Frances Ha

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

There is far more than self-obsessed neurosis going on in the better Woody Allen films.

I respectfully disagree, mate. The only Allen film I thought was halfway clever and insightful was Melinda Melinda. Granted, I haven't seen all of his films, just about 3 or 4, but they do very little for me. Frances Ha seems more reminiscent of Traffaut, imo.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

I respectfully disagree, mate. The only Allen film I thought was halfway clever and insightful was Melinda Melinda. Granted, I haven't seen all of his films, just about 3 or 4, but they do very little for me. Frances Ha seems more reminiscent of Traffaut, imo.

There's certainly a great air of Truffaut hanging over the film, esp. Jules et Jim, Stolen Kisses et al. I also saw a lot of Rohmer in there (esp. his Moral Tales), and the playfulness of Rivette too.

Allen wise, it was Hannah And Her Sisters that I saw most in Frances Ha, in the way that Allen's own character in that film, as with Frances in this, acts as a deconstruction of sorts of the stereotypical "Woe-is-me", neurotic cliche that passers by usually attach to both Allen's film and the strain of privileged-losers that Baumbach's films fit in to. Both are very knowing in this respect, and are openly tackling these criticisms in Frances Ha and Hannah And Her Sisters.

I'm not a great fan of Allen myself, although as I've hit my 30's I've begun to get more out of them.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

There's certainly a great air of Truffaut hanging over the film, esp. Jules et Jim, Stolen Kisses et al. I also saw a lot of Rohmer in there (esp. his Moral Tales), and the playfulness of Rivette too.

Allen wise, it was Hannah And Her Sisters that I saw most in Frances Ha, in the way that Allen's own character in that film, as with Frances in this, acts as a deconstruction of sorts of the stereotypical "Woe-is-me", neurotic cliche that passers by usually attach to both Allen's film and the strain of privileged-losers that Baumbach's films fit in to. Both are very knowing in this respect, and are openly tackling these criticisms in Frances Ha and Hannah And Her Sisters.

I'm not a great fan of Allen myself, although as I've hit my 30's I've begun to get more out of them.

This is interesting. It's almost making me want to reassess some of Allen's films.

Seen bits and bobs of Hannah And Her Sisters, but I think you're right, theres definitely some parallels between that and Frances Ha. I think this is the only Baumbach film I have ever seen, but I think he might have worked with Wes Anderson a few times, too, another guy i'm not big on.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

I respectfully disagree, mate. The only Allen film I thought was halfway clever and insightful was Melinda Melinda. Granted, I haven't seen all of his films, just about 3 or 4, but they do very little for me. Frances Ha seems more reminiscent of Traffaut, imo.

If you've seen 3 or 4 of Woody Allen's films then you are in no position to evaluate his work, considering he has made 50 films by now and he made his best films between the early 70s and the late 90s.

There is a lot of french New Wave and quite a bit of Allen in Frances Ha, but not late mediocre Allen (as in Melinda Melinda), but early to mid-period insightful Allen.

[SimBelm]

I feel the film is closest to Rohmer, not necessarily his Moral Tales, but films like A Tale of Winter and The Green Ray.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

If you've seen 3 or 4 of Woody Allen's films then you are in no position to evaluate his work, considering he has made 50 films by now and he made his best films between the early 70s and the late 90s.

There is a lot of french New Wave and quite a bit of Allen in Frances Ha, but not late mediocre Allen (as in Melinda Melinda), but early to mid-period insightful Allen.

I had to study him in-depth in a module called 'Comedy & Gender' once, and there were plenty of excerpts of his filmography that I was forced to see, so I certainly know enough to comment upon his authorship and the likes.

French New Wave/Traffaut sounds like the most appropriate comparison for Frances Ha, and I think I will leave it at that.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

This is interesting. It's almost making me want to reassess some of Allen's films.

Seen bits and bobs of Hannah And Her Sisters, but I think you're right, theres definitely some parallels between that and Frances Ha. I think this is the only Baumbach film I have ever seen, but I think he might have worked with Wes Anderson a few times, too, another guy i'm not big on.

I'd sit down with Hannah And Her Sisters over the Xmas period and really take it all in. That was the film which brought me around to him, following years of being apathetic towards much of his work.

Re- Baumbach, I'm a big fan in general, and think he's been on a real roll for a few years now. I love everything since The Squid And The Whale, and while Frances Ha is my favourite of his, 2010's Greenberg is a film which means a lot to me too (and makes for a nice companion piece to Frances Ha). You're right about Baumbach having worked with Wes Anderson too. The pair wrote The Life Aquatic together, and adapted The Fantastic Mr. Fox.

[Buzz201]

For those of us, who didn't take film studies and aren't up on French new wave cinema, it sounds a bit like HBO's Girls. Would that be a fair comparison?

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by SimBelm

I feel the film is closest to Rohmer, not necessarily his Moral Tales, but films like A Tale of Winter and The Green Ray.

It's crazy just how explicit an influence Rohmer has become of late. Sight & Sound published an article earlier this year showing how he's essentially one of the most prevalent influences over the current wave of US 'indie' cinema, with his fingerprints all over everything from Before Midnight to Dan Sallitt's The Unspeakable Act.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

For those of us, who didn't take film studies and aren't up on French new wave cinema, it sounds a bit like HBO's Girls. Would that be a fair comparison?

Kind of. The two share an actor (Adam Driver) and a similar attitude towards their subjects (privileged, 20-somethings). The distinction between the two comes in the presentation and the aesthetics.

[SimBelm]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

It's crazy just how explicit an influence Rohmer has become of late. Sight & Sound published an article earlier this year showing how he's essentially one of the most prevalent influences over the current wave of US 'indie' cinema, with his fingerprints all over everything from Before Midnight to Dan Sallitt's The Unspeakable Act.

Yeah it's a beautiful thing to see his spirit alive in so many films. Especially as a lot of the time it doesn't even seem to be a direct inspiration or influence either, I remember reading that Hong Sang-soo had seen only a few of his films and wasn't really influenced by them at all. Yet there are similar charms that permeate both their films. I've read Joanna Hogg has a similar style as well so I'm really looking forward to seeing Exhibition next year.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by SimBelm

I've read Joanna Hogg has a similar style as well so I'm really looking forward to seeing Exhibition next year.

Have you seen her other films? Would definitely recommend them, especially the majestic Archipelago. And yes, the spirit of Rohmer very much informs her films.

[SimBelm]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

Have you seen her other films? Would definitely recommend them, especially the majestic Archipelago. And yes, the spirit of Rohmer very much informs her films.

Not yet. I recorded Archipelago on BBC2 a few weeks back, but it somehow deleted itself off of my planner. I hope to catch up with it as soon as I can. Glad to hear more praise for her films.

[Carletty]

Originally Posted by SimBelm

I feel the film is closest to Rohmer, not necessarily his Moral Tales, but films like A Tale of Winter and The Green Ray.

Don't forget "The Sign Of Leo" when Pierre is wandering down the Seine and through Paris.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

Since when does the dictionary define the term "coherent" as "snarky hatchet job I happen to agree with"?

The same time a guy who didn't like a film stopped wasted his time by writing online about it.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

I'd sit down with Hannah And Her Sisters over the Xmas period and really take it all in. That was the film which brought me around to him, following years of being apathetic towards much of his work.

Re- Baumbach, I'm a big fan in general, and think he's been on a real roll for a few years now. I love everything since The Squid And The Whale, and while Frances Ha is my favourite of his, 2010's Greenberg is a film which means a lot to me too (and makes for a nice companion piece to Frances Ha). You're right about Baumbach having worked with Wes Anderson too. The pair wrote The Life Aquatic together, and adapted The Fantastic Mr. Fox.

I'll give Hannah And Her Sisters a proper go. Greenberg got good reviews and my girlfriend said she really liked it so I may give that a go too. She says not to be fooled by the casting of Ben Stiller, and that it's got good dramatic moments. I hope she's right.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by theprestige85

I had to study him in-depth in a module called 'Comedy & Gender' once, and there were plenty of excerpts of his filmography that I was forced to see, so I certainly know enough to comment upon his authorship and the likes.

French New Wave/Traffaut sounds like the most appropriate comparison for Frances Ha, and I think I will leave it at that.

You obviously subscribe to the Readers Digest approach to film history.

[theprestige85]

Well I will be having another watch of Hannah And Her Sisters which I will compare to Frances Ha. I'm not saying Allen is terrible or anything, he's just not my thing, really.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

For those of us, who didn't take film studies and aren't up on French new wave cinema, it sounds a bit like HBO's Girls. Would that be a fair comparison?

if it IS like 'Girls' count me out.

Comparing Baumbach's writing/directing to Allen, Traffaut and Rohmer is an insult. Nothing in this movie struck me as memorable, and it didn't ever make me want to watch (or endure) another film with Greta Gerwig as the lead.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

if it IS like 'Girls' count me out.

Comparing Baumbach's writing/directing to Allen, Traffaut and Rohmer is an insult. Nothing in this movie struck me as memorable, and it didn't ever make me want to watch (or endure) another film with Greta Gerwig as the lead.

What was it about Greta Gerwig's performance you did not like? She also co-wrote the film.