The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

[Ironhorse75]

Originally Posted by sunnya23

How so? Remember, Bruce Wayne is Batman. He has mastered the art of stealth through League of Shadows training. After getting out of the pit it took him roughly 3 weeks to get back to Gotham. You are telling me he didn't have connections or resources to help him make that journey back to Gotham? Also, I highly doubt every entryway into Gotham was blocked, mainly just the bridges. Bane couldn't have cameras installed on every street of Gotham in addition to his men and the army making sure people got out or in. Also, being Batman I am sure he knows every single crack of Gotham city and knows the most secret paths and ways back to Gotham. After all, Bruce is no ordinary citizen of Gotham, we have seen him in all parts of Gotham throughout this trilogy. It is hardly surprising he got back to Gotham at all actually after thinking about all that.

Originally Posted by HarcourtMudd

In addition, he spent seven years running with the criminal element, and knew perfectly well how to get from place to place (obviously he would not have used his credit card, or he would have been traced). Boxcars, plains full of live poultry (reference?), etc are not beyond what he would/could utilize.

The explanation is so much easier than this, even though this works as well.

Remember that conversation on the bridge?

Army captain: (along these lines of) You don't have enough people to keep people from leaving the city.

Barsad: No, but you do.

The army has to prevent people from leaving the city, so isn't it obvious that they would simply let Batman in? The same way they let the special forces team in.

[Show spoiler]

[Bruinbrain85]

your wrong did Bruce Wayne just decide to tell the army hey it's Bruce Wayne and by the way Im Batman please let me in.

[sunnya23]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse75

The explanation is so much easier than this, even though this works as well.

Remember that conversation on the bridge?

Army captain: (along these lines of) You don't have enough people to keep people from leaving the city.

Barsad: No, but you do.

The army has to prevent people from leaving the city, so isn't it obvious that they would simply let Batman in? The same way they let the special forces team in.

[Show spoiler]

Haha!!! So true. But I think I remember that conversation, or Bane's speech at the football stadium, also stating that people cannot enter either. I might be wrong on that though, maybe I just thought if you can't leave you can't enter. However, the special forces team was not let in just like that. They had to disguise themselves as men bringing in food and supplies to Gotham. But otherwise, totally agree with what you said.

[sunnya23]

Originally Posted by Bruinbrain85

your wrong did Bruce Wayne just decide to tell the army hey it's Bruce Wayne and by the way Im Batman please let me in.

You are right about that. I think everything else ironhorse said is correct except for that last part. But like I said, Bruce Wayne knows how to get into Gotham without anyone noticing. He knows the secret pathways into Gotham and can use stealth to get around. Which I am sure he did. I don't know why people get hung up on this. It's like someone asking how does Batman get to the top of those buildings whenever they show him surveying the city in those wide angle shots. I'm sure we can guess he used his grappling hook, do we need to see him use it, no, can we assume he did, yes. So we can assume Bruce used his stealth skills and knowledge of the city of Gotham to strategically get in without anyone finding out.

[GuruAskew]

There's clearly a difference between wondering how Batman scaled a building and wondering how he infiltrated an isolated island in which every entrance is guarded by the military.

I think it's a valid complaint. Is it beyond anyone's imagination to concoct a scenario in which the resourceful Batman could do such a thing? No. Is it good storytelling to leave such an event out of the movie? Also, no.

It's one of those things that so many people complain about that you have to give weight to the belief that a lot of people hold.

Ultimately I think TDKR was an eye-opener for a lot of people who don't really pay attention to the mechanics of storytelling. Most people watch a movie and think a character dies because they got shot whereas in reality a character gets shot because the writer wants to kill the character, and in my own experience TDKR tipped past that point where even your casual moviegoer recognized that Nolan was only doing things to set up other things, especially improbable and flat-out stupid things that had to happen to support the film's big beats/setpieces.

Ultimately all storytellers deal with the same problems of communicating certain information to the audience and establishing the groundwork for later events but the good ones do it organically and the screenplay for TDKR is heavy-handed, mechanical and arguably incomplete.

[rickah88]

Uhm, yeah...I watched the movie and was entertained.

[Noriena]

Question: watching the Dark Knight Rises, I found dialogue to be completely indiscernible for, like, the second half of the movie. Is this inherent to the movie's sound design, or the discs' audio track? Though, it's always a possibility that it can be attributed to my less-than-stellar speaker set-up.

[vidjunkie]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Uhm, yeah...I watched the movie and was entertained.

You are not the only one, I was as well.

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Uhm, yeah...I watched the movie and was entertained.

You guys are failing to realize that action movies are no longer meant to be entertainment. They're meant to be nitpicked ad nauseum and debated to death.

[Cabby]

Originally Posted by Noriena

Question: watching the Dark Knight Rises, I found dialogue to be completely indiscernible for, like, the second half of the movie. Is this inherent to the movie's sound design, or the discs' audio track? Though, it's always a possibility that it can be attributed to my less-than-stellar speaker set-up.

That's funny that you say that because I actually watched this at my house (I have a brand new surround sound system) and it sounded amazing. The dialogue was great and I had no complaints.

A few days later I brought it over my girlfriend's house and watched it with her family and it sounded terrible (they don't have surround sound, just the HDTV with audio coming from the TV). The music was drowning out the dialogue, Bane's dialogue was very difficult to understand.... it was distractedly bad.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

There's clearly a difference between wondering how Batman scaled a building and wondering how he infiltrated an isolated island in which every entrance is guarded by the military ... I think it's a valid complaint. Is it beyond anyone's imagination to concoct a scenario in which the resourceful Batman could do such a thing? No. Is it good storytelling to leave such an event out of the movie? Also, no.
It's one of those things that so many people complain about that you have to give weight to the belief that a lot of people hold.

That's just absurd. There's 101 pages in this thread and I could be wrong, but I don't believe the issue of Bruce returning to Gotham even came up until the last page or so. And, if you, or anyone else, thinks that's a key point, you should watch more reality TV, you'd be much happier.

Good writing means knowing what to leave out as well as well as what to put in and what to explain. Who cares if he swam or jet-packed? It might be cool to see it, but the movie's already 165 bloated minutes long - everything can't be explained. Bruce & company eat, drink and heed nature's call, right? But did you ever see even one of them head into a restroom? Especially in a batsuit? Are they all constipated? Gee, that would've been interesting to see - but completely unnecessary!

[42041]

Originally Posted by Noriena

Question: watching the Dark Knight Rises, I found dialogue to be completely indiscernible for, like, the second half of the movie. Is this inherent to the movie's sound design, or the discs' audio track? Though, it's always a possibility that it can be attributed to my less-than-stellar speaker set-up.

I occasionally couldn't understand Bane but I don't remember having much of an issue otherwise...

[SHOCKWAVE6464]

The only issue that I've had with TDKR was

[Show spoiler]Bane's death scene.

It was rushed out and the studio was like

[Show spoiler]"Since we introduced Talia al Ghul, let's forget about Bane!"

[Cabby]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

That's just absurd. There's 101 pages in this thread and I could be wrong, but I don't believe the issue of Bruce returning to Gotham even came up until the last page or so. And, if you, or anyone else, thinks that's a key point, you should watch more reality TV, you'd be much happier.

Good writing means knowing what to leave out as well as well as what to put in and what to explain. Who cares if he swam or jet-packed? It might be cool to see it, but the movie's already 165 bloated minutes long - everything can't be explained. Bruce & company eat, drink and heed nature's call, right? But did you ever see even one of them head into a restroom? Especially in a batsuit? Are they all constipated? Gee, that would've been interesting to see - but completely unnecessary!

I agree. There is so much going on in this movie that if they had added exposition scenes to explain some of the "plot-holes" it would have been over-long and poorly paced. Maybe I'm weird but those things don't bother me. If they don't progress the story forward we don't really need them. They never showed Bruce traveling back and forth in Batman Begins without a passport, wallet, etc and nobody complains about that. It's because when Begins came out, it wasn't popular. Now that TDK trilogy is immensely popular it's the "cool thing" to rag on it.

[Extremis]

Originally Posted by SHOCKWAVE6464

The only issue that I've had with TDKR was

[Show spoiler]Bane's death scene.

It was rushed out and the studio was like

[Show spoiler]"Since we introduced Talia al Ghul, let's forget about Bane!"

Not. At. All.

[SpartanX]

Originally Posted by SHOCKWAVE6464

The only issue that I've had with TDKR was

[Show spoiler]Bane's death scene.

It was rushed out and the studio was like

[Show spoiler]"Since we introduced Talia al Ghul, let's forget about Bane!"

The only I had an issue with is Talia. The character was fine, but the twist was so stupid. Anyone who even followed news about the film knew she was Talia. It was practically the anti-twist. It's not a twist if you totally see it coming.

[Extremis]

Originally Posted by SpartanX

The only I had an issue with is Talia. The character was fine, but the twist was so stupid. Anyone who even followed news about the film knew she was Talia. It was practically the anti-twist. It's not a twist if you totally see it coming.

If you knew Cotillard was in a Batman/Nolan film, you would know that.

[SpartanX]

Originally Posted by ryan4butler

If you knew Cotillard was in a Batman/Nolan film, you would know that.

Yup. She was pretty much perfect for the part.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

That's just absurd. There's 101 pages in this thread and I could be wrong, but I don't believe the issue of Bruce returning to Gotham even came up until the last page or so. And, if you, or anyone else, thinks that's a key point, you should watch more reality TV, you'd be much happier.

Good writing means knowing what to leave out as well as well as what to put in and what to explain. Who cares if he swam or jet-packed? It might be cool to see it, but the movie's already 165 bloated minutes long - everything can't be explained. Bruce & company eat, drink and heed nature's call, right? But did you ever see even one of them head into a restroom? Especially in a batsuit? Are they all constipated? Gee, that would've been interesting to see - but completely unnecessary!

So true. Some people watch a film and constantly think "there's no way he could do that" or "there's no way that could happen". Um, people, he's a SUPER hero, not just a hero. He's capable of doing things that are completely impossible(and sometimes seem supernatural) for the NORMAL person. That's the whole point, isn't it? Watch a documentary about combat veterans if you want to see the human limits of TRUE heroism. It's a movie, there can only be a certain amount of attempts at realism. Beyond that, you simply just won't have a movie anymore.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by GuruAskew

There's clearly a difference between wondering how Batman scaled a building and wondering how he infiltrated an isolated island in which every entrance is guarded by the military.

I think it's a valid complaint. Is it beyond anyone's imagination to concoct a scenario in which the resourceful Batman could do such a thing? No. Is it good storytelling to leave such an event out of the movie? Also, no.

It's one of those things that so many people complain about that you have to give weight to the belief that a lot of people hold.

Ultimately I think TDKR was an eye-opener for a lot of people who don't really pay attention to the mechanics of storytelling. Most people watch a movie and think a character dies because they got shot whereas in reality a character gets shot because the writer wants to kill the character, and in my own experience TDKR tipped past that point where even your casual moviegoer recognized that Nolan was only doing things to set up other things, especially improbable and flat-out stupid things that had to happen to support the film's big beats/setpieces.

Ultimately all storytellers deal with the same problems of communicating certain information to the audience and establishing the groundwork for later events but the good ones do it organically and the screenplay for TDKR is heavy-handed, mechanical and arguably incomplete.

Point is, people are just being nit-picky with this film in many respects. In the example you listed above... was it really important for them to show us how Bruce got on the island? No, it isn't. Want to know why? Because Bruce Wayne is Batman, that's why, and I think it's well established that he's a clever dude who's normally good at infiltrating places. That's all we really need to know - Bruce is Batman, and made it happen. Knowing HOW he got there really does nothing to improve the plot or overall experience, does it? No.