UK Independents: Too many delays!

[Judex]

Originally Posted by FastAndFluid

A thread so "stupid" you just HAD to add your own unique brand of "stupidity" to it! I've got another suggestion: Close this stupid comment. Have you ever heard of "professionalism"? Small wonder people are rushing to LoveFilm, NetFlix etc when those companies just say "It's here now" instead of endlessly fabricating release dates they have no intention of reaching.

Yeah, because I'm sure these studio love to miss their planned releases dates. And have it possibly impact the rest of their year...

Let's face it, delays happen it doesn't matter how much you plan a release or how "professional" you are.

Originally Posted by FastAndFluid

Fyi, You get "support" by respecting your customers.

Surely delaying a release so it can be the best possible release is giving the utmost respect for their customers?

For the most part these companies are fairly open as to why there are delays, in particular Arrow & Eureka!.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by tenia

I think you might be missing the point.

People are aware as to why some releases are delayed for good reasons (Boro, Eyes without a face, Rabid Dogs, etc).
They are also very happy to get the movies output by MoC, Arrow, BFI, Second Sight or TWF.

However, compared to other independants, it has grown as an unusual habit to get their releases delayed very often. 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month.
And unfortunately, there are still times when nobody knows why.
We're stuck for the Herzog box, for instance.

So there is something that US or French independants do (or don't do) that allow them to have definitive release dated, right the first time.

When you have a considerable amount of money put aside month per month, as if you were handling a professional budget, these delays can be tricky.
When you're eagerly waiting some releases and they're pushed back once, twice, 3 times, up by 2 months, it gets tiring.

Everyone is happy for the extra care given to these releases. But other independants are also giving this care, but they don't have delays.

Hence the questionings.
Hence the topic.

Yes, tenia has hit the nail on the head here. In real life discretionary funds cannot always be held in perpetuity: Life events, other opportunities, and even other releases come along, that may displace buying a certain Blu-ray at any given time. I might have $300 to spend on Blu-rays this month, but in three months, I might have a car repair bill, and perhaps I have to use this money for that. Or perhaps I find a new vacation spot to visit, but I need some spending money. Should I hold those funds for a Blu-ray release that has been delayed, or should I use then for something I enjoy now?

When releases are delayed often, they end up becoming less important. Customers become complacent, and if multiple delays occur, eventually, people stop anticipating the release entirely. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes, even if that's months or years, but to get near the end of the wait and then suddenly find out you have to wait longer, and sometimes, longer still, makes it difficult to maintain enthusiasm. I don't want to see that start happening in the UK as a given. UK citizens are already forced to buy dozens of titles on DVD, or for those few that know of them, Blu-rays released abroad, even of their own television programs. If this release date issue gets bigger, do you think that companies like Arrow, BFI and MoC will gain customers, or lose them?

As much as people apparently don't care for this thread, already Ozu Teapot has posted something telling:

Originally Posted by Ozu Teapot

The delays to releases from various independents seem to have become so common that I feel kind of used to them. I almost expect them! As others have said I've usually pre-ordered and put the money aside so it's not an issue.

My "money problems" occur when something out of the blue happens like the recent Arrow sale and I'm suddenly needing funds to take advantage of the bargains!

And sales are another great point that I wasn't even thinking of.

Again, no one is bashing any UK label or release here. I appreciate every UK release, but that appreciation has nothing to do with the fact that recently, sticking to release dates has become a problem.

Criticizing an apparent problem with releasing product has no bearing on the merit or quality of that product. No one is saying that these releases are poor, or should be rushed out to meet a deadline.

The issue is probably something along the lines of setting release dates that are more realistic, and nothing more.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by FastAndFluid

A thread so "stupid" you just HAD to add your own unique brand of "stupidity" to it! I've got another suggestion: Close this stupid comment. Have you ever heard of "professionalism"? Small wonder people are rushing to LoveFilm, NetFlix etc when those companies just say "It's here now" instead of endlessly fabricating release dates they have no intention of reaching.

Fyi, You get "support" by respecting your customers. Continually feeding them misinformation is NOT respecting your customers.

Bullshit, why promote a date you have no intention of meeting, wasting valuable time and money?

And "professionalism" for a company selling themselves on premium product is delaying the release to make sure it's absolutely perfect and making sure your customers know why.

"Continually feeding them misinformation" implies they're intentionally lying to their customers, why on earth would any business do that?

My father used to be a project manager for a large financial firm, he tells me that in any large project there are three variables: quality, money and speed, and that you can only fix two of them. So if you want a good quality product for a low cost, it's going to take a lot of time, and because you aren't paying that much money you'll probably get screwed around a bit.

I would also point out that these small indies probably don't have that much warehouse space, so it's probably cheaper for them in the long run to delay the release, that set a release date months after the item is finished and store them until that date.

[FastAndFluid]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Bullshit, why promote a date you have no intention of meeting, wasting valuable time and money?

And "professionalism" for a company selling themselves on premium product is delaying the release to make sure it's absolutely perfect and making sure your customers know why.

"Continually feeding them misinformation" implies they're intentionally lying to their customers, why on earth would any business do that?

My father used to be a project manager for a large financial firm, he tells me that in any large project there are three variables: quality, money and speed, and that you can only fix two of them. So if you want a good quality product for a low cost, it's going to take a lot of time, and because you aren't paying that much money you'll probably get screwed around a bit.

I would also point out that these small indies probably don't have that much warehouse space, so it's probably cheaper for them in the long run to delay the release, that set a release date months after the item is finished and store them until that date.

The solution is VERY simple.Don't publish release dates until you know you can meet them. I'd accept a delay on one project or two but every single one? Give me a break. And isn't it funny how it's the same few companies every time whilst the vast majority seem to have no problems releasing the titles on the dates they've announced.

I repeat it's unprofessional to broadcast as fact dates that you know you have no hope of meeting. And I say "No hope" on purpose - look at the release dates for Network this year. Have they met a single one??!?

[bigdavehopes]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Yes, tenia has hit the nail on the head here. In real life discretionary funds cannot always be held in perpetuity: Life events, other opportunities, and even other releases come along, that may displace buying a certain Blu-ray at any given time. I might have $300 to spend on Blu-rays this month, but in three months, I might have a car repair bill, and perhaps I have to use this money for that. Or perhaps I find a new vacation spot to visit, but I need some spending money. Should I hold those funds for a Blu-ray release that has been delayed, or should I use then for something I enjoy now?

Not at all. This is complete rubish. Unforeseen expenses would cut into any of your leisure money. It doesn't matter if it was for a bluray thats been delayed, if you need the money for an expense then you need if for an expense, it could also come out of your budget for pre-orders which haven't been delayed.

So you cannot say "i might have this expense so won't have the money for the bluray that's been delayed". If you budget right then you should still be able to afford the delayed, that is unless you have a compulsive disorder which means you have to spend the money just because you have it.

It is really not that hard to budget, if a title gets delayed then those funds can be pushed to the month its delayed to. Not a hard thing to do.


Back to the topic of delays...
A business would never want to delay a title unless it has to. They will always do what's best for business and as such, supporters of the smaller businesses should realize this. Delays happen, but remember without them you may not ever get the title

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by FastAndFluid

The solution is VERY simple.Don't publish release dates until you know you can meet them. I'd accept a delay on one project or two but every single one? Give me a break. And isn't it funny how it's the same few companies every time whilst the vast majority seem to have no problems releasing the titles on the dates they've announced.

I repeat it's unprofessional to broadcast as fact dates that you know you have no hope of meeting. And I say "No hope" on purpose - look at the release dates for Network this year. Have they met a single one??!?

The Arrow Dr. Phibes set was delayed one week before release, due to replication issues, I have no doubt Arrow actually thought they could make the date. Should they not issue a date until the discs are actually finished then? Watch the price of releases skyrocket as they have to rent larger warehouses to store them all then...

If you have no hope of meeting it, it would be unprofessional. But in the vast majority of cases the distributor does believe they can meet the date (otherwise why would they waste money and time promoting it?), so it's wrong of you to try and tar them all with the same brush.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by bigdavehopes

Not at all. This is complete rubish. Unforeseen expenses would cut into any of your leisure money. It doesn't matter if it was for a bluray thats been delayed, if you need the money for an expense then you need if for an expense, it could also come out of your budget for pre-orders which haven't been delayed.

So you cannot say "i might have this expense so won't have the money for the bluray that's been delayed". If you budget right then you should still be able to afford the delayed, that is unless you have a compulsive disorder which means you have to spend the money just because you have it.

It is really not that hard to budget, if a title gets delayed then those funds can be pushed to the month its delayed to. Not a hard thing to do.

No, it isn't rubbish.

What I am saying is, because leisure funds cannot be guaranteed indefinitely, I have no way to guarantee that I will be able to buy a release three months from now that I would be able to buy today. It has nothing to do with some arbitrary pool of leisure funds for pre-orders.

I would also love to be comfortable enough to know that I can indefinitely move funds around to support whatever delays happen, but again, this is not a reality for myself and for many other people.

[Sky_Captain]

It's called 'saving'. An arcane notion given the self-entitled 'gimme gimme' nature of this forum, but there ya go.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

No, it isn't rubbish.

What I am saying is, because leisure funds cannot be guaranteed indefinitely, I have no way to guarantee that I will be able to buy a release three months from now that I would be able to buy today. It has nothing to do with some arbitrary pool of leisure funds for pre-orders.

I would also love to be comfortable enough to know that I can indefinitely move funds around to support whatever delays happen, but again, this is not a reality for myself and for many other people.

I still don't get it. You're funds are guaranteed if you have them and don't just go spending them on something else just because it's in your 'disc budget' or whatever. I understand unexpected bills and the like, but they stil come no matter when a disc is released.

Your car bill example - if you have $300 to spend on discs that don't get delayed and spend it all, and then the car bill comes, what do you do then?

[bigdavehopes]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

No, it isn't rubbish.

What I am saying is, because leisure funds cannot be guaranteed indefinitely, I have no way to guarantee that I will be able to buy a release three months from now that I would be able to buy today. It has nothing to do with some arbitrary pool of leisure funds for pre-orders.

I would also love to be comfortable enough to know that I can indefinitely move funds around to support whatever delays happen, but again, this is not a reality for myself and for many other people.

Leisure funds can never be guaranteed. It's very simple, you don't just spend the money on another title because the intended purchase has been delayed.
I really don't understand whats so difficult to understand about this.

As for being comfortable enough to move funds around, i'm really not I've just graduated uni and need to find a job so my budget at the moment is £0, having cancel all pre-orders that i had for this month. When I get my next job I will make sure I budget correctly, if you need help making a budget then feel free to ask, i'm there are many people who could help you with it and also explain what to do when a title gets delayed

[unicron73]

well i agree it does seem like some of the smaller companies are having more delays-im still waiting for exposure cinemas release of STAGEFRIGHT.
i save a different way for the films.i have 13 films on pre order from arrow and another 9 from other companies-all of these have been paid for.
i sell on ebay and with the funds pay in advance for my preorders.
i use arrow for there releases,they take the money in advance and zavvi and entertainment store for the rest,they all take paypal and that way i just sit back and wait for them to appear.
the only preorder i have at the moment thats not paid for is from amazon.com and thats the us release of the exorcist boxset..
in fact at the moment i have nothing else i need to preorder so i keep selling and then when something new appears i should have the money sat in my paypal account.
i find this way works for me