Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[nvadr]

Some items restocked over at Dark Force.

[Davidian]

Forty bucks for Cut & Run?!? Has it always been that price?

[bsend]

Originally Posted by Davidian

Forty bucks for Cut & Run?!? Has it always been that price?

I got mine for $25 from Ronin. If you can live without the slip, it's $18 over at Amazon.

[xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx]

Wish they were selling Neon Maniacs by itself.

[Fiocca_Cola]

Originally Posted by xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx

Wish they were selling Neon Maniacs by itself.

I absolutely love Neon Maniacs, it was one of the original titles that turned me onto CODE RED, shame it’s not easily accessible

[Monroville]

Originally Posted by bipbop13

Google is your friend. Research is something everyone can do. I spent over an hour coming up with the info that I did. Your turn now.

(I hate it when people do this) If you don't want to answer questions or provide any extra info or insight, then just don't answer the post.

[Dark Force]

Originally Posted by xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx

Wish they were selling Neon Maniacs by itself.

We will be selling Neon Maniacs by itself when the store restocks if you can wait a little bit.

[Hedji]

Too bad Screen Archives recently liquidated much of their stock through sales, because for a long time, they were a very good source of old titles, such as Neon Maniacs.

[Fiocca_Cola]

Originally Posted by Hedji

Too bad Screen Archives recently liquidated much of their stock through sales, because for a long time, they were a very good source of old titles, such as Neon Maniacs.

Despite the rather high prices and shipping rates I agree. I held off for the longest time on purchasing Love Butcher and Mary Mary Bloody Mary then I saw the great sale this past Black Friday and finally bit the bullet, both we’re sold out and gone a couple days later.

Any chance the demon could convince the banana to repress some iconic CODE RED titles that are now OOP?

[Frightener22]

"BLOCKBUSTER NEWS!! You are looking at the inside of the telecine bay at Fotokem where the Demon and our top technician worked on the transfer and restoration on the US theatrical print for THE GATES OF HELL late Thursday night in Los Angeles. Here’s the great news!! This US 35mm print we uncovered is incredible! The colors and contrast are so rich it looks like I.B. Tech!! And truly has that nostalgic drive-in feel and best of all THE GATES OF HELL main titles. Guaranteed this one will feature a whole different look and feel than previous releases. We are super excited about this and stay tuned for more explosive news on our huge #6 (666) Dark Force Drive-In release:
darkforcesuperstore.com"

[bipbop13]

Originally Posted by Monroville

(I hate it when people do this) If you don't want to answer questions or provide any extra info or insight, then just don't answer the post.

The question was asked to a reply I posted after I'd done quite a bit of research myself, so that was my reply. If you didn't like my reply YOU didn't need to reply either. Get over it.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Frightener22

"BLOCKBUSTER NEWS!! You are looking at the inside of the telecine bay at Fotokem where the Demon and our top technician worked on the transfer and restoration on the US theatrical print for THE GATES OF HELL late Thursday night in Los Angeles. Here’s the great news!! This US 35mm print we uncovered is incredible! The colors and contrast are so rich it looks like I.B. Tech!! And truly has that nostalgic drive-in feel and best of all THE GATES OF HELL main titles. Guaranteed this one will feature a whole different look and feel than previous releases. We are super excited about this and stay tuned for more explosive news on our huge #6 (666) Dark Force Drive-In release:
darkforcesuperstore.com"

[Show spoiler]

This release will be an interesting "alternate" version of the film since I consider the Arrow edition the definitive release, but still very happy to add this to my library. Who knows - maybe I'll actually end up liking this "colorful" version more

[ThatDeviantGuy]

I'll be waiting to watch Gates of Hell for the first time on the upcoming Scorpion disc, I think it's cool putting theatrical prints on Blu-ray but I'd rather see it uncut for the first time.

[jcs913]

I hope the run time on that print is correct....

[John Lyons]

Turns out I actually have more info on the (ever increasing) versions of LAST VICTIM/FORCED ENTRY!

Tonight I compared the 2 (!) theatrical cuts of the FORCED ENTRY recut, both of which differ dramatically from the Harmony tape...

What both versions of the theatrical cut have in common, quite interestingly, is the complete absence of ALL of the inserts of Nancy Allen's body double being abused on the beach.
It's worth noting that, as with the Intervision VHS of THE LAST VICTIM, wherein these bits are poorly inserted into an unrelated scene, with jarring and visible splices in the picture and soundtrack, the same is true on the Harmony tape of FE. As such, it can be deduced that these bits were never properly integrated into any theatrical version of the film, despite having been shot in the same batch of inserts as the bicycle girl and forest murders.

Perhaps more fascinating is that both versions of the FE theatrical cut do not repeat the rape/killing part of the opening forest murder. In both theatrical versions, the opening forest murder scene cuts midway through, right after the killer corners his victim in the woods. The conclusion of the scene only appears later on (as also seen in the tape), edited into a driving scene. It's notable that the full version which opens the Harmony tape (and is presented identically in the Intervision LAST VICTIM release) is considerably more explicit. Both versions of the FE theatrical cut cut around the more graphic shots of the killer removing his victim's skirt and underwear and also omit a couple shots on him on top of her. If anyone has the Harmony tape, watch the scene as it plays out at the 40 min (or so) mark as this is identical to both theatrical cuts. The opening version of the scene, as present in both theatrical versions, cuts off just after the 10 min mark in the Harmony tape when the killer grabs his victim.
As such, it's likely that the full version of this footage, like the beach inserts, was cut into the print Harmony used and sourced from a different element.

Now for the differences between the two theatrical cuts!
The first, released in 1981, aside from the elongated opening kill and beach inserts cut into the Harmony version, is otherwise identical to that tape.
Then in 1983, for reasons unknown, the montage of zooms into buildings used as the epilogue in the 1981 theatrical cut was relocated to the beginning of the film and bizarrely repurposed as a pre-title sequence, resulting in the repeated shot of the kids going into the house at the end, which in the first theatrical version of FE, bookends the building zooms, simply plays twice in succession in the 1983 recut. This re-edit also removes my personal favorite part of the FE restructure, a roughly 2 min bit of driving around LA, directly following the main titles.

So, in conclusion, we have confirmed (at least) three different theatrical versions of the film: the original LAST VICTIM edit along with the two FE theatrical cuts...And on top of that we have the still bizarre Intervision video version (which might be one of the later iterations on the film when it was reissued theatrically between 1977-80 with such titles as Rape in the Suburbs and On Your Grave in the Suburbs (!!!)) with all of the nude scenes/inserts, plus the new discovery of the fact that the Harmony tape is itself a bastardization of seemingly a couple different cuts assembled into one, but not representing either of the actual theatrical versions of FE.

EDIT: It was brought to my attention that the Intervision tape removes the implied bottle penetration present in the FORCED ENTRY Harmony version. I checked the theatrical FE cuts and they also do no not include the bottle footage. Another difference between the theatrical cuts and the tape!

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

Turns out I actually have more info on the (ever increasing) versions of LAST VICTIM/FORCED ENTRY!

Tonight I compared the 2 (!) theatrical cuts of the FORCED ENTRY recut, both of which differ dramatically from the Harmony tape...

What both versions of the theatrical cut have in common, quite interestingly, is the complete absence of ALL of the inserts of Nancy Allen's body double being abused on the beach.
It's worth noting that, as with the Intervision VHS of THE LAST VICTIM, wherein these bits are poorly inserted into an unrelated scene, with jarring and visible splices in the picture and soundtrack, the same is true on the Harmony tape of FE. As such, it can be deduced that these bits were never properly integrated into any theatrical version of the film, despite having been shot in the same batch of inserts as the bicycle girl and forest murders.

Perhaps more fascinating is that both versions of the FE theatrical cut do not repeat the rape/killing part of the opening forest murder. In both theatrical versions, the opening forest murder scene cuts midway through, right after the killer corners his victim in the woods. The conclusion of the scene only appears later on (as also seen in the tape), edited into a driving scene. It's notable that the full version which opens the Harmony tape (and is presented identically in the Intervision LAST VICTIM release) is considerably more explicit. Both versions of the FE theatrical cut cut around the more graphic shots of the killer removing his victim's skirt and underwear and also omit a couple shots on him on top of her. If anyone has the Harmony tape, watch the scene as it plays out at the 40 min (or so) mark as this is identical to both theatrical cuts. The opening version of the scene, as present in both theatrical versions, cuts off just after the 10 min mark in the Harmony tape when the killer grabs his victim.
As such, it's likely that the full version of this footage, like the beach inserts, was cut into the print Harmony used and sourced from a different element.

Now for the differences between the two theatrical cuts!
The first, released in 1981, aside from the elongated opening kill and beach inserts cut into the Harmony version, is otherwise identical to that tape.
Then in 1983, for reasons unknown, the montage of zooms into buildings used as the epilogue in the 1981 theatrical cut was relocated to the beginning of the film and bizarrely repurposed as a pre-title sequence, resulting in the repeated shot of the kids going into the house at the end, which in the first theatrical version of FE, bookends the building zooms, simply simply plays twice in succession in the 1983 recut. This re-edit also removes my personal favorite part of the FE restructure, a roughly 2 min bit of driving around LA, directly following the main titles.

So, in conclusion, we have confirmed (at least) three different theatrical versions of the film: the original LAST VICTIM edit along with the two FE theatrical cuts...And on top of that we have the still bizarre Intervision video version (which might be one of the later iterations on the film when it was reissued theatrically between 1977-80 with such titles as Rape in the Suburbs and On Your Grave in the Suburbs (!!!)) with all of the nude scenes/inserts, plus the new discovery of the fact that the Harmony tape is itself a bastardization of seemingly a couple different cuts assembled into one, but not representing either of the actual theatrical versions of FE.

Wow, this is confusing with all the versions. I just checked my Harmony Vision tape of FE which is copyright 1982 (not 1983 or 1984 as some have speculated). Since this release was '82, it may have been shown in the theaters like this in 1980 or 1981.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by Monroville

(I hate it when people do this) If you don't want to answer questions or provide any extra info or insight, then just don't answer the post.

On the one hand, that was an annoying response. On the other, he had no way of knowing that I did actually do quite a lot of reading on it. Unfortunately, I couldn't hammer down, with accuracy, whether or not the original cut was truly safe for me to watch. Thankfully Lyons was able to confirm that The Last Victim cut on the blu is not one of the rape cuts. It may seem arbitrary to some, however, where I'm fine with nudity and depictions of consenting adults and implications of sexual violence, I try very hard to never watch graphic depictions of rape. I saw enough violence back in my criminologist days and it isn't always healthy to stuff all that into your mind. People have different tolerances. I wouldn't have asked if I hadn't hit a wall in my search for information.

Originally Posted by Cinema84

This release will be an interesting "alternate" version of the film since I consider the Arrow edition the definitive release, but still very happy to add this to my library. Who knows - maybe I'll actually end up liking this "colorful" version more

I'm starting to think, based on viewing a couple of the other drive in features, that there is a place for multiple releases. If you're in the mood for that style, it can be quite fun. In the DVD market, some of those mill creek sets with oddball collections of films, that predated the blu releases of films like Trip With The Teacher, were genuine fun to get a hold of and watch in mini-marathon form, two or three films at a time. The quality was terrible but, still, it was really a joy. I still really want to know what the other film is going to be.

Originally Posted by John Lyons

Close, but not quite.
The original PG cut does not include any nudity and all of the rapes/killings are off screen. The only on screen violence is at the very end....

Thank you, thank you, thank you. The detailed but not terribly graphic information you provided confirmed that The Last Victim is a film I would want to see and would be able to enjoy. I'd stopped a Forced Entry cut years ago, never finishing the film, as I'm just not into rape films that move beyond the suggestion of the crime or very limited, tolerable depictions. Incubus is about as far as I go with that. It is terrifying, which is what you want in a horror film, but not truly horrific or too contaminating. Thanks again. Picked up a copy.

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

Turns out I actually have more info on the (ever increasing) versions of LAST VICTIM/FORCED ENTRY!

Tonight I compared the 2 (!) theatrical cuts of the FORCED ENTRY recut, both of which differ dramatically from the Harmony tape...

What both versions of the theatrical cut have in common, quite interestingly, is the complete absence of ALL of the inserts of Nancy Allen's body double being abused on the beach.
It's worth noting that, as with the Intervision VHS of THE LAST VICTIM, wherein these bits are poorly inserted into an unrelated scene, with jarring and visible splices in the picture and soundtrack, the same is true on the Harmony tape of FE. As such, it can be deduced that these bits were never properly integrated into any theatrical version of the film, despite having been shot in the same batch of inserts as the bicycle girl and forest murders.

Perhaps more fascinating is that both versions of the FE theatrical cut do not repeat the rape/killing part of the opening forest murder. In both theatrical versions, the opening forest murder scene cuts midway through, right after the killer corners his victim in the woods. The conclusion of the scene only appears later on (as also seen in the tape), edited into a driving scene. It's notable that the full version which opens the Harmony tape (and is presented identically in the Intervision LAST VICTIM release) is considerably more explicit. Both versions of the FE theatrical cut cut around the more graphic shots of the killer removing his victim's skirt and underwear and also omit a couple shots on him on top of her. If anyone has the Harmony tape, watch the scene as it plays out at the 40 min (or so) mark as this is identical to both theatrical cuts. The opening version of the scene, as present in both theatrical versions, cuts off just after the 10 min mark in the Harmony tape when the killer grabs his victim.
As such, it's likely that the full version of this footage, like the beach inserts, was cut into the print Harmony used and sourced from a different element.

Now for the differences between the two theatrical cuts!
The first, released in 1981, aside from the elongated opening kill and beach inserts cut into the Harmony version, is otherwise identical to that tape.
Then in 1983, for reasons unknown, the montage of zooms into buildings used as the epilogue in the 1981 theatrical cut was relocated to the beginning of the film and bizarrely repurposed as a pre-title sequence, resulting in the repeated shot of the kids going into the house at the end, which in the first theatrical version of FE, bookends the building zooms, simply plays twice in succession in the 1983 recut. This re-edit also removes my personal favorite part of the FE restructure, a roughly 2 min bit of driving around LA, directly following the main titles.

So, in conclusion, we have confirmed (at least) three different theatrical versions of the film: the original LAST VICTIM edit along with the two FE theatrical cuts...And on top of that we have the still bizarre Intervision video version (which might be one of the later iterations on the film when it was reissued theatrically between 1977-80 with such titles as Rape in the Suburbs and On Your Grave in the Suburbs (!!!)) with all of the nude scenes/inserts, plus the new discovery of the fact that the Harmony tape is itself a bastardization of seemingly a couple different cuts assembled into one, but not representing either of the actual theatrical versions of FE.

EDIT: It was brought to my attention that the Intervision tape removes the implied bottle penetration present in the FORCED ENTRY Harmony version. I checked the theatrical FE cuts and they also do no not include the bottle footage. Another difference between the theatrical cuts and the tape!

The 2 DF director's cut versions have way better color than the old Harmony Vision tape, which isn't bad for VHS but I compared the 3 versions (LAST VICTIM 75 min. DC, FORCED ENTRY 72 min. DC, and the 88 min. HV tape and I can tell you the scene where a young woman is stranded by her car, and then soon raped by the maniac in the woods is NOT in either of the directors cuts, only the HV tape, although a brief version of the rape appears as a flashback later on the FE DC, so the HV tape wins in that department.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

The 2 DF director's cut versions have way better color than the old Harmony Vision tape, which isn't bad for VHS but I compared the 3 versions (LAST VICTIM 75 min. DC, FORCED ENTRY 72 min. DC, and the 88 min. HV tape and I can tell you the scene where a young woman is stranded by her car, and then soon raped by the maniac in the woods is NOT in either of the directors cuts, only the HV tape, although a brief version of the rape appears as a flashback later on the FE DC, so the HV tape wins in that department.

The HV tape sounds like it certainly has the most runtime, but personally I wouldn't want all those crudely added inserts with body doubles that apparently were not something the director wanted anyway based on his directors cuts and the above research found on the theatrical cuts. So for me those extra scenes are not a "win" per se.

Given also the theatrical cuts found by above poster don't have most of these inserts either, I have to wonder who exactly added them into the HV VHS release in the first place?

[John Lyons]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The HV tape sounds like it certainly has the most runtime, but personally I wouldn't want all those crudely added inserts with body doubles that apparently were not something the director wanted anyway based on his directors cuts and the above research found on the theatrical cuts. So for me those extra scenes are not a "win" per se.

Given also the theatrical cuts found by above poster don't have most of these inserts either, I have to wonder who exactly added them into the HV VHS release in the first place?

I think you misread some of my notes.
The original theatrical version(s) of FORCED ENTRY include two of the three insert/reshoot sequences, albeit in different versions than in the Harmony and Intervision tapes.
Considering that Sotos himself shot all of those scenes and edited them into the film when he recut it into the FE version, they absolutely were what he wanted (in 1981).
Furthermore, since apparently he confirmed that the Harmony VHS release was legitimately licensed from him, the version of the film that he supplied to them, with the additional inserts, is also, presumably, something that he wanted.

Unfortunately, based on the number of different versions of the film that have come out in it's 44 year lifespan, it appears that what Sotos actually wanted out of the film changed almost seasonally.