Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by echopulse

I would say that FandangoNow is a legitimate provider. It's a DMA linked retailer. ..

I agree at this time FandangoNow has become legit.
FandangoNow sells Disney, but at this time is not part of DMA. It should be, don't know what the hold up is.

Edit: You may be able to redeem codes on FandangoNow, but the movies are stuck there and do not transfer back to DMA or other providers.

Don't forget # 6 Nook Video.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by veritas

Perhaps he means one legitimate uv provider which is true uv basically equals vudu at this point. When uv started it was like 10 small providers pooling their resources to try to look as good as the big players like amazon or itunes. If the studios had not given them preferential treatment with uv only digital copies I don't think any uv company would still be around.

But seriously some people always defend vudu or uv but it was given exclusive digital copies for years, 1 dollar disc to digital, alot of free give aways and some rather nice video sharing rights and it has less market share then itunes and amazon who did none of that stuff (uv partners are actually going under). A huge investment went into uv and I doubt its payed for itself (unless creating vudu was their only goal).

But that's missing the point. Itunes had an exclusive until 2011.... ALL storefronts were invited to join UV's locker. This should have ended Exclusivity and allowed codes to be redeemed anyplace. Now people are hoping the MA locker to be the one everybody decides to join....not holding breath lol.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

But that's missing the point. Itunes had an exclusive until 2011.... ALL storefronts were invited to join UV's locker. This should have ended Exclusivity and allowed codes to be redeemed anyplace. Now people are hoping the MA locker to be the one everybody decides to join....not holding breath lol.

UV was a good solution, on the surface. However, the studios got greedy and only small storefronts were willing to put up the money to be involved. The fees were beyond onerous, and no storefront with significant marketshare had any real incentive to sign up.

The studios pretty much said "This is our digital locker system, and we want you to use it, but we want you to pay for it." Essentially, a bunch of companies got together, invested in a system, and then asked retailers to pay for the cost of the development. Why would someone like Apple or Amazon agree to that? They have millions of users who are already buying content from them. There is not enough added value to increase their costs by signing up for UV.

Disc-to-digital was likely another sore spot. It's great for the consumer, but who, on the studio/retailer side, really "wins" with those transactions? Hint: It's probably not the retailer.

Apple is pretty much eating the cost to upgrade from 1080p to 2160p, so there had to be other reasons for them not joining UV.

Hopefully MA corrects the mistakes made by UV.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

UV was a good solution, on the surface. However, the studios got greedy and only small storefronts were willing to put up the money to be involved. The fees were beyond onerous, and no storefront with significant marketshare had any real incentive to sign up.

The studios pretty much said "This is our digital locker system, and we want you to use it, but we want you to pay for it." Essentially, a bunch of companies got together, invested in a system, and then asked retailers to pay for the cost of the development. Why would someone like Apple or Amazon agree to that? They have millions of users who are already buying content from them. There is not enough added value to increase their costs by signing up for UV.

Disc-to-digital was likely another sore spot. It's great for the consumer, but who, on the studio/retailer side, really "wins" with those transactions? Hint: It's probably not the retailer.

Apple is pretty much eating the cost to upgrade from 1080p to 2160p, so there had to be other reasons for them not joining UV.

Hopefully MA corrects the mistakes made by UV.

I think the sign up charge had little to do with it but we are just guessing. If the little (and even Vudu only had a 1% market when Walmart bought them) storefronts can afford it, I'd imagine it would be a drop in the bucket to the largest providers. I still think the biggest reason is they don't want customers to be able to move their collections around....buy elsewhere etc. With market share shifting, maybe they will all get on the same page...we will see.

[twobelowpar]

Okay.
Vudu and Fandango Now then.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by huskerbear

I think the sign up charge had little to do with it but we are just guessing. If the little (and even Vudu only had a 1% market when Walmart bought them) storefronts can afford it, I'd imagine it would be a drop in the bucket to the largest providers. I still think the biggest reason is they don't want customers to be able to move their collections around....buy elsewhere etc. With market share shifting, maybe they will all get on the same page...we will see.

I will attempt to make my point with a local, and likely highly anecdotal example.

A few years ago, we had a couple of food delivery startups in the area (they've since been absorbed into larger ones; still nothing like UberEats around here though). A lot of local restaurants signed up for these services. However, bigger chains did not. Why is that? Why wouldn't a restaurant want to have more people ordering from them?

Simple. It wasn't worth the cost. The fees may have been small, even negligible, but they still determined it wasn't worth it. What incentive does, say, Chili's have to integrate with a local delivery system? There is no value add for them. If they don't sign on, people will still go to Chili's.

Storefronts like Amazon, iTunes, and Google Play aren't hurting for users. Anything they add to their systems has to be beneficial enough to them, as a company, to justify the cost of developing the integration pipeline to a digital movie locker.

You also have to wonder why Sony, who currently provides UV-only codes, never UV-enabled the Playstation movie store. If UV is so great, why won't they "eat what they cook"?

Every major provider signed on for DMA, even though Disney controls the locker and even prices on content. So why are the major storefronts supporting Disney, which seemingly gives them less flexibility, but they shunned UV? There's more than meets the eye here.

[PCFan]

The only reason I'm hesitant to give up on digital purchases is because I have a iTunes library of 447 movies and 3 TV shows. I feel that I'm too far into my iTunes collecting that their is no turning back. I even sold my whole blu-ray collection about 3 months ago thinking that I won't go back to physical media, which maybe was a mistake, well a mistake for not keeping just my favorites. 4k has me seriously considering going back to physical media and I don't mean just for 4k. I have not decided whether I should buy an Apple TV 4k or a 4k blu-ray player after I buy a 4k TV. If I end up going back to physical media once I have a 4k TV and decide to buy a 4k blu-ray player instead of an Apple TV 4k it will be all physical media for me for purchases and no more digital purchases from that point on. Already Apple not having a download option for 4k to a computer for home sharing I see as a negative and this will seriously play a big part in my decision whether I stay with digital or switch to physical when I get into 4k. I will still keep my Netflix subscription for stuff I rather stream but don't want to own if I go back to physical for ownership.

[BlakkMajik3000]

Originally Posted by PCFan

The only reason I'm hesitant to give up on digital purchases is because I have a iTunes library of 447 movies and 3 TV shows. I feel that I'm too far into my iTunes collecting that their is no turning back. I even sold my whole blu-ray collection about 3 months ago thinking that I won't go back to physical media, which maybe was a mistake, well a mistake for not keeping just my favorites. 4k has me seriously considering going back to physical media and I don't mean just for 4k. I have not decided whether I should buy an Apple TV 4k or a 4k blu-ray player after I buy a 4k TV. If I end up going back to physical media once I have a 4k TV and decide to buy a 4k blu-ray player instead of an Apple TV 4k it will be all physical media for me for purchases and no more digital purchases from that point on. Already Apple not having a download option for 4k to a computer for home sharing I see as a negative and this will seriously play a big part in my decision whether I stay with digital or switch to physical when I get into 4k. I will still keep my Netflix subscription for stuff I rather stream but don't want to own if I go back to physical for ownership.

Why must it be either/or?

As you've stated, you have a substantial amount of iTunes movies, and no blu-rays. I don't see any reason to buy all of those movies on disc again. They're yours. You can't sell them or give them away, so why not use them, at least for HD viewing?

I'm with you on the 4K part. The lack of 4K downloads pretty much guarantees I will be sticking to disc for all UHD movies. I still plan to use iTunes for everything else though.

[huskerbear]

Originally Posted by BlakkMajik3000

I will attempt to make my point with a local, and likely highly anecdotal example.

A few years ago, we had a couple of food delivery startups in the area (they've since been absorbed into larger ones; still nothing like UberEats around here though). A lot of local restaurants signed up for these services. However, bigger chains did not. Why is that? Why wouldn't a restaurant want to have more people ordering from them?

Simple. It wasn't worth the cost. The fees may have been small, even negligible, but they still determined it wasn't worth it. What incentive does, say, Chili's have to integrate with a local delivery system? There is no value add for them. If they don't sign on, people will still go to Chili's.

Storefronts like Amazon, iTunes, and Google Play aren't hurting for users. Anything they add to their systems has to be beneficial enough to them, as a company, to justify the cost of developing the integration pipeline to a digital movie locker.

You also have to wonder why Sony, who currently provides UV-only codes, never UV-enabled the Playstation movie store. If UV is so great, why won't they "eat what they cook"?

Every major provider signed on for DMA, even though Disney controls the locker and even prices on content. So why are the major storefronts supporting Disney, which seemingly gives them less flexibility, but they shunned UV? There's more than meets the eye here.

I agree "There's more than meets the eye here" And I understand your reasoning. I believe Apple and Disney had DMA in the works when the DECE was putting UV together, the biggest reason those 2 didn't even join the conversation. Apple (seemingly) gets an exclusive, and other storefronts decided if itunes was in, they better too...and were only talking about one studios movies. As I said, Vudu growing might be just what's needed to get the biggest providers on board with "MA" maybe? Not sure were there yet but they will all eventually get together I hope.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Vor4

Good luck dealing with scratch discs, broken cases, playback issues on 4k movies that require 4k bluray player manufacturers to send out firmware updates to play the movies, and of course dealing with space issues.

If you buy a disc that comes scratched, you can exchange it. As for broken cases, most of the time the cases did not come damaged when I bought a blu-ray but it has happened enough times to me for it not to be uncommon in my experience. As for needing firmware updates to play movies, well just buy a player from a respectable brand to minimize that issue. Space issues is not an issue if you buy a blu-ray just to watch once and then resell it. Maybe for people that build up huge physical collections it can become an issue depending on their space available, but yes with digital you don't have to worry about space issues no matter how many titles you own digitally. Also with digital there is no guarantee that you will still have access to a movie you purchased if it gets pulled out of service and you don't download it before hand, at least with iTunes. Even Apple recommended me to download my purchases I make through the iTunes store and not using the iTunes store as storage since if the movie ever gets pulled out of their service they can't guarantee I will still have access to it.

[cpr3584]

Originally Posted by PCFan

The only reason I'm hesitant to give up on digital purchases is because I have a iTunes library of 447 movies and 3 TV shows. I feel that I'm too far into my iTunes collecting that their is no turning back. I even sold my whole blu-ray collection about 3 months ago thinking that I won't go back to physical media, which maybe was a mistake, well a mistake for not keeping just my favorites. 4k has me seriously considering going back to physical media and I don't mean just for 4k. I have not decided whether I should buy an Apple TV 4k or a 4k blu-ray player after I buy a 4k TV. If I end up going back to physical media once I have a 4k TV and decide to buy a 4k blu-ray player instead of an Apple TV 4k it will be all physical media for me for purchases and no more digital purchases from that point on. Already Apple not having a download option for 4k to a computer for home sharing I see as a negative and this will seriously play a big part in my decision whether I stay with digital or switch to physical when I get into 4k. I will still keep my Netflix subscription for stuff I rather stream but don't want to own if I go back to physical for ownership.

Im in the same situation, except with VUDU. I have about the same amount of movies on there- and a collection of about 50 blu ray discs that are favorites. I'll be upgrading soon to 4K and went back and forth about digital vs physical. Decided the best move is to have disc be my primary source for movies and use UV as a backup. It's worth the $5 to not sell the code and just redeem them in case anything happens to the discs.

[Cutter_]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Even Apple recommended me to download my purchases I make through the iTunes store and not using the iTunes store as storage since if the movie ever gets pulled out of their service they can't guarantee I will still have access to it.

This is the part that I don't like about digital and scares me a little. I no longer have "Being John Malkovich" in my digital collection anymore. I think when Criterion issued their release, mine became obsolete (just a guess). Also, historically, through Apple, I've lost some iTunes purchases because they no longer sell that album anymore. I would assume the same will happen with movies.

Now, it's not a huge loss, but enough to make me mad, and hesitant.

Like I said before, it's digital and physical for me. And for me there's reasons for buying both. Price, usually being the no. 1 factor, and availability being the no. 2 factor. So, I don't see my ways of buying movies changing right now.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by PCFan

If you buy a disc that comes scratched, you can exchange it. As for broken cases, most of the time the cases did not come damaged when I bought a blu-ray but it has happened enough times to me for it not to be uncommon in my experience. As for needing firmware updates to play movies, well just buy a player from a respectable brand to minimize that issue. Space issues is not an issue if you buy a blu-ray just to watch once and then resell it. Maybe for people that build up huge physical collections it can become an issue depending on their space available, but yes with digital you don't have to worry about space issues no matter how many titles you own digitally. Also with digital there is no guarantee that you will still have access to a movie you purchased if it gets pulled out of service and you don't download it before hand, at least with iTunes. Even Apple recommended me to download my purchases I make through the iTunes store and not using the iTunes store as storage since if the movie ever gets pulled out of their service they can't guarantee I will still have access to it.

When I said service I meant to say store.

[dublinbluray108]

My habits in purchasing movies has not changed one bit. I still prefer physical media for movies with UV for backup. I still not prefer to buy Digital HD off iTunes because I still think the prices are so expensive. With music on the other hand; I am into a bit of both physical & downloaded music.

The physical CD still has a lot of value to me as I have experienced problems with purchasing mp3 downloads of songs. Anytime I would buy a single off a streaming service; I would have to buy it again when it is part of a full album of songs. That means more of my money is being wasted paying for the single twice along with other songs I want to buy with an album. This happened when I tried to buy a 30th anniversary remaster of Red Hill Mining Town from U2. When I tried to buy remixes of the songs in the album; that particular that I purchased before had been deleted off Groove Music & I had to buy it again in the full album. When I buy CD's on the other hand; I only have to buy it once & have it stored in the jewel case at home for life.

Physical media rocks.

[tobz]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

My habits in purchasing movies has not changed one bit. I still prefer physical media for movies with UV for backup. I still not prefer to buy Digital HD off iTunes because I still think the prices are so expensive. With music on the other hand; I am into a bit of both physical & downloaded music.

The physical CD still has a lot of value to me as I have experienced problems with purchasing mp3 downloads of songs. Anytime I would buy a single off a streaming service; I would have to buy it again when it is part of a full album of songs. That means more of my money is being wasted paying for the single twice along with other songs I want to buy with an album. This happened when I tried to buy a 30th anniversary remaster of Red Hill Mining Town from U2. When I tried to buy remixes of the songs in the album; that particular that I purchased before had been deleted off Groove Music & I had to buy it again in the full album. When I buy CD's on the other hand; I only have to buy it once & have it stored in the jewel case at home for life.

Physical media rocks.

In regards to your CD logic, don't buy the single then, just wait until the album is released then buy that.

[Steedeel]

Hello, been a while so thought I would check in.

The big change has been Movies anywhere which was inevitable. It will not stop the march of subscription but it may prolong the life of ownership for Digital.

The major concern I see coming is the simmering interest in interactive movies.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/paramoun...ts-1202188829/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/1...v-sports-polls

Apple are showing an interest it would seem, which means the industry will follow if there is even a hint of a successful show. This to me is very worrying. Is this going to be the future? I know I have talked about it a few times before but things seem to be ramping up. It really does seem like our beloved movies may be under threat from this developing interest in two way interactions with our movies. As the talk of interactive apps intensifies, so does my fear that my favourite pastime could become a immensely irritating social media inspired, choose your own adventure.

[veritas]

Trying movies anywhere at this point I am not sure if its a win for physical or digital. On one hand they gave away a shit ton of free stuff but on the other hand everything is glitchy with uhd stuff turning to sd and customer service is basically none existent now as the major studios basically say we are sol when we call for help.

I think this whole experience makes physical look a hell of a lot more reliable in comparison.

All these companies need to do is push fixed version of the films into the service but instead they are all pointing at each other saying its not our fault its that companies rather then fixing the problem. It should not be the customer that is trying to fix your service with you they should take the code info go oh ya that is valid add it to your account and then fix it on the back end on their own time instead they are wasting both our time and the Indian guys time who keeps having to give us bull answers.

Anyway with my experience with movies anywhere I don't wanna buy digital anymore (if they ever beak I know they wont help me) but I don't really want to buy stuff from these guys in physical form either. These companies are willing to shoot themselves in the foot over a matter of who has to pay pennies.

How can you trust them to keep your digital library up years in the future when they wont even fix problems you have currently.

[Steedeel]

We have more to worry about than that. See my above post.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

We have more to worry about than that. See my above post.

Most of us don’t share your fear of an interactive future. The second screen experience never really got mainstream to my knowledge, unless kids were using it. For the most part, these interactive experiences are for kids, so you needn’t worry about it taking over cinema IMO.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Hello, been a while so thought I would check in.

The big change has been Movies anywhere which was inevitable. It will not stop the march of subscription but it may prolong the life of ownership for Digital.

The major concern I see coming is the simmering interest in interactive movies.

http://deadline.com/2017/10/paramoun...ts-1202188829/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/1...v-sports-polls

Apple are showing an interest it would seem, which means the industry will follow if there is even a hint of a successful show. This to me is very worrying. Is this going to be the future? I know I have talked about it a few times before but things seem to be ramping up. It really does seem like our beloved movies may be under threat from this developing interest in two way interactions with our movies. As the talk of interactive apps intensifies, so does my fear that my favourite pastime could become a immensely irritating social media inspired, choose your own adventure.

Gimmick, just like 3D and VR etc.