Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Welcome to the digital future:

Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.

https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Welcome to the digital future:


https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

Holy cow that is f***** up. I would be furious if some program just deleted my music, photos, or whatever because it wanted to make things easier for me. Seriously that is messed up. There is way too much wrong with that.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Welcome to the digital future:


https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

Since forum rules prevent foul language I have nothing to say about Apple's practices.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Yeah, that is pretty bad. And the problem is that the info explaining this would happen and that you are agreeing to it is buried in some 30+ page Terms of Service Agreement.

Whenever people say "you should have read it," I just roll my eyes. In a day and age where it seems EVERYTHING has some kind of TOS or EULA... every time a device/game console has an update, any time software or service (like Itunes) has an update, anytime you buy software/content digitially, etc.... how is it realistic to expect people to sit down and read (much less understand the impact and each and every point) in every one of these agreements each time they happen to "pop up"?

There really should be legal limits placed on what can be buried in these agreements and not explained elsewhere (this particular issue could have been avoided if, when going to use this program/service, a window popped up explaining what would happen to the person's digital files on their computer), AND there should be very strict limits of what these companies can legally "absolve" themselves of in them as well.

It's like after that Sony PSN hack in 2011, when they then threw in a clause in their updated service agreement about not being able to sue them over such an event going forward... which is insane because you HAVE to agree to it just to maintain access to the content that you previously bought.


And as these agreement updates and this Apple music service show.... to those who are all in favor of digital distribution, while you may not see a scenario now where you content could be compromised in some way, this is a prime example of the kinds of running changes that can happen that can impact you in ways that you probably can't (or at least don't) imagine currently.




The best part of the article IMO is the part where the Apple service rep said that she doesn't use this service because of it deleting music from the user's computer. That's one hell of an endorsement right there from one of Apple's own employees.

[doctor_who]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Welcome to the digital future:


https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

One random blogger's comments does not make it true.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

One random blogger's comments does not make it true.

Its a sign of things to come.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by doctor_who

One random blogger's comments does not make it true.

I don't see what the person has to gain from lying. There are other people who have experienced the same thing. While the two articles linked below do reference the previously linked blog post, they also have statements about others experiencing the same thing.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/maryanngeor...1yv#.amwKgWYmE

https://consumerist.com/2016/05/05/a...up-your-files/


And here's an article that tries to blame this on user error...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...#ixzz47sYxGqht

...but goes on to admit that the service and options are confusing, and makes blatantly contradictory statements like the following:

The site warns that while the service is not designed to delete files from people's computers, users should be aware of reference files and multiple libraries, which could lead to tracks being permanently deleted.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

And as these agreement updates and this Apple music service show.... to those who are all in favor of digital distribution, while you may not see a scenario now where you content could be compromised in some way, this is a prime example of the kinds of running changes that can happen that can impact you in ways that you probably can't (or at least don't) imagine currently.

All of the digital movie services (iTunes, Amazon, VUDU, Ultraviolet, etc...) state in their terms of service that they can remove access to any content at anytime for any reason. But the people who use these services generally just respond with "it hasn't happened to me" and call others paranoid for thinking that any content will ever be lost.

Whether or not these companies will take your content away you should never support a product where they can take it away. With physical media no one has the legal right to ever take anything away nor to prevent anything from being resold or given away. That's why I will never use anything else.

It's absurd how much control people are willing to sacrifice for a bit of convenience.

[Steedeel]

Thats why I think streaming will be a rental market. Digital HD doesnt have much of a future.

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Welcome to the digital future:

https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

I think this is stealing pure and simple, I never been a fan of streaming my music because it's useless if you don't have an internet access. I'm not on spotify, apple music or pandora. As an heavy apple user I'm very glad I didn't subscribed to apple music and I never intend to, I'll keep buying my music as I always did so I can access it wherever I want. (unless it's only in my iTunes library) So if I follow that logic if you buy a movie through your apple TV will it delete the digital copy if you have one? Streaming is like renting apple have no right to remove all the music you bought because you use a streaming service this is very wrong. If they do I'm sure they don't give it back when you leave the service.

[tob]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey Steedeel, at least you are talking some sense now. Anyone who basis their experience with Digital HD only with iTunes is like you say, not getting the Stunning Quality. They need to see and Experience HDX!

Steedeel has been talking sense from the very start.

[tiger_qc]

Originally Posted by tob

Steedeel has been talking sense from the very start.

He did but shouldn't have answered all of V40LLY's posts, he wasn't worth it, you shouldn't feed a troll.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

I think this is stealing pure and simple, I never been a fan of streaming my music because it's useless if you don't have an internet access. I'm not on spotify, apple music or pandora. As an heavy apple user I'm very glad I didn't subscribed to apple music and I never intend to, I'll keep buying my music as I always did so I can access it wherever I want. (unless it's only in my iTunes library) So if I follow that logic if you buy a movie through your apple TV will it delete the digital copy if you have one? Streaming is like renting apple have no right to remove all the music you bought because you use a streaming service this is very wrong. If they do I'm sure they don't give it back when you leave the service.

As this article is specific to music, I'm not sure how this would impact movies bought through iTunes and downloaded.

Presumably any content that you bought through iTunes you can redownload, but as the article states, this person had content that was not actually bought through iTunes, and were in some cases different recordings/versions of songs that Apple's programming "detected" as being the same, and proceeded to delete.

Even if that automated programming worked better and flawlessly to not delete any content that is an alternate version and/or was not bought through iTunes to start with, the fact that Apple apparently assumes that people would just want the content deleted upon signing up for this streaming is just asinine for many reasons.



But on the subject of replacing one version with another, Apple HAS done that with movies already. For example, long prior to Disney's "The Sword in the Stone" coming out on Blu-Ray, it had been released on iTunes using the same mastering as a prior DVD release.

When the movie came out on Blu-Ray almost 3 years ago, Disney had "remastered" it, but used an absurdly extensive amount of "noise reduction" and other artificial processes that alter the film in a manner that is not inherent to the true original source. Many scenes are flat out blurry, almost looking like a painting that got wet and the colors ran a bit/blurred as a result.

On iTunes, this new updated version with all of this tampering replaced the previous version for those who had bought it long before this tampered version came out. Technically if you had the previous version already downloaded, you could still watch that one, but if you ever had to redownload it later on, it would be this new, terrible looking version.

Here is the review of the Blu-Ray that goes into just how badly this was tampered with.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-S.../44743/#Review

So this sort of thing is also a concern with digital media... one version getting replaced by another, in which the updated version looks worse or is just less desirable to the end user based on their personal preferences. This is certainly a problem for anyone who buys a lot of movies through iTunes, doesn't keep all of them downloaded (only downloading a few at a time as needed so the hard drive doesn't fill up), and counting on the movies not only still being there to redownload later, but being the same versions that they originally paid for.

Imagine the potential ramifications of this if physical media were to go away completely. A filmmaker could make George-Lucas-like alternations to one or a few of their films, and go in and have those versions replace the original versions through services like iTunes, UV, Vudu, and so forth. If you don't have the original version downloaded and preserved, you will be SOL.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PCFan

Doesn't removing the DRM from iTunes copies require reencoding the file, reducing the image/audio quality in the process?

No.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Interesting about removing the DRM. Does that allow them to be played on other devices besides apple/iTunes compatible ones?

Yes. iTunes files are just standard MP4 files.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tiger_qc

He did but shouldn't have answered all of V40LLY's posts, he wasn't worth it, you shouldn't feed a troll.

Yes, I got dragged in. I get a bit too passionate for my own good sometimes.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Welcome to the digital future:


https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...-no-seriously/

This blog is complete BS. The person just doesn't understand how Apple Music works (not that I'm a big fan of it). It doesn't touch your original files unless you delete and redownload them yourself.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Yeah, that is pretty bad. And the problem is that the info explaining this would happen and that you are agreeing to it is buried in some 30+ page Terms of Service Agreement.

There is nothing of the sort in the TOS, since this does not happen the way it was described in the blog.

This blogger simply doesn't know what he's doing (which is partly Apple's fault, because Apple Music is a confusing mess).

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

There is nothing of the sort in the TOS, since this does not happen the way it was described in the blog.

This blogger simply doesn't know what he's doing (which is partly Apple's fault, because Apple Music is a confusing mess).

For the sake of argument, let's say that the blogger is mistaken on how it works and what he says isn't completely accurate.

As you stated here, Apple Music is a confusing mess, and apparently there must be some option that the user can click on or something that results in the music being removed/deleted from their computer without it being obvious to them that whatever they did would result in that.

And if this is effecting files that cannot be recovered for one reason or another, then that is a HUGE problem, and it's just another issue with digital distribution and these companies having options, software, etc. that can alter, remove, or in some way impact the files on your computer without you knowing it until it's too late.


It's kind of like the different between someone kicking someone else in the shin or punching them in the face. Technically they are two different things, so to say one happened when it was in fact the other would not be accurate, but either way the person who received the punch or kick was still injured. You can argue that one is worse then the other, but neither is desirable to begin with.



Furthermore, even if in this specific instance this issue was not in the Terms of Service agreement (which I'll take your word on for the sake of this argument at least), my overall point about the type of things that are often buried in those agreements and the absurdity of these companies expecting people to read through them in their entirety still stands.

Imagine if every time you went to any kind of retail store to buy some mundane item, you have to agree to some long-ass contract for it. And if you are buying multiple items (like people often do especially in the case of grocery shopping), you had to agree to something like that for each individual item. I'm sure that people would protest severely and legislation would be passed down preventing it. But for whatever reason in the digital realm, this is perfectly okay. I'm not saying there shouldn't be TOSA's at all, but there should be limits on what they can bury in there, and consumer rights should be significantly taken into consideration.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

For the sake of argument, let's say that the blogger is mistaken on how it works and what he says isn't completely accurate.

As you stated here, Apple Music is a confusing mess, and apparently there must be some option that the user can click on or something that results in the music being removed/deleted from their computer without it being obvious to them that whatever they did would result in that.

There isn't. You'd have to explicitly delete the files yourself on the original device. Here's a quote from Apple's support site:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204962

"When Apple Music adds these matched songs to your iCloud Music Library, Apple Music doesn’t change or alter your original music files that reside in iTunes for Mac or PC or on your iOS devices from which they were added. We make these matched songs available to your other computers or devices in high quality 256 Kbps AAC, and they can be played on them only while your Apple Music membership is active."

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Well more people besides this blogger have reported similar issues. So apparently something is happening. I find it hard to believe that by sheer coincidence all of these people are accidentally deleting their music files (and ONLY their music files) on their own independently of Apple Music, but at the same time that they just so happened to sign up for it and start using it for the first time.