $1-1.25 on average per Blu-ray. You might get a bit more reselling them through ebay but after the fees it won't be much more, and it's just more work, and even more work when trying to sell hundreds of Blu-ray separately.

Personally I flip my extra blu rays though craigslist and I buy a lot of my blu rays from craigslist. A large part of its knowing which blu rays will be over printed and will flood the market. I will admit selling movies got way harder over the last year but it can still be done as long as you know the market. I started really collecting blu rays about 2 years ago and I have pretty much added 200 blu rays to my collection without spending a dime because I can see albatross opportunities.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by veritas

Personally I flip my extra blu rays though craigslist and I buy a lot of my blu rays from craigslist. A large part of its knowing which blu rays will be over printed and will flood the market. I will admit selling movies got way harder over the last year but it can still be done as long as you know the market. I started really collecting blu rays about 2 years ago and I have pretty much added 200 blu rays to my collection without spending a dime because I can see albatross opportunities.

Cool.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

No, not you personally, but I don't like anyone who can't back up what they are saying with facts. How you haven't been bounced out of this forum astounds me. Because you are a grade A troll. Both physical, streaming and Digital can coexist with one another. Otherwise the studios would have moved onto the victor. So this is not the format war of days gone by.

How can I not back things up? I hsve argued that it's going subscription for years, bloody years. Many on here denied it. The stats fully back me up.

Also, how the heck am I a troll? Have I intentionally set out to hurt anyone? Of course I haven't. this is film we are talking about. Trolls have pure hate in them and want to hurt people's feelings. This is and always was going to be a smack down thread. A few strong words have to be expected. It's never personal but people like you try to make it so. If I remember correctly, you have been eager to see me banned from very early on. You and two others who barely post now. Isn't that troll behaviour? Trying to provoke a mod into noticing your post in order to stir the pot?

Luckily I have many great friends in this forum and it makes it worthwhile to be a member here. So, hard luck. Maybe one day, but not today Donster.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Actually the title of the thread is Physical Copies or Digital, not Physical Copies or Digital Copies. Pedantic but to me it felt like this discussion revolves around physical media vs. digital media, not physical ownership vs. digital ownership. Of course there have been several threads about similar topics so I find it pretty easy to conflate them.

Why is it you vs. everyone? We agree subs have been killing it the past few years. We agree that Blu-ray quality is universally going to be better than digital (the improvement can vary). We agree that digital lockers outside the U.S. stink. I'm sure there's more but the things that stick out to me are where I feel you go off the rails: movies only being available on phones and watches, a certain kind of denial about what the future of physical holds, and so forth. You have a persistent negative attitude whereas I see issues but I also see enormous promise. For example, instead of thinking that competition between a dozen subscription services might give different users experiences best suited to them and offer opportunities to creators that might not have existed before, you see it the choices as overwhelming and expensive and there will be no winners only losers. And that's a difficult chasm to bridge.

You may have agreed but most didn't. Some even argued that Vudu was running away with the market lol. That's clearly not true. Vudu is still a niche.

Yes, I do see the negative. I see a format I love under threat from a format that is inferior in every way. What is there to be positive about?

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

How can I not back things up? I hsve argued that it's going subscription for years, bloody years. Many on here denied it. The stats fully back me up.

You have argued that it's going to subscription only. Many people want the hottest latest movies right away and not wait months for it to appear on a subscription service. And now you would have to subscribe to about six different services to make sure you watch every major movie. Netflix is cheap and that's why millions have it but it's not going to completely replace movie sales. I have Netflix, Hulu. Shudder, and Amazon Prime but still buy movies.

NBC is already shutting down their comedy subscription service. (https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/09/...ng-down-seeso/) These companies are going to learn that they just need to leave their programming on Netflix and Hulu.