3D Cable and Broadcast Television Discussion - Page 3 - Blu-ray Forum

tripletopper · 08-02-2019, 10:39 PM

Unfortuately, I live in an 'internet desert" where my maximum spewd is 1.6 Mb/s in, 400 k out, the cable company refuses to go down our street, and the DSL is so far away, that the maximum we get 1.6 Mb/s in 400 kb/s out.

I tried to get cell phone internet, but no matter which of the 4 companies you go through, they always AUTOMATICALLLY Drop you down to 2G (basically dial up) when you exceed your bandwidth, but they do allow unlimited 4g to cell phones (not guarasnteed unliimted 4G,but based on normal traffic flows) So until they have unlmiited universal; faat enough broadband for all household items, if the only way to get 3D is internet, I'm physically unable to participate.

Trust me, as a video game fan, who wants to twitch out games I play online, this is a very bad predicament I'm in.

A lot of the cellular companies say they'd like to give us unlimited home-based 4G for home appliances, but it's impossible to tell who's where to a degree of accuracy good enough to say, a) i'm at home, and b) i live in an "internet Red zone"

My suggestion was, every device has a GPS pinger that's veery accurate. Why not use that? Some cell comapnies say it's illegal, even if the customer pays them to do it, for cellular companies to constantly ping it for that SPECIFIC purpose.

So is it a corporate collusion, or is it a federal or state regulaition that prevents me from getting internet?

Read more about my woes, and some of the good I tried to de for the few people in my situation on

Also you can use "second broadcast subchannel as second eye".

I also heard doubling the resolution form 1080p to 4k cuts the frame rate in half.

I've seen 60 hz broadcasts (according to the info window) of shows that were actually filmed in 30hz. Does copying a frame twice take up significantly more bandwidth than making L:/R versions of that frame? Also more people PREFER a 30Hz look than a 60Hz look becaiuse a 30 Hz look looks more realistic., and 60 Hz looks too computer generated.

I also heard they can transmit in 120 Hz, so you could have a 60 Hz x 2 eye broadcast that is read as a 60 Hz x 1 eye broadcast on regular tvs.

I know analog is a constant signal using the same amount of bandwidth for any type of broadcast. But on digital, you can choiose what you want to emphasize by cutting back on other stuff.

For example, an audio only broadcast on TV airwaves takes less bandwidth than a mono B/W 30 Hz broadcast. Then adding things like Color*of varying bits, (Standard Blu ray is 8 for Y + 8 for Cb and 8 for Cr for 24 bits per pixel, HDR is 30 bits), Closed Captions (more than one track for foreign tracks) , multi-channel sound from stereo to Dolby 5.1, mulitchannel sound for foreign languages and audio for the blind, resolutions from 240p and 480i to 2160 p, frame rates from 30 Hz to 120 Hz, and finally 1 eye or 2, are up for grqbs and for the director to prioritize. The beautiful thing about that system is that it['s flexible tenough to accommodate each kind of show.

So it would be impossible to have a 120 Hz x 2 eye show, unless you're willing to either film in black and white, or maybe fewer than 24 bit color) or Stereo or mono instead of Dolby 5.1, or not accommodate other languages.

Univision does not put an English translation as either an audio track or as as closed caption track on their content. It's not a civil right that English content must accommodate the Spanish-only audience and not have it reciprocated. Frankly, the only thing I care about is Spanish soap operas, and the language of snuggling with speech in any language doesn't need a translation. <3 Half the other content is Spanish-language versions of English content. I recognize "Let's Make a Deal" by the look.

I assume there is a formula you can have to determine the bandwidth per second of content and how much bandwidth a TV station has per second. And I assume you can bend it many different ways. Can it also have a dynamic broadcast/cablecast./satcast prioriites list unique to each unit of content, so if the full production is too big to fit on a channel, the director thinks high resolution, for example, is the most important thing, and 3D is the least important thing, then the second eye goes on the internet,. But if 3D was important and a 30Hz x 2 eye presentation would be the least nioticed flaw but would be enhanced by 60 Hz x 2 eye, then halving the hertz rate is the next thing to drop down, etc..., biut could be picked up buy the internet

I'd hate to see 3D be the only feature relegqated to tyhe web. If a show director thinks 3D is more imprtant, and can find something to scarifice on that will least hurt the show, like framerate for a lot of people, then rthere should be a non-network way to accommodate 3D.

And you do agree that the rush to the 3D Super Bowl by making a TV broadcast unwatchable in 2D (for human purposes) byu using side-by-side half is the stupidest thing 3D fans could save done. As soon as the news reported that the 3D Super bowl would be 2D incompatible, and the subsequent 3D cancellation, that's when 3D TV sales nosedived.

tripletopper · 01-07-2021, 10:17 PM

Hello it's been a long time since my 3D question has been addressed. What do you do in an internet desert if you like 3D and you have broadcast TV?

what do you think about dynamic TV broadcasts where someone determines what's the more important feature to get on the primary broadcast and then all the supplemental stuff comes by the internet so it's not automatically 3D goes to the internet which I have very little of. If it's a colorized 3d movie why not move the chroma key to the internet?

if 3D is more important than high res then why not limit the resolution and go with 60 hertz 30 bits and two eyes?

By the way I got an engineer of my local ABC station liking my idea of 2D compatible 3D. He didn't know there was a 2d compatible 3d standard. Thank you ATSC3 for having it

But do not relegate 3D to network only. if Congress could have a rural telephone act and a rural rural electricity act in the 30s why can't they have an adequate Broadband Act. especially the way they're preventing cellulars from serving the rural areas without extreme caveats not making it worth their while. the ways I showed you could indicate that we're stationary and we're in Internet hell holes is by pinging our GPS but some companies say it's illegal to Ping our GPS even at all request.

Lee A Stewart · 01-08-2021, 12:33 AM

US relief package provides $7 billion for broadband

Quote:

After months of deliberation, congressional leaders reached a $900 billion coronavirus relief deal on Sunday, including billions in funding for broadband internet access.

Congress’ latest relief measure provides $7 billion in funding for broadband connectivity and infrastructure. That figure includes $3.2 billion for a $50-per-month emergency broadband benefit for people who are laid off or furloughed during the pandemic, according to a press release from Sen. Ron Wyden’s (D-OR) office on Sunday.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/21/...and-huawei-zte

Lee A Stewart · 01-08-2021, 12:34 AM

Starlink

https://www.starlink.com/

tripletopper · 01-08-2021, 04:51 PM

Yes I heard of starlink. I applied as a possible customer they haven't sent me anything.

And it's not a question of being able to afford the internet is it a question of access.

When visible Cellular internet sounds like a great home internet option, (I considering where I am it is) then you know internet is not everywhere it could be.

With visible Wireless I get five megs in five big out hotspot unlimited quantity for 40 bucks in addition to all the other cellular stuff that goes along with it. If I'm on Social Security and I pay for this you know it's worth it. My best land base speed is 1.6 m in 400k out through Frontier. My dealings with the executive with relations to FCC complaints is almost like a James Bond relationship. A couple times I heard her say "And there's nothing you can do about it.". if she were trying to be sympathetic she would say "there's nothing Frontier can do about it."

By the way there's one last issue associated with satellite ping. With cellular I know I could beat 150 milliseconds of paying because it is only slightly elevated from the Earth's surface.

Traditional satellites internet is 30,000 km above the surface of the Earth. That's why 400 milliseconds of delay is added to send one bit. it's a great one-way communication System but a two-way it sucks.

08-02-2019, 10:39 PM	#41
tripletopper Active Member Member since:Mar 2017 Blu-ray reviews:1	Unfortuately, I live in an 'internet desert" where my maximum spewd is 1.6 Mb/s in, 400 k out, the cable company refuses to go down our street, and the DSL is so far away, that the maximum we get 1.6 Mb/s in 400 kb/s out. I tried to get cell phone internet, but no matter which of the 4 companies you go through, they always AUTOMATICALLLY Drop you down to 2G (basically dial up) when you exceed your bandwidth, but they do allow unlimited 4g to cell phones (not guarasnteed unliimted 4G,but based on normal traffic flows) So until they have unlmiited universal; faat enough broadband for all household items, if the only way to get 3D is internet, I'm physically unable to participate. Trust me, as a video game fan, who wants to twitch out games I play online, this is a very bad predicament I'm in. A lot of the cellular companies say they'd like to give us unlimited home-based 4G for home appliances, but it's impossible to tell who's where to a degree of accuracy good enough to say, a) i'm at home, and b) i live in an "internet Red zone" My suggestion was, every device has a GPS pinger that's veery accurate. Why not use that? Some cell comapnies say it's illegal, even if the customer pays them to do it, for cellular companies to constantly ping it for that SPECIFIC purpose. So is it a corporate collusion, or is it a federal or state regulaition that prevents me from getting internet? Read more about my woes, and some of the good I tried to de for the few people in my situation on Also you can use "second broadcast subchannel as second eye". I also heard doubling the resolution form 1080p to 4k cuts the frame rate in half. I've seen 60 hz broadcasts (according to the info window) of shows that were actually filmed in 30hz. Does copying a frame twice take up significantly more bandwidth than making L:/R versions of that frame? Also more people PREFER a 30Hz look than a 60Hz look becaiuse a 30 Hz look looks more realistic., and 60 Hz looks too computer generated. I also heard they can transmit in 120 Hz, so you could have a 60 Hz x 2 eye broadcast that is read as a 60 Hz x 1 eye broadcast on regular tvs. I know analog is a constant signal using the same amount of bandwidth for any type of broadcast. But on digital, you can choiose what you want to emphasize by cutting back on other stuff. For example, an audio only broadcast on TV airwaves takes less bandwidth than a mono B/W 30 Hz broadcast. Then adding things like Color*of varying bits, (Standard Blu ray is 8 for Y + 8 for Cb and 8 for Cr for 24 bits per pixel, HDR is 30 bits), Closed Captions (more than one track for foreign tracks) , multi-channel sound from stereo to Dolby 5.1, mulitchannel sound for foreign languages and audio for the blind, resolutions from 240p and 480i to 2160 p, frame rates from 30 Hz to 120 Hz, and finally 1 eye or 2, are up for grqbs and for the director to prioritize. The beautiful thing about that system is that it['s flexible tenough to accommodate each kind of show. So it would be impossible to have a 120 Hz x 2 eye show, unless you're willing to either film in black and white, or maybe fewer than 24 bit color) or Stereo or mono instead of Dolby 5.1, or not accommodate other languages. Univision does not put an English translation as either an audio track or as as closed caption track on their content. It's not a civil right that English content must accommodate the Spanish-only audience and not have it reciprocated. Frankly, the only thing I care about is Spanish soap operas, and the language of snuggling with speech in any language doesn't need a translation. <3 Half the other content is Spanish-language versions of English content. I recognize "Let's Make a Deal" by the look. I assume there is a formula you can have to determine the bandwidth per second of content and how much bandwidth a TV station has per second. And I assume you can bend it many different ways. Can it also have a dynamic broadcast/cablecast./satcast prioriites list unique to each unit of content, so if the full production is too big to fit on a channel, the director thinks high resolution, for example, is the most important thing, and 3D is the least important thing, then the second eye goes on the internet,. But if 3D was important and a 30Hz x 2 eye presentation would be the least nioticed flaw but would be enhanced by 60 Hz x 2 eye, then halving the hertz rate is the next thing to drop down, etc..., biut could be picked up buy the internet I'd hate to see 3D be the only feature relegqated to tyhe web. If a show director thinks 3D is more imprtant, and can find something to scarifice on that will least hurt the show, like framerate for a lot of people, then rthere should be a non-network way to accommodate 3D. And you do agree that the rush to the 3D Super Bowl by making a TV broadcast unwatchable in 2D (for human purposes) byu using side-by-side half is the stupidest thing 3D fans could save done. As soon as the news reported that the 3D Super bowl would be 2D incompatible, and the subsequent 3D cancellation, that's when 3D TV sales nosedived.

01-07-2021, 10:17 PM	#42
tripletopper Active Member Member since:Mar 2017 Blu-ray reviews:1	Hello it's been a long time since my 3D question has been addressed. What do you do in an internet desert if you like 3D and you have broadcast TV? what do you think about dynamic TV broadcasts where someone determines what's the more important feature to get on the primary broadcast and then all the supplemental stuff comes by the internet so it's not automatically 3D goes to the internet which I have very little of. If it's a colorized 3d movie why not move the chroma key to the internet? if 3D is more important than high res then why not limit the resolution and go with 60 hertz 30 bits and two eyes? By the way I got an engineer of my local ABC station liking my idea of 2D compatible 3D. He didn't know there was a 2d compatible 3d standard. Thank you ATSC3 for having it But do not relegate 3D to network only. if Congress could have a rural telephone act and a rural rural electricity act in the 30s why can't they have an adequate Broadband Act. especially the way they're preventing cellulars from serving the rural areas without extreme caveats not making it worth their while. the ways I showed you could indicate that we're stationary and we're in Internet hell holes is by pinging our GPS but some companies say it's illegal to Ping our GPS even at all request.

01-08-2021, 12:34 AM	#44
Lee A Stewart Blu-ray Baron Member since:Jan 2019 Location:Albuquerque, NM	Starlink https://www.starlink.com/

01-08-2021, 04:51 PM	#45
tripletopper Active Member Member since:Mar 2017 Blu-ray reviews:1	Yes I heard of starlink. I applied as a possible customer they haven't sent me anything. And it's not a question of being able to afford the internet is it a question of access. When visible Cellular internet sounds like a great home internet option, (I considering where I am it is) then you know internet is not everywhere it could be. With visible Wireless I get five megs in five big out hotspot unlimited quantity for 40 bucks in addition to all the other cellular stuff that goes along with it. If I'm on Social Security and I pay for this you know it's worth it. My best land base speed is 1.6 m in 400k out through Frontier. My dealings with the executive with relations to FCC complaints is almost like a James Bond relationship. A couple times I heard her say "And there's nothing you can do about it.". if she were trying to be sympathetic she would say "there's nothing Frontier can do about it." By the way there's one last issue associated with satellite ping. With cellular I know I could beat 150 milliseconds of paying because it is only slightly elevated from the Earth's surface. Traditional satellites internet is 30,000 km above the surface of the Earth. That's why 400 milliseconds of delay is added to send one bit. it's a great one-way communication System but a two-way it sucks.

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