French Forced Subtitles Master List

[ArieS]

Originally Posted by deltasun

Here's the rest of what I've jotted down:

All the Boys Love Mandy Lane (Wild Side Video)
Apocalypse Now (Pathé)
Awake (Wild Side Video)
Bandidas (EuropaCorp)
Be King, Rewind (Pathé)
Broken Embraces (Pathé)
Broken Flowers (BAC Video)
Brothers (Wild Side Video)
Burn After Reading (Studio Canal)
Constant Gardener, The (Studio Canal)
Cove, The (Pathé)
Departed, The (TF1)
Enter the Void (Wild Side Video)
I Spit on Your Grave (original & remake) (TF1)
Jackie Brown (TF1)
Kaboom (Wild Side Video)
King of the Hill (Wild Side Video)
Largo Winch (Wild Side Video)
Lost in Translation (Pathé)
My Blueberry Nights (Studio Canal)
Oldboy (Wild Side Video)
Orphanage, The (Wild Side Video)
Scoop (TF1)
Sin City (Wild Side Video)
Sofia Coppola Boxset (all 4 movies) (Pathé)
Suspiria (Wild Side Video)
Taken (EuropaCorp)
Talented Mr. Ripley, The (BAC Video)
Tenebre (Wild Side Video)
Terminator 2 (Studio Canal)
Traffic (Studio Canal)
Two Lovers (Wild Side Video)
We Own the Night (Wild Side Video)

Note that T2 only has forced subs on the Theatrical version. The Director's cut does not.

[toddly6666]

This list is starting to get depressing. Is it only France that practices this forced subbed silliness?

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

This list is starting to get depressing. Is it only France that practices this forced subbed silliness?

Yes, as the list shows forced subtitling is common practice in France. It is extremely rare in other localities. The US release of Moon in the Gutter (French with burnt-in English subtitles) is the only release I know where this is the case outside of France. Titles like e.g. Broken Flowers have been released in Germany without forced subtitles. This is really not just a licensing issue.

[Kynch]

Slumdog Millionaire has forced subs too when English is chosen.

[Presence]

Added.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Yes, as the list shows forced subtitling is common practice in France. It is extremely rare in other localities. The US release of Moon in the Gutter (French with burnt-in English subtitles) is the only release I know where this is the case outside of France. Titles like e.g. Broken Flowers have been released in Germany without forced subtitles. This is really not just a licensing issue.

This is not true.

UK BDs with forced English subtitles reviewed in the last six months:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Cell-.../27853/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Outra.../27932/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Elite.../24085/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-S.../30262/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Point.../26191/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-E.../24440/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-E.../24440/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-F.../25630/#Review

There are also dozens upon dozens of US releases with forced English subtitles, but American reviewers rarely note this (Note that The Moon in the Gutter was a US title reviewed by pro-bassoonist, who is also our resident reviewer for non-US titles and reviewed all the UK BDs linked above). Here are some more US discs noted by Pro-B to have imposed English subs:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Uncle.../22763/#Review

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Henri.../20761/#Review

While the reasons for forcing subtitle tracks are not always contractual, it is important to remember that it is not just France who engages in this practice frequently, but English-speaking countries, too.

[Liersi]

Very true, although the practice does seem to be more widely spread in France when one looks at the kind of films released with forced subtitles. The Skin I Live In, like Broken Embraces, seems to be a co-release with France via Fox/Pathe. That's how the UK releases have forced subtitles I assume. France has quite a few big publishers who do it very consistently even on high profile releases that don't have forced subtitles anywhere else (Drive is a recent example, Woody Allen releases through Warner who never do this anywhere else in the world afaik).

One thing that bears repetition though is that in France they're usually forced electronically. They can be defeated by software or modified players. The kind of forced subtitles I've encountered from the UK have all been baked into the video. Those are much worse as they're there for good. Broken Embraces, The Skin I Live In, some Icon titles (14 Blades comes to mind).

Thanks for this thread, because whatever the reasons may be, this needs more attention so it gets mentioned in reviews. It's incredible how difficult it is to find reliable information on this short of posting here and asking the members. Cheers!

EDIT: 14 Blades was released by ICON, not Cineasia as originally stated. My bad!

EDIT2: Enough rambling, here's my round-up from France. Releases noted as false positives don't give an option to turn subtitles off in the menus, but let you cycle them off via the subtitle button on the remote once the film starts. If someone goes by the menu and doesn't check manually these can get mistakenly listed as forced.

False Positives (can be disabled):

Paris, Texas (Arte)
13th Warrior (Metropolitan)
Pi (BAC)
Jodhaa Akbar (Bodega)
Dead Ringers (ITV)
The Transporter (Fox)

Positives (forced):

The Leopard (Pathe)
You'll Meet a Tall Dark Stranger (Warner)
Midnight in Paris (TF1)
Dream Home (Wild Side)
[Rec] (Wild Side)
Vengeance (TF1)
The Loved Ones (ARP/Universal)
The Murderer a.k.a. The Yellow Sea (Wild Side)
The 36th Chamber of Shaolin Trilogy (Wild Side)

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by Liersi

False Positives (can be disabled):

Paris, Texas (Arte)
13th Warrior (Metropolitan)
Pi (BAC)
Jodhaa Akbar (Bodega)
Dead Ringers (ITV)
The Transporter (Fox)

Thank you for the information regarding Dead Ringers. I will order this one now together with China Girl. I take the risk on China Girl since it is Metropolitan and they are normally trustworthy.

Now for the first time I will get burnt with a UK release (The Skin I Live in). It already dispatched from amazon.co.uk but I will send it back. I go for the US release. I have the US release of Broken Embraces and it has no forced subs.

[knifethrower]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Thank you for the information regarding Dead Ringers. I will order this one now together with China Girl.

Dead Ringers is 1080i50 if that sort of thing bothers you.

[G:Box]

You can add these to the list

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Marve...Blu-ray/14552/

[Presence]

Updated.

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by knifethrower

Dead Ringers is 1080i50 if that sort of thing bothers you.

Thank you very much! Yes it does. I can play 1080i/50 but this is not the way a film should be presented that was not originally shot with video cameras. Hopefully Criterion will do a proper release.

[Bruce Morrison]

Billy Wilder's "Avanti!" has been announced by a distributor called Filmedia for BD release on May 3rd. There are no Filmedia titles in the forced subs master list, but I don't know whether they have actually released many BDs previously.

Can anyone confirm whether Filmedia have a good track record regarding the forced subs issue - or are they basically an unknown quantity?

[Tobi_R]

Originally Posted by Kynch

Slumdog Millionaire has forced subs too when English is chosen.

that is weird...
I have the french BD and it does NOT have forced subs.. the BD menu even has an on/off option for the french subs

as for other forced subs titels:
Into the Wild
and afaik every TF1 Steelbook release (except Valkyrie)

[Konrad]

In both films subtitles are forced when Chinese original version is selected.

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by Tobi_R

that is weird...
I have the french BD and it does NOT have forced subs.. the BD menu even has an on/off option for the french subs

The two films I mentioned above also have the on/off option. However, if you select the off option a message will appear "selection blocked by disc". This same message BTW will also appear if you want to watch the French dubbed version with the French subtitles on.

[Tobi_R]

Originally Posted by Konrad

The two films I mentioned above also have the on/off option. However, if you select the off option a message will appear "selection blocked by disc". This same message BTW will also appear if you want to watch the French dubbed version with the French subtitles on.

well it´s a bit different for Slumdog Millionaire...
you can actually SWITCH OFF the french subs using your remote or use the BD menu and select subs off.. BOTH OPTIONS ARE WORKING
the french BD I´ve got does NOT have forced french subs

[Konrad]

Okay, I didn't doubt your word. Just wanted to mention how it is with the Chinese films. I wasn't so mad with these two editions having forced subs as I need them anyway. The option to switch them off would have been nice though, as I think there are many people in France who understand Chinese/Mandarin.

[Tobi_R]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Okay, I didn't doubt your word. Just wanted to mention how it is with the Chinese films. I wasn't so mad with these two editions having forced subs as I need them anyway. The option to switch them off would have been nice though, as I think there are many people in France who understand Chinese/Mandarin.

no problem..
just wanted to let people know it´s safe to get the disc.. many might be interested to get the french DigiBook

[MrBrown]

You may add Zombie (Dawn of the Dead 1978 - Argento Cut) distributed by SPHE to the list. My PS3 even can't shut it of via remote.