A Man for All Seasons (1966) (Limited Edition to 3,000) - SOLD OUT

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

How does this look in motion? The screen caps on here don't look very good.

I shouldn't speak for JK, but I think he was just trying to show the few problems through the caps. He did, afterall give it a 4.5 for video. to quote him," The increase in detail and fine detail over the DVD is almost palpable at times, especially in elements like fabrics and even wall paneling. Increased resolution does tend to point out things like the heavy makeup Welles wears as Wolsey. Contrast is strong and consistent, and the film's sometimes shrouded interior scenes still provide natural looking shadow detail. For the bulk of the transfer grain is also natural and organic looking. Now, on to some less pleasing aspects. While generally sharpness and clarity are excellent..."

IN motion, I did not even notice the halos on my 55". I went back and and froze the image and saw what he was talking about. The grain or fuzzyness is obvious in the opening credits, but does not persist. I think that the video is great, it just does not meet some expectations for a 4K transfer.

Several posters had indicated an interest in ordering this movie from day 1, but there has seemed little comment about it since its release. I have been waiting for others to give their opinion on it, but there have been few posts. I highly recomend it.

[cavesailor]

I was looking at JK’s screen caps again and it occurred to me that many reading his review have not ever seen this film. I have watched my DVD over and over so many times I can almost say the lines. For those who have never seen this film, you need to know that many of the outdoor scenes take place at dusk or early dawn when colors are naturally muted. This is true of many of JK’s screen caps. I wish he had a cap of the king’s boat landing at Thomas Moore’s house. This is a full daylight scene and the colors just explode. This looks fantastic on this Blu-ray.
Now I can give my DVD a long rest while I wear out my Blu-ray.

[imsounoriginal]

Have always heard great things about this movie, and I've loved Paul Scofield in other films, but shamefully I've never seen this. It'll be on TCM early Friday morning so I've set my DVR to record that. Can't justify $30 for a blind-buy of any film, great or not, but hopefully it stays in-stock long enough that if I like the film, I can buy it down the road.

Odd to see Robert Harris rave about this transfer so much when the screencaps here caught some rather alarming halo-ing (even if it is insignificant in-motion) and DVDBeaver was somewhat unenthusiastic about the transfer.

[EddieLarkin]

"Halo-ing", alarming or not, can not be used to criticise a disc if they are the result of original film processes, as opposed to digital post processing. There is nothing to suggest the "halo-ing" is due to the latter rather than the former.

The caps make this look like a near perfect transfer.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by cavesailor

I was looking at JK’s screen caps again and it occurred to me that many reading his review have not ever seen this film. I have watched my DVD over and over so many times I can almost say the lines. For those who have never seen this film, you need to know that many of the outdoor scenes take place at dusk or early dawn when colors are naturally muted. This is true of many of JK’s screen caps. I wish he had a cap of the king’s boat landing at Thomas Moore’s house. This is a full daylight scene and the colors just explode. This looks fantastic on this Blu-ray.
Now I can give my DVD a long rest while I wear out my Blu-ray.

I have never seen this (the only Best Picture since the early 40s I've never seen) and am very much looking forward to. I plan on picking it up during the next promo sale. I am not worried as I have the utmost confidence in the quality of Sony's transfers, but your assessment based on your experience watching the film helps to back that up. Thanks.

[Professor Echo]

In watching the recent series from the UK, WOLF HALL, which was excellent, Thomas More was a real piece of work. I've never seen this interpretation of his story so I will give it a shot. I already have the DVD though, so not sure I will spring for a Blu if it's mostly a dialog driven film.

[Tom Monahan]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

"Halo-ing", alarming or not, can not be used to criticise a disc if they are the result of original film processes, as opposed to digital post processing. There is nothing to suggest the "halo-ing" is due to the latter rather than the former.

The caps make this look like a near perfect transfer.

DVD Beaver was not impressed at all by the transfer.

[EddieLarkin]

DVD Beaver are good at getting discs early and providing some caps. But their reviews are completely worthless and have been for years.

[imsounoriginal]

So I DVR'd the TCM broadcast and watched it over the weekend - it was my first time seeing the movie and I thought it was great. I'll probably watch it again at some point this week, just a very well-made movie, although a minor quibble is that More is portrayed as so perfect that I wish they had made him just slightly flawed and therefore somewhat more human and relatable. I also wish there was more of Robert Shaw, particularly towards the end.

Just out of curiosity, does TT ever have sales? I'd love to buy this movie but I just can't justify paying $30+ for a single movie.

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

So I DVR'd the TCM broadcast and watched it over the weekend - it was my first time seeing the movie and I thought it was great. I'll probably watch it again at some point this week, just a very well-made movie, although a minor quibble is that More is portrayed as so perfect that I wish they had made him just slightly flawed and therefore somewhat more human and relatable. I also wish there was more of Robert Shaw, particularly towards the end.

Just out of curiosity, does TT ever have sales? I'd love to buy this movie but I just can't justify paying $30+ for a single movie.

Glad you liked the movie. When TT started up we were led to believe that the prices were fixed and would not change. Howerver, a year and a few months ago they did have a sale of a few of their movies. A year later, just a few months ago they had a larger sale, but still less than half their titles.

Some posters think this will be annual sale, but TT has never said so. You need to keep in mind that this is a limited edition and could sell out before the next sale if there is one.

[jazzbo]

Originally Posted by Tom Monahan

DVD Beaver was not impressed at all by the transfer.

When I read the DVD Beaver review I think he gives a pretty good allowance for the fact that the problems may be with the source material and not a fault of the transfer itself. Or did we read different reviews?

This a direct quote:
" I am guessing here, but I'd say this flat, heavy appearance, that looks digitized, is more a function of the original production than the transfer (dual-layered with a high bitrate)." (my emphasis)

I tend to agree with the general gist of the review, I've seen this film many times (although not theatrically) and it's always had a dull sheen to it. I had always thought it was partially a stylistic feel for the grittyness of the period represented, and partially a result of the number of exterior and low-light shots. In some ways, large parts of "A Lion in Winter" has the same visual feel for me, to bring up another 60s period piece film, and I don't expect when (if) that arrives on domestic blu-ray that it will be spellbinding visually either regardless of who does the transfer.

Watching the TT blu-ray, it was good as I expected for this film, as none of the versions I've seen in the past would lead one to expect eye-popping visuals for this film; but this is also as good as it has even been.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by cavesailor

Glad you liked the movie. When TT started up we were led to believe that the prices were fixed and would not change. Howerver, a year and a few months ago they did have a sale of a few of their movies. A year later, just a few months ago they had a larger sale, but still less than half their titles.

Some posters think this will be annual sale, but TT has never said so. You need to keep in mind that this is a limited edition and could sell out before the next sale if there is one.

Right, that's what has me nervous. I'm a "fan" of their Facebook page and have noticed that they tend to post little PSAs when a title gets close to being sold out, so I'll keep an eye on that; if it gets dangerously low then I'll pull the trigger, but until then I'll hold out for a sale. I don't mind $20, but I'm reticent about $30.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

a minor quibble is that More is portrayed as so perfect that I wish they had made him just slightly flawed and therefore somewhat more human and relatable.

It's a great movie, but is a bit of a hagiography that ignores huge chunks of More's personal history to emphasise his sainthood. Aside from his ruthless attitude to heretics and atheists (He frequently broke the law and ignored verdicts in trials to persecute reformists and his own writings contain loving descriptions of their torture and execution) or the views about the elderly in Utopia (they should be killed at a certain age so they're not a burden to their children), many of the dubious methods used against him were ones he himself had used against rivals, who he was pretty ruthless about disposing of - something that could possibly have made for more drama. In some ways it was when he was put into the kind of situation he had put so many others into that his better qualities came to the fore as his political manoeuvring failed him and his faith became his guiding principle, so in some ways the real life story is something of a redemption/error of his ways story.

Still, it's a testament to Robert Bolt's abilities as a writer than he managed to create a mythical More that people could aspire to without it seeming an obvious whitewash.

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by Aclea

It's a great movie, but is a bit of a hagiography that ignores huge chunks of More's personal history to emphasise his sainthood. Aside from his ruthless attitude to heretics and atheists (He frequently broke the law and ignored verdicts in trials to persecute reformists and his own writings contain loving descriptions of their torture and execution) or the views about the elderly in Utopia (they should be killed at a certain age so they're not a burden to their children), many of the dubious methods used against him were ones he himself had used against rivals, who he was pretty ruthless about disposing of - something that could possibly have made for more drama. In some ways it was when he was put into the kind of situation he had put so many others into that his better qualities came to the fore as his political manoeuvring failed him and his faith became his guiding principle, so in some ways the real life story is something of a redemption/error of his ways story.

Still, it's a testament to Robert Bolt's abilities as a writer than he managed to create a mythical More that people could aspire to without it seeming an obvious whitewash.

For a lawyer, I have a limited vocabulary as well as poor spelling abilities. I had to look up the word hagiography. Thank you for this information as I have never taken the time to research More. I am rather interested in your source for this information. If true, it seems to put a double meaning or ironic twist on a phrase that I found already ironically humorous, “This isn’t Spain you know”, referring to the Spanish Inquisition.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Aclea

It's a great movie, but is a bit of a hagiography that ignores huge chunks of More's personal history to emphasise his sainthood. Aside from his ruthless attitude to heretics and atheists (He frequently broke the law and ignored verdicts in trials to persecute reformists and his own writings contain loving descriptions of their torture and execution) or the views about the elderly in Utopia (they should be killed at a certain age so they're not a burden to their children), many of the dubious methods used against him were ones he himself had used against rivals, who he was pretty ruthless about disposing of - something that could possibly have made for more drama. In some ways it was when he was put into the kind of situation he had put so many others into that his better qualities came to the fore as his political manoeuvring failed him and his faith became his guiding principle, so in some ways the real life story is something of a redemption/error of his ways story.

Still, it's a testament to Robert Bolt's abilities as a writer than he managed to create a mythical More that people could aspire to without it seeming an obvious whitewash.

As I posted earlier in this thread, the depiction of More in the recent UK series WOLF HALL seems more in tune with reality, or as real as historical records show. Not having seen A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS, I'm hesitant to invest in something that portrays More as saintly. I admire Bolt and love THE BOUNTY, but I don't care for whitewashing and idealizing those whom are undeserving of same. As such, I'll be content with my DVD copy at least for a first viewing.

[John Hodson]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

As I posted earlier in this thread, the depiction of More in the recent UK series WOLF HALL seems more in tune with reality, or as real as historical records show. Not having seen A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS, I'm hesitant to invest in something that portrays More as saintly. I admire Bolt and love THE BOUNTY, but I don't care for whitewashing and idealizing those whom are undeserving of same. As such, I'll be content with my DVD copy at least for a first viewing.

Wolf Hall is utterly wonderful, but so is A Man For All Seasons; Paul Scofield's quite fabulous performance is every bit as good as Mark Rylance's; both pieces take quite different views of the same historical events, Bolt using same as a commentary on contemporary events (Bolt's play and subsequent screenplay have clear allegorical links to matters of identity and conscience that were causing concerns on both sites of the Pond at the time), Mantel's adapted novels, at times, cheekily riffing off Bolt, but standing quite clearly on their own particular strengths.

They are both superb, but neither aims to be utterly faithful to history. First and foremost, they are great dramas; absolutely cracking stories, peopled with fascinating characters and grotesques.

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by John Hodson

Wolf Hall is utterly wonderful, but so is A Man For All Seasons; Paul Scofield's quite fabulous performance is every bit as good as Mark Rylance's; both pieces take quite different views of the same historical events,...........
They are both superb, but neither aims to be utterly faithful to history. First and foremost, they are great dramas; absolutely cracking stories, peopled with fascinating characters and grotesques.

Well I know what my next Blu-rays will be after my order of 1776 comes in, Wolf Hall. I think I will have to start Googleing Thomas More also. Everyone has peaked my interest.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by cavesailor

For a lawyer, I have a limited vocabulary as well as poor spelling abilities. I had to look up the word hagiography. Thank you for this information as I have never taken the time to research More. I am rather interested in your source for this information. If true, it seems to put a double meaning or ironic twist on a phrase that I found already ironically humorous, “This isn’t Spain you know”, referring to the Spanish Inquisition.

Well, the first thing you have to bear in mind is that he was a man of his time: actions we'd now find deplorable were in his day encouraged and seen as honourable, with the Church more or less behaving like ISIS, spreading the faith by the sword and ruthlessly making examples of unbelievers. He was also a skilled courtier at a time when the game was played by not just advancing over your rivals but eradicating them too.

Seen in modern terms he was at best a religious fanatic and at worst a shameless opportunist. He frequently broke the law and ignored verdicts in trials to persecute reformists, had numerous heretics burned at the stake (and wrote of the delight he took in sending them from the temporary fires to the eternal ones of Hell: he wasn't one for allowing them to recant) and even had stocks, a whipping post and instruments of torture in his London house so he could take his work home with him. Far from being revisionist propaganda after his own fall, this is something More took great pride in.

Certainly his ideas and his actions are contradictory: in Utopia he talks of religious tolerance, particularly for Jews (though he seems to advocate the killing of atheists), yet he makes no secret of the delight he took in executing heretics and Protestants. As he told Erasmus: "I find that breed of men absolutely loathsome. I want to be as hateful to them as anyone possibly can be; for my increasing experience with these men frightens me with the thought that the whole world will suffer at their hands."

The stories that he had heretics jaws broken so they couldn't recant at the stake, thus condemning them to Hell, are impossible to verify and probably are black propaganda after he fell from grace, but he certainly rejoiced in the damnation of his perceived enemies. When he had Thomas Hitton, a priest who denied purgatory, was executed, More was overjoyed. In his The Confutation of Tyndale's Answer he wrote: "The spirit of errour and lyenge hath taken his wretched soul with him strayte from the shorte fyre to ye fyre ever lastyng. And this is lo sir Thomas Hitton, the dyuyls stynkyng martyr..." And then there's John Tewkesbury, a leather seller tortured for several days at More's home in the stocks, "his brows twisted with small ropes, so that the blood started out of his eyes." More was also quite delighted with his burning at the stake, writing he had "burned as there was never wretche I wene better worthy," rejoicing that he was in Hell where "Tyndale is like to fynde hym when they come together". To put it into modern context, you have to remember that the execution of people like Tyndale (who translated the Bible into English) was regarded in the same way Osama Bin Laden's death was, if not more extreme - a cause for celebration and a victory over forces that threatened to indiscriminately destroy decent society as it was known at the time (unless, of course, you were on the other side).

Even by the standards of the day, he was a little bit fanatic - especially for England, which didn't make quite as big a deal of that sort of thing as Germany or Spain at the time. The more conciliatory view among some historians and biographers is that he was initially an intolerant opportunist who finally did attain some kind of grace in his downfall, although even that needs a certain amount of looking the other way to work.

The notion that he was much-loved at the time doesn't really chime with the historical record: he was an extremely successful courtier, but he wasn't the champion of the common man he later became after his death. With the growing popular demand for some kind of religious reform, he was seen as a reactionary figure, yet when the chips were down and power shifted he never took a stand (although even from his cell he was still trying to arrange the execution of William Tyndale for translating the Bible into English). Understandable, but as Bolt has him say, not the stuff of martyrs. It's almost as if post-mortem he became a figurehead for all the people who hated him during his life (in much the same way that the same Bolsheviks who attacked Rasputin during his lifetime for his influence at court later used his unpunished murder as a means of attacking the royal family for covering it up).

Aside from tricking Henry into executing one scholar he consulted about his divorce (more, it seems, because he was a threat to More's position in court than anything else) when the church he was so eager to defend with branding iron and bonfire was genuinely under threat, he did absolutely nothing to defend it even though he'd burned himself into a corner. Small wonder he's the patron saint of politicians.

And yet, after doing everything he could to avoid making a stand, there is much to admire in him when it was his turn to be persecuted. As politically opportunistic as he could be, he held fast to his faith and did seem to become a better man by modern standards for it.

And modern standards are always going to be the problem for the historical More: he's a man of extremes, both good and bad, but a man who you have to understand was acting within the accepted morality of his own time.

[imsounoriginal]

Thank you for all of that background. Frankly all this makes me want to find a good documentary on More, and check out Wolf Hall, which I've heard of but had no idea covers some of the same ground as AMFAS.

[filmmusic]

Still waiting for this to come at SAE for the deal..
It would be a blind buy though and I'm not sure.
I rarely do blind buys.
But I love period films.
This reminds me something like Lion in Winter which I also liked very much.