Killers of the Flower Moon (2023)

[Poya]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Amazing how reactionary types are bothered by what they perceive as some insidious "agenda" in movies dealing with social injustice but never utter a peep about movies whose conservative underlying message they happen to agree with - copaganda (Dirty Harry, End of Watch, Die Hard), American imperialism (a lot of super-hero movies), British imperialism (James Bond), patriotism and exceptionalism (ID4, almost every Hollywood war movies) etc.

Pretty sure The Dark Knight questioned the fascist nature of Batman.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Poya

Pretty sure The Dark Knight questioned the fascist nature of Batman.

That even becomes a joke in Blue Beetle

[Poya]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

That even becomes a joke in Blue Beetle

And an SNL sketch:

Wayne Thanksgiving - SNL - YouTube

It's no secret that he is. Frank Miller understood that in Returns and Nolan understood that in TDK.

[travisbickle]

Commie/marxist college professors have warped alot of minds in this thread.

[mwynn]

Will this be the first Scorsese thread that is locked?

[Hedrox]

So Leo plays the lead after all? that's kinda how the trailer sells it. I remember reading a while back how Jesse Plemons will play the main character while DiCaprio is just supporting.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

So Leo plays the lead after all? that's kinda how the trailer sells it. I remember reading a while back how Jesse Plemons will play the main character while DiCaprio is just supporting.

I think there was an earlier post where he complained and the script was rewritten.

[-JKR-]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

So Leo plays the lead after all? that's kinda how the trailer sells it. I remember reading a while back how Jesse Plemons will play the main character while DiCaprio is just supporting.

IIRC DiCaprio was originally up for the Jesse Plemons character and then decided to play this other role, which was then expanded.

[Hedrox]

Originally Posted by -JKR-

IIRC DiCaprio was originally up for the Jesse Plemons character and then decided to play this other role, which was then expanded.

Yeah, I did a little bit of research and found an article where Eric Roth, the screenwriter, talks about this:

“I wouldn’t say [Plemons is] the lead,” Roth said. “I would say that he was the designated hero. But yeah, I think that’s fairer because I think the parts are pretty equal and they were always equal to a certain extent, and Leo’s part is very complicated and very interesting. It’s a smart part for a smart actor to play.

It's weird that Plemons appears in only one shot in the trailer.

[-JKR-]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

Yeah, I did a little bit of research and found an article where Eric Roth, the screenwriter, talks about this:



It's weird that Plemons appears in only one shot in the trailer.

It's a teaser trailer for a very long movie. They've likely picked (what they considered) the most marketable elements, and are still hiding plenty of stuff. Which is perfectly fine, by the way.

Personally, I don't need to see more before the movie is released.

[Alhlan Ain Ajeeba]

For those in the knowing,I have a question. If I subscribe to apple tv plus,do I need to pay extra to watch this movie when its out??

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Alhlan Ain Ajeeba

For those in the knowing,I have a question. If I subscribe to apple tv plus,do I need to pay extra to watch this movie when its out??

No

[Alhlan Ain Ajeeba]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

No

Is it because its an apple tv production? Because for example,a movie from a diffrent studio like shazam 2 you pay extra on apple.

[Modren]

Originally Posted by Alhlan Ain Ajeeba

Is it because its an apple tv production? Because for example,a movie from a diffrent studio like shazam 2 you pay extra on apple.

Yes, all Apple productions are included with an Apple TV+ subscription. Though I expect that the movie will have some sort of delay between the theatrical release and when it shows up on Apple TV+, so I might not sign up for that service just for this movie.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Modren

Though I expect that the movie will have some sort of delay between the theatrical release and when it shows up on Apple TV+

They've already announced the dates. Oct. 6 theatrical, Oct. 20th on AppleTV+

[dancerslegs]

Originally Posted by mwynn

Will this be the first Scorsese thread that is locked?

I 100% expect it.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

So Leo plays the lead after all? that's kinda how the trailer sells it. I remember reading a while back how Jesse Plemons will play the main character while DiCaprio is just supporting.

You can see Plemons in the trailer. He's wearing this gigantic ten gallon hat. I think he hits DiCaprio in the interrogation room.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

They've already announced the dates. Oct. 6 theatrical, Oct. 20th on AppleTV+

You sure that's correct? I read 10/6 was limited releases, 10/20 was wide releases, and ATV+ later on.

[dkelly26666]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

You sure that's correct? I read 10/6 was limited releases, 10/20 was wide releases, and ATV+ later on.

It's not correct. You are.

Oct. 6 is a limited theatrical release; Oct. 20 is the wide theatrical release.

The Apple+ streaming debut will be at least 45 days (or more) after that. It may be on Apple by December, or it may be after the first of next year.

But it is correct that, if you subscribe to Apple, you don't have to pay extra to watch this film.

[cgpublic]

Illuminating interview from the NYT's (might be paywalled):

"I think Marty and I just looked at each other and we felt there was no soul to it,” DiCaprio said. “It was about an investigation, and I said to Marty, once you see De Niro as Hale, you’re going to go, ‘I think I know who did it.’ What are we going to unravel?”

And as the story gravitated toward those malevolent men, DiCaprio decided he would rather play Ernest instead of the lawman Tom White, a role Jesse Plemons (“The Power of the Dog”) stepped in to fill.

“The tricky thing was to work against this cliché of white savior," Plemons said. After all, it’s white people who perpetrated these crimes, too.

“He’s a sociopath. You don’t know why he would love them and betray them in such a way.” It wasn’t simply about money, De Niro said: Hale had plenty of it already. “Greed is a real condition, but it seems like a simpler word than what has happened,” he said. “Greed can make greedy people, but they don’t behave like that.”

So what was that additional motivation that led Hale and Ernest down such dark paths?

When asked, Scorsese didn’t mince words: It has to do with white supremacy, he said.

To be clear, I don't have an issue with taking an award-winning book, securing the rights, and then the filmmakers determine that the book as written is not a film that you believe audiences would want to watch, or on point, a film that you want to make.

That's the creative process. That's filmmaking. That's art.

It's just not the book. It's not even half the book. Once again, it's nowhere near the book.

Was race a factor in the Osage murders? Absolutely. Did those who held power over the Osage adhere to a racist train of thought? Once again, absolutely.

That said, there was a white FBI agent, who for all I know was a racist, and yet set aside whatever his personal beliefs may have been, and sought justice, independent of the race of the victims.

And that story has been set aside to simplify the message of the filmmakers.

That doesn't mean KOTFM is not a good film, or perhaps a great film, it's just the not the book, and more importantly, may not represent a more accurate and nuanced representation of the Osage murders.

And as someone who loved the book, and would loved to have screened a film adaptation of the book as written, it's a major disappointment.