Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The HV tape sounds like it certainly has the most runtime, but personally I wouldn't want all those crudely added inserts with body doubles that apparently were not something the director wanted anyway based on his directors cuts and the above research found on the theatrical cuts. So for me those extra scenes are not a "win" per se.

Given also the theatrical cuts found by above poster don't have most of these inserts either, I have to wonder who exactly added them into the HV VHS release in the first place?

Didn't notice any body doubles in the HV tape at all. The rape scene (woman who's car broke down he pretends to help fix her engine, then takes her into the woods and rapes her) doesn't seem like an insert as it lasts a while (maybe a deleted scene) but I can't be sure.

[Member-222782]

I'm glad to have this film in my collection but can't help but think what Vinegar Syndrome could do with it if they had access to a good element. I don't know what condition Jim Sotos is in health-wise but he could be an invaluable source of info on a commentary and help sort this mess out. The whole saga would make for a fascinating documentary.

[John Lyons]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

Didn't notice any body doubles in the HV tape at all. The rape scene (woman who's car broke down he pretends to help fix her engine, then takes her into the woods and rapes her) doesn't seem like an insert as it lasts a while (maybe a deleted scene) but I can't be sure.

That scene with the woman with the broken down car was one of the three insert shoots done by Sotos c. 1979/80, 4-5 years after the original version was finished. Note that the killer's face is deliberately obscured in this sequence, presumably because he couldn't (or didn't want to) get the same actor back for these shoots.
The other inserts are the sequence with the bicycle woman bound in the garage where, once again, her face and that of the killer are deliberately off camera, and finally the shots on Nancy Allen's (body double) character on the beach...Ditto with off screen/obscured faces of both victim and killer.
Dating the insert shoots was tricky but eventually 1979/80 was decided on, at least for the opening car bit, due to the car itself being a 1979 MGB Roadster. The other two sequences, each of which are optically printed slow motion, might have been shot earlier, but they definitely were all done on the East Coast.
My guess is that the uncredited actress used in the car sequence also portrays the bicycle girl and hitch hiker in the other two insert scenes and that as such, all three were done around the same time.

The car used in the opening:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1979-mg-mgb-2/

[John Lyons]

Originally Posted by Cinema84

I'm glad to have this film in my collection but can't help but think what Vinegar Syndrome could do with it if they had access to a good element. I don't know what condition Jim Sotos is in health-wise but he could be an invaluable source of info on a commentary and help sort this mess out. The whole saga would make for a fascinating documentary.

That's not gonna happen.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

That's not gonna happen.

I know it's not. Just suggesting VS could do wonders with it

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

That scene with the woman with the broken down car was one of the three insert shoots done by Sotos c. 1979/80, 4-5 years after the original version was finished. Note that the killer's face is deliberately obscured in this sequence, presumably because he couldn't (or didn't want to) get the same actor back for these shoots.
The other inserts are the sequence with the bicycle woman bound in the garage where, once again, her face and that of the killer are deliberately off camera, and finally the shots on Nancy Allen's (body double) character on the beach...Ditto with off screen/obscured faces of both victim and killer.
Dating the insert shoots was tricky but eventually 1979/80 was decided on, at least for the opening car bit, due to the car itself being a 1979 MGB Roadster. The other two sequences, each of which are optically printed slow motion, might have been shot earlier, but they definitely were all done on the East Coast.
My guess is that the uncredited actress used in the car sequence also portrays the bicycle girl and hitch hiker in the other two insert scenes and that as such, all three were done around the same time.

The car used in the opening:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1979-mg-mgb-2/

As far as inserts, what you say makes sense. So which the longest version of all would be the HV tape at 88 min? I know the UK tape is 83:51 PAL (about 86 NTSC).

[John Lyons]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

As far as inserts, what you say makes sense. So which the longest version of all would be the HV tape at 88 min? I know the UK tape is 83:51 PAL (about 86 NTSC).

There is no tape release of any of the actual (confirmed) theatrical cuts.
The UK tape is the closest to the original cut, if you remove the inserts.

Simply based on runtime, the Harmony tape is longest, but remember that the Forced Entry version has the Last Victim footage shuffled around and with a voiceover so it's not at all like the original version from 1975.

[Zarak]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

Unfortunately, based on the number of different versions of the film that have come out in it's 44 year lifespan, it appears that what Sotos actually wanted out of the film changed almost seasonally.

Sounds like it might make the most sense to label them all as director's cuts but by year, if they could be definitively dated: 1980 Director's Cut, 1981 Director's Cut, 1982 Q2 Director's Cut, 1982 Q4 Director's Cut, Whatever-the-Year-of-the-Latest-Director's Cut, etc.

[cloudnine]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

There is no tape release of any of the actual (confirmed) theatrical cuts.
The UK tape is the closest to the original cut, if you remove the inserts.

Simply based on runtime, the Harmony tape is longest, but remember that the Forced Entry version has the Last Victim footage shuffled around and with a voiceover so it's not at all like the original version from 1975.

The only thing on the 2 directors cuts (LV & FE) that's missing from the HV tape is the collage of b&w photos in the beginning of LV. The Harmony tape has a much longer extended ending.

[TripleHBK]

Reading about all these various edits and versions has proven to be more interesting to me than the film itself. I'd previously had little to no desire to pick this up but the more I keep hearing/reading the more interested I've become. This sounds like it'd make for an excellent special feature on a future release (that will likely never happen). Too bad a ultimate Blade Runner style edition couldn't be assembled which included these most recent cuts in addition to everything that had came before.

[rdodolak]

Here's an interesting blog article that collects some of the newspaper articles and movie ads.

http://templeofschlock.blogspot.com/...s-of-last.html

[John Lyons]

Originally Posted by cloudnine

The only thing on the 2 directors cuts (LV & FE) that's missing from the HV tape is the collage of b&w photos in the beginning of LV. The Harmony tape has a much longer extended ending.

The ending in both the LAST VICTIM and FORCED ENTRY cuts (both theatrical and VHS) is identical, except the epilogue in the FE recut which was tagged on.
Aside from that, the last 35 min of both cuts, once the housewife gets ready for her shower through the final shot, is the same.

What's been shortened in the latest recuts?

[HorrorBlu]

Originally Posted by John Lyons

The ending in both the LAST VICTIM and FORCED ENTRY cuts (both theatrical and VHS) is identical, except the epilogue in the FE recut which was tagged on.
Aside from that, the last 35 min of both cuts, once the housewife gets ready for her shower through the final shot, is the same.

What's been shortened in the latest recuts?

I only watched the 75 minute Last Victim cut on the new disc, but I'll skim my VHS rip of the 88 minute version in a little bit and see what jumps out.

[HorrorBlu]

Okay, this is looking specifically at two versions of the movie:

-The Last Victim 75 minutes included on Dark Force's blu-ray
-Forced Entry 88 minute VHS rip

Bear in mind, I watched the blu-ray a few nights ago, and I only skimmed the 88 minute version for what I missed. So this isn't too specific. I'm recapping the blu-ray from memory.

As previously mentioned, there is no nudity in the 75 minute blu-ray cut of the movie, aside from Tanya Roberts through a translucent shower door.

Right off the bat, the opening credits with the city footage and him dumping the body on the beach seem much longer on the VHS and feature narration from the killer.

From here, the movie has definitely been re-arranged quite a bit.

On the blu-ray, right after the opening credits, there is a scene where Tanya Roberts drops her kids off at school and passes by the killer on her drive home. This scene happens around the 32 minute mark on the VHS version. At home she receives a phone call from the killer. This happens around the 50 minute mark on the VHS. Basically what this does is it puts Tanya Roberts in the killer's crosshairs right from the get go in the 75 minute blu-ray version. The VHS version takes some time setting up the two characters on their own before they cross paths.

So basically The Last Victim cut sets up that he already knows her from around town and the garage where he works, even though she's not necessarily familiar with him. He even already knows her address and phone number!

The 88 minute Forced Entry cut takes a little time, setting up Tanya Roberts' home life with her husband and kids. The first time we see the killer after the opening credits is the graphic rape and murder of the stranded motorist (not shown in the 75 minute cut). From there, it sets up his apartment life and his job at the garage. The killer and Tanya Roberts do not cross paths until the 18 minute mark, when she drops her car off at the garage and he gives her a ride home. This cut assumes this is the first time he sees her, and sets up how he knows where she lives. He still gives her a ride home in the 75-minute blu-ray cut, but the implication is that he already knows her and where she lives, and this is his first opportunity to actually talk with this woman he has been obsessing over.

The couple at the gas station who he spies on in the bathroom is still in the blu-ray cut. As is the bicyclist who he kills, however her graphic rape isn't shown. The blu-ray cut only shows a single tracking shot through the garage that ends on her dead body. I could be mistaken, but on the 88 minute VHS cut, it looks like this newly shot rape footage was spliced right into the middle of this tracking shot, splitting the full shot in two.

Some of the padding in the 88 minute version is the killer sitting around dreaming about Tanya Roberts and her family, and also driving around as he flashbacks to the earlier rape and murder of the stranded motorist, complete with narration from the mind of the killer.

The murder of Nancy Allen's character is pretty much depicted the same on the blu-ray (cut to black, guy finds her on the beach), only in the following scene the 88 minute version adds a flashback where it shows her graphic rape and murder on the beach.

Again, I only skimmed the 88 minute cut, so I could be wrong. But I didn't notice anything drastically different about the entire Tanya Roberts home invasion third act. It looks like everything plays out pretty much the same. The blu-ray cut ends with an exterior shot of the house and her kids arriving home from school. The VHS tacks on an extra two minutes, showing building exteriors with narrative testimonials of people who knew the killer and never would have suspected. It caps off with one final exterior of shot of Tanya Roberts' house and her character briefly narrating about her PTSD from the incident.

Don't take this as the gospel, because again I'm comparing the blu-ray cut from memory having watched it a few nights ago. But those were the major differences I noticed from the two cuts. The movie has been drastically re-arranged, but the 75 minute cut seems to include most if not all of the footage from the original shoot included on the Forced Entry VHS. The additional 13 minutes on the VHS seems to be padded by the rape footage shot years after the fact, as well as flashbacks and exterior shots with narration.

[John Lyons]

In the actual original LAST VICTIM cut, the credits are not over city footage, which was shot in LA (the original film was shot in the NY area) in 1981, but rather a plain black background behind which a radio talk show about the series of ongoing murders plays. This is followed immediately by the shot of the car driving up and dumping the body by the bridge.
Tanya Roberts character isn't introduced until almost a third of the way through and there are zero flashbacks of any sort and no nudity except for the non-explicit shot of her in the shower through the fogged glass.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Zarak

Sounds like it might make the most sense to label them all as director's cuts but by year, if they could be definitively dated: 1980 Director's Cut, 1981 Director's Cut, 1982 Q2 Director's Cut, 1982 Q4 Director's Cut, Whatever-the-Year-of-the-Latest-Director's Cut, etc.

If I recall I believe the directors cuts of both Last Victim and Forced Entry on the Dark Force disc are credited as created in 2008.

[bruce holecheck]

Rock Shock Pop reviews Code Red's THE LAST VICTIM, including some comparisons to the 88-minute VHS. (Some screencaps NSFW.)

http://www.rockshockpop.com/forums/c...Blu-ray-Review

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx

Wish they were selling Neon Maniacs by itself.

https://www.diabolikdvd.com/product/...e-red-blu-ray/

[xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx]

Originally Posted by gbm82

https://www.diabolikdvd.com/product/...e-red-blu-ray/

Dude seriously holy shit thank you. Just ordered a copy.

[Fiocca_Cola]

Originally Posted by gbm82

https://www.diabolikdvd.com/product/...e-red-blu-ray/

Mary Mary too
https://www.diabolikdvd.com/product/...e-red-blu-ray/