Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by GuyIncognito

Why is this thread still a thing? Two and a half years and people don't know the pros and cons of each? Here, sticky this to the first post of this thread

Physical
Pros

• Audio/Video quality is better (maybe not by much, but better)
• No need to pay additional for internet service
• Once you own it, the studio cannot change what you own nor can they revoke your ownership for whatever reason
• You can buy used/secondary market copies for OOP titles
• You can sell your used copies that you no longer want
• You can arrange them on your shelf however you want

Cons

• Takes up space
• Discs can be damaged/lost/stolen
• They have to be delivered or you have to go to a store to get them
• Not as easy to share a collection with others

Digital
Pros

• Most movies are now available on digital before on disc
• Adding a new movie is instant
• Extremely cheap alternative when buying codes from other people or doing d2d
• Extremely convenient when you can use your remote to call upon a collection of thousands
• Access your entire collection wherever you can access the internet (pretty difficult to drag around 1000 blu-ray discs everywhere you go)
• Takes up zero physical space in your home
• Will never be damaged or lost (unless your account is hacked)
• Easily share a collection with friends/family

Cons

• Video/Audio quality is not equal (not horrible, but not equal)
• Once you buy a movie, there is no re-selling it on a secondary market. If a new version comes out, you now have to own both versions
• You must pay for a monthly ISP in order to access (if Internet goes down, your digital collection is inaccessible)
• Studios control what you watch and how you watch it (can't download UHD Vudu movies like you can with HDX for offline viewing)
• Titles can end up scattered across different ecosystems (iTunes, UV, Google, Amazon). Currently no streaming box that plays all four is there?
• Redeeming codes is not as simple as it should be. (Want this title in 4K? Redeem this studio on Vudu, this studio on their own website, this studio on iTunes and let it port through to Vudu to end up with 4K.). With blu-ray disc you know what you get.

There...end of debate

Way more to it than that, surely including where it may take us and what studios will pull out of their hats to mess it all up for movie lovers (which they will)

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I guess by definition Melodramatic means exaggerate, and I have been known to embellish but that is only to make a point. I have always said Digital HD will replace Disc, and I think this looks obvious now. Steedeel takes off on Tangens, that really don't make sense to a lot of us. Now with MA we can see Digital HD is where First Run Movies are going. Even Red Box sees the writing on the wall where Digital HD is going.

It will make sense when it happens Alchav. I have said before, even the industry knows Digital HD is never going to make up for dropping disc sales. Sure, it will be around for a while but like Itunes MP3 downloads before it, this is not the future. You are literally buying into a five or six year plan here.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by flyry

That's not the discussion though. People try to use having to have internet as a knock against digital as if the internet is not a way of life for everyone now.

We will always pay for internet if nothing else. Cable may die eventually, but we will still have the net.

I agree up to a point. And I do have subscriptions to services like Netflix and Hulu.

Still, I don't like relying on internet for more things than I absolutely need to. For one thing, we are dependent on the services and servers on the other end. So as per my previous post, if something happens to any of that, you can lose access to some or all of your paid for content.

We all pay for electricity, too, and that is absolutely needed to watch movies. But you don't need to conect to some device/service specific "server" for particular items to work, so that isn't as much of an issue.


Furthermore, comparatively speaking I've had far more issues with my internet service working consistently than my electricity. My electricity typically will only stop working as a result of a bad storm or something like that (and that's only if the storm effects local electrical lines, more of often then not it doesn't go down even during a storm). Meanwhile my internet service may randomly act up because it's Tuesday (not a literal reason, but any issues tend to be random like that). Sure, my internet works far more often than not, but the occasional issues still effect it more than my electrical service.

And even when I'm watching something on Netflix or Hulu, there are occasional quality dips/drops. It's one thing when I'm watching something on those services, but I don't want similar issues with titles that I'm actually purchasing.



Yeah, we all have internet. It doesn't mean that it would be a good idea for someone to make a toilet that requires internet in order to flush, and stops being able to flush if the internet goes down.

We all have water service, too, and need it for things like our toilets, sinks, bathtubs, showers, etc. Just because I have water service and will continue to have it doesn't mean that everything else in my home (my HT equipment, game systems, oven, refrigerator, microwave, etc.) should just arbitrarily be dependent upon it in order to function. Just because my oven and furnace require natural gas to function doesn't mean I want that as an arbitrary requirement for everything else either. And that's my attitude towards internet.


Sure, unlike those other comparisons, there is more of a similarity between the internet required and non-internet required options in this context, since it all results in watching movies, TV shows, etc. (as opposed to the function of say a furnace, needing gas service, and a toilet needing water service, which serve two completely different piurposes). But I still look at it from the view point of me wanting the fewest necessary/unavoidable external variables getting between me and my purchased movies/TV shows, or anything else that I buy and use for that matter.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by djluis2k6

I've gotten the digital copies redeemed in iTunes, but I've also purchased the HD versions of movies I own on Blu-Ray in iTunes as well.

If these movies are both VUDU D2D and MA compatible, you can get your old physical into iTunes much cheaper now. $2 for Bluray to digital HD. $5 for DVD to digital HD.

*

[flyry]

Originally Posted by veritas

People use it as a knock against digital because digital, netflix, gaming and youtube do literally equate to more money per month. you pay for speed with the internet and you pay for data both of which you only need because of a few high data usage activitys. on the extreme side if you wanted to go fully digital and watch lots of 4k movies you have to pay Comcast an extra 50 bucks a month just for your extra data usage.

People will always pay for the internet but digital has a habit of making people pay more for internet in general. Its like arguing that you cant say having a lawn makes you buy water because your house would already buy water anyway. The thing is that lawn makes your water bill higher and the same goes for digital.

This isn't the case with my ISP.

1 tb data on my new plan but they don't charge if you go over. Used to be 300 gb.

I do find it funny though all these examples you people are touting and talking down on your speed etc, you are still paying for that internet. Further emphasizing my point.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

This isn't the case with my ISP.

1 tb data on my new plan but they don't charge if you go over. Used to be 300 gb.

I do find it funny though all these examples you people are touting and talking down on your speed etc, you are still paying for that internet. Further emphasizing my point.

What point? That it costs a fortune if you want 4K content via streaming on a regular business? I have to agree.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What point? That it costs a fortune if you want 4K content via streaming on a regular business? I have to agree.

I do stream in 4k quite often and I rarely use more than a couple hundred GB per month. So I don't know where this "cost" is coming from other than your mothly internet package, which again you will pay for anyway.

It also cost a fortune to buy 4K discs from WB, but I digress

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I do stream in 4k quite often and I rarely use more than a couple hundred GB per month. So I don't know where this "cost" is coming from other than your mothly internet package, which again you will pay for anyway.

It also cost a fortune to buy 4K discs from WB, but I digress

Yes, but you could stream HD with regular broadband. Netflix offers a nice crisp 720p or 1080p picture for a very low bit rate. Most people can get by with a strong and generous broadband connection. The jump to fibre is far more expensive. You don’t really need fibre unless your family is HUGE and you need 4K. So it is extra expense.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, but you could stream HD with regular broadband. Netflix offers a nice crisp 720p or 1080p picture for a very low bit rate. Most people can get by with a strong and generous broadband connection. The jump to fibre is far more expensive. You don’t really need fibre unless your family is HUGE and you need 4K. So it is extra expense.

I don't have fiber. Nor gigabit. Just a plan that gets me 300mbps. I used to pay for 50mbps and could still stream 4k, but I'm paying less than before because I moved and they gave me a special.

My ISP estimates I can watch 140 HD movies in a month with my current data plan. I'll never even come close to that. Even if some are in 4K.

And most streaming content is still in HD.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

I don't have fiber. Nor gigabit. Just a plan that gets me 300mbps. I used to pay for 50mbps and could still stream 4k, but I'm paying less than before because I moved and they gave me a special.

My ISP estimates I can watch 140 HD movies in a month with my current data plan. I'll never even come close to that. Even if some are in 4K.

And most streaming content is still in HD.

I know it is but that is now. Unless you guys think Digital will be restricted to HD for the future?

That deal you have is outstanding. How much does that set you back if I may ask? Millions are not able to get that type of deal though.

[cwhite40]

The Toy Story of Terror iTunes file was changed from a 22 minute movie with the side movies as extras to one 45 min file with the extras proceeding the short film. My kids noticed right away and it’s kind of a pain to get to the extra short movies now.

It’s really an insignificant change in the big picture however it’s just a reminder of how little control we have over digital content. Maybe I’m way over particular with my movies, I just like to know nothing will ever change with the movies on my shelf.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by cwhite40

The Toy Story of Terror iTunes file was changed from a 22 minute movie with the side movies as extras to one 45 min file with the extras proceeding the short film. My kids noticed right away and it’s kind of a pain to get to the extra short movies now.

It’s really an insignificant change in the big picture however it’s just a reminder of how little control we have over digital content. Maybe I’m way over particular with my movies, I just like to know nothing will ever change with the movies on my shelf.

Something similar and worse than that happened with The Sword in the Stone through iTunes a few years ago.

The movie has been available through iTunes in HD for quite a while before it was released on Blu-Ray. It was based on the same master as the previous DVD release from a few years prior to the Blu-Ray release.

While that transfer wasn't perfect, Disney really botched the "remastering" of this film when it was coming out on Blu-Ray. It's a DNRed mess with some parts of the movie looking like smeared water colors or something (just look up the review on this site). So comparatively that previous master was actually better, even if not perfect.

Around the time that the Blu-Ray version came out, the iTunes file was "updated" to this version. People who had previously downloaded it before this happened could still watch the earlier version as long as they don't delete it and/or have it backed up, but if they ever were to need download it again, it would be the new version.

This is a huge problem for me as well. As nice as it is that some services are upgrading people's existing HD files to UHD for little or no additional cost, stuff like this is very worrisome to me. At least with disc releases I can make an informed decision on whether or not to rebuy/upgrade to a new edition instead of or in addition to one that I already have, and I don't have to worry about the content on existing discs being replaced with more problematic remasterings when they do occur.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cwhite40

The Toy Story of Terror iTunes file was changed from a 22 minute movie with the side movies as extras to one 45 min file with the extras proceeding the short film. My kids noticed right away and it’s kind of a pain to get to the extra short movies now.

It’s really an insignificant change in the big picture however it’s just a reminder of how little control we have over digital content. Maybe I’m way over particular with my movies, I just like to know nothing will ever change with the movies on my shelf.

It will be a very sad day IF we don’t have that option years from now.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I know it is but that is now. Unless you guys think Digital will be restricted to HD for the future?

That deal you have is outstanding. How much does that set you back if I may ask? Millions are not able to get that type of deal though.

Just the internet portion is $69.98. It is bundled with cable though (). It would be $30 more without TV included.

I do plan to cut the cord eventually and maybe go the sling tv route, but I've been lazy because all my apps on my TV and roku etc are tied to the cable login.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Just the internet portion is $69.98. It is bundled with cable though (). It would be $30 more without TV included.

I do plan to cut the cord eventually and maybe go the sling tv route, but I've been lazy because all my apps on my TV and roku etc are tied to the cable login.

So that’s about £55 or close enough I think. That’s a lot. I like football and my satellite company have me by the balls for that. I watch BBC ITV and C4 most (free broadcast tv) with Fox and Atlantic (HBO content) and Sky Sports. If it wasn’t for sport I would get a much cheaper package.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Something similar and worse than that happened with The Sword in the Stone through iTunes a few years ago.

The movie has been available through iTunes in HD for quite a while before it was released on Blu-Ray. It was based on the same master as the previous DVD release from a few years prior to the Blu-Ray release.

While that transfer wasn't perfect, Disney really botched the "remastering" of this film when it was coming out on Blu-Ray. It's a DNRed mess with some parts of the movie looking like smeared water colors or something (just look up the review on this site). So comparatively that previous master was actually better, even if not perfect.

Around the time that the Blu-Ray version came out, the iTunes file was "updated" to this version. People who had previously downloaded it before this happened could still watch the earlier version as long as they don't delete it and/or have it backed up, but if they ever were to need download it again, it would be the new version.

This is a huge problem for me as well. As nice as it is that some services are upgrading people's existing HD files to UHD for little or no additional cost, stuff like this is very worrisome to me. At least with disc releases I can make an informed decision on whether or not to rebuy/upgrade to a new edition instead of or in addition to one that I already have, and I don't have to worry about the content on existing discs being replaced with more problematic remasterings when they do occur.

About a month ago Blade Runner: The Final Cut in my iTunes account was changed to Spanish language with Spanish subtitles showing. 2 days later it was corrected. Also about 2 weeks ago Prometheus was removed from the iTunes store temporarily for a few hours and as a result I could not stream it to my Apple TV during those few hours but could still stream or download it to my PC but only in SD. If I would have downloaded these movies before these issues occurred I would not have known about these temporary issues as the downloaded movies would not have been affected. Issues like this, even if it's temporary, make me seriously consider going back to physical media.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by flyry

I don't have fiber. Nor gigabit. Just a plan that gets me 300mbps. I used to pay for 50mbps and could still stream 4k, but I'm paying less than before because I moved and they gave me a special.

My ISP estimates I can watch 140 HD movies in a month with my current data plan. I'll never even come close to that. Even if some are in 4K.

And most streaming content is still in HD.

And if you had a family of 4 then your family would be able to average 35 hd movies a month each or around 15 4k movies each. If your kid is a gamer and he goes digital rather then physical expect 10 to 15% of your data cap to be used per game he downloads (each game being between 70 and 100 gb these days). The thing is an average family that goes fully digital will end up needing to pay more for internet then a family that is mostly using physical media. They wont have to pay for as much speed and they wont hit as many data caps.

When you go digital you need a higher data cap and you need faster internet. going by your data usage you have 300mb/sec internet but you don't use that much data besides on movies. If you didn't have a digital library you could probably pay for a much cheaper and slower plan (at least that would be the case in general). When my dad decided to get netflix he literally decided the internet needed to be faster for it and he started paying more for internet because he was going digital.

In general people pay more for faster internet and for larger data caps. you might be lucky and have fast cheap internet that wouldn't be cheaper if you had slower internet with a lower data cap but in general the monopoly's don't allow that to happen because it doesn't maximize profit.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So that’s about £55 or close enough I think. That’s a lot. I like football and my satellite company have me by the balls for that. I watch BBC ITV and C4 most (free broadcast tv) with Fox and Atlantic (HBO content) and Sky Sports. If it wasn’t for sport I would get a much cheaper package.

It's not that much to me considering what cell phone providers charge. This is much less.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by veritas

And if you had a family of 4 then your family would be able to average 35 hd movies a month each or around 15 4k movies each. If your kid is a gamer and he goes digital rather then physical expect 10 to 15% of your data cap to be used per game he downloads (each game being between 70 and 100 gb these days). The thing is an average family that goes fully digital will end up needing to pay more for internet then a family that is mostly using physical media. They wont have to pay for as much speed and they wont hit as many data caps.

When you go digital you need a higher data cap and you need faster internet. going by your data usage you have 300mb/sec internet but you don't use that much data besides on movies. If you didn't have a digital library you could probably pay for a much cheaper and slower plan (at least that would be the case in general). When my dad decided to get netflix he literally decided the internet needed to be faster for it and he started paying more for internet because he was going digital.

The only reason I went to 300 was because of the special they gave me which made it a few dollars less than what I paid for 50. 50mbps was sufficient for 4k streaming.

Even with 300 GB "data cap" I only went over once or twice I believe when my wife was unemployed and streamed her life away and we went 200 gb over. (were not charged)

But yes you are correct I probably will stick with faster speeds from now on though

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I guess by definition Melodramatic means exaggerate, and I have been known to embellish but that is only to make a point. I have always said Digital HD will replace Disc, and I think this looks obvious now. Steedeel takes off on Tangens, that really don't make sense to a lot of us. Now with MA we can see Digital HD is where First Run Movies are going. Even Red Box sees the writing on the wall where Digital HD is going.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It will make sense when it happens Alchav. I have said before, even the industry knows Digital HD is never going to make up for dropping disc sales. Sure, it will be around for a while but like Itunes MP3 downloads before it, this is not the future. You are literally buying into a five or six year plan here.

The only thing that will happen is that Digital HD will take over. This Thread is about Physical or Digital, but in reality it's all the same. Discs are just Storage Devices, so you either Stream from a Disc or Server. So you tell me where Digital HD is going....I say Server! MA has shown us these Servers can Store and Stream our Movie Collection, I don't think Digital HD is going anywhere.