Going back to DVD?

[Corey31]

I can understand someone not wanting to pay to upgrade a movie, in particular if the Blu-Ray is known to not have a great transfer. I also understand buying stuff on DVD that currently doesn't have a Blu-Ray and likely won't. I do that a lot with older TV shows shot and edited on tape. That will never look better than 480p basically.

But downgrade if I already had a Blu-Ray and buy the DVD? Don't get it. A good DVD upconverter can certainly make DVD look better, but it's still taking a 480p image and basically guessing pixels to make it a 1080p (or worse a 4K) image. Resolution isn't everything but it's definitely a big part of the puzzle. The number of Blu-Ray transfers that are laughably bad enough to lose to an upscaled DVD is a very small group.

[nikita70]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I was gonna buy an H6500 but since the J6300 is coming out this year I've decided to wait for that model.

I think the Samsung Blu-Ray Players are the best ones currently available.

If you think that then you've never had an Oppo. My first bluray player was a Samsung. Second was an LG. The Oppo is such a better player I don't know where to begin. Super fast loading. Has NEVER locked up. Has never refused to play a disc. Upscale my DVDs and makes them look great. Sure it was $500 but worth it, IMO. Not saying you have to buy one but I think it's worth the extra dough.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by nikita70

If you think that then you've never had an Oppo. My first bluray player was a Samsung. Second was an LG. The Oppo is such a better player I don't know where to begin. Super fast loading. Has NEVER locked up. Has never refused to play a disc. Upscale my DVDs and makes them look great. Sure it was $500 but worth it, IMO. Not saying you have to buy one but I think it's worth the extra dough.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Oppo players have app hubs or can upscale to 4K, or do 3D. So I guess it depends on what your looking for in terms of feature availability in a player.

[nikita70]

My Oppo is model 103. Has App hub and is a 3D player. IDK about 4K upscaling which doesn't matter to me as I won't be getting a a TV capable of realizing that resolution for a long time.
All I'm saying is do some research if you're looking for a new player. Oppo was recommended to me on this forum and another. I was really on the fence about spending $500 but so glad I did, it's worth it. YMMV, to each their own.
There's a great Oppo thread here on the forum with a lot of information about these players.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by nikita70

My Oppo is model 103. Has App hub and is a 3D player. IDK about 4K upscaling which doesn't matter to me as I won't be getting a a TV capable of realizing that resolution for a long time.
All I'm saying is do some research if you're looking for a new player. Oppo was recommended to me on this forum and another. I was really on the fence about spending $500 but so glad I did, it's worth it. YMMV, to each their own.
There's a great Oppo thread here on the forum with a lot of information about these players.

The 103 4K upscales as well. It pretty much does it all!

[bruceames]

DVD is going to look fine to most people. After all, nearly 70% of all sales revenue still come from DVD.

It just depends on screen size and viewing distance, the particular DVD movie itself, a person's vision, and individual preferences or "pickiness" regarding artifacts and defects.

Some people think Blu-ray looks too grainy on certain movies. I watched the Criterion The Third Man with my wife and she thought it looked all snowy so I put it the DVD and she liked it better. Also, Blu-ray does bring out the flaws more than DVD. Everything is clearer, not just what is supposed to be there.

Also keep in mind that DVD was (and still is) hugely successful and a lot people have a nostalgic attachment to it and they may look upon Blu-ray in a bad light because of that.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by nikita70

If you think that then you've never had an Oppo. My first bluray player was a Samsung. Second was an LG. The Oppo is such a better player I don't know where to begin. Super fast loading. Has NEVER locked up. Has never refused to play a disc. Upscale my DVDs and makes them look great. Sure it was $500 but worth it, IMO. Not saying you have to buy one but I think it's worth the extra dough.

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Oppo players have app hubs or can upscale to 4K, or do 3D. So I guess it depends on what your looking for in terms of feature availability in a player.

I do believe that Oppo Blu-Ray Players live up the the hype and I have thought about buying one but I've chosen not to because I would never use it to it's full extent. I read awhile ago that the Samsung BD-H6500 boasts out Picture & Sound Quality that is identical to the Oppo BDP-103 when using the HDMI connection. Of course the build quality of the Oppo is superior.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

DVD is going to look fine to most people. After all, nearly 70% of all sales revenue still come from DVD.

It just depends on screen size and viewing distance, the particular DVD movie itself, a person's vision, and individual preferences or "pickiness" regarding artifacts and defects.

Some people think Blu-ray looks too grainy on certain movies. I watched the Criterion The Third Man with my wife and she thought it looked all snowy so I put it the DVD and she liked it better. Also, Blu-ray does bring out the flaws more than DVD. Everything is clearer, not just what is supposed to be there.

Also keep in mind that DVD was (and still is) hugely successful and a lot people have a nostalgic attachment to it and they may look upon Blu-ray in a bad light because of that.

I thought that DVD would be dead by the end of the decade but it doesn't look like it is going to happen and it is apparent. DVD sales are still significantly higher than Blu-Ray, DVD is still the standard for Home Video releases, and everything is released on DVD whereas not everything is released on Blu-Ray.

I've realized that Blu-Ray is a niche format and the market is small. The only people who really own a Blu-Ray Player are movie buffs who want to be able to enjoy movies at home in the highest quality currently available.

It actually reminds me of LaserDisc because here in North America LaserDisc was a niche format and the market was small. The only people who owned LaserDisc Players were really just movie buffs who wanted the superior picture & sound quality and to be able to view special features.

I've heard alot of people say that DVD looks like garbage on an HDTV, but many of them connect a DVD Player to an HDTV using Composite Video when they should be using Component Video or if it is an Upscaling DVD Player HDMI. Alot of those people have no idea how good a DVD can look on a HDTV just as long as they are using the proper connections.

[Strapped4Cash]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

DVD is going to look fine to most people. After all, nearly 70% of all sales revenue still come from DVD.

It just depends on screen size and viewing distance, the particular DVD movie itself, a person's vision, and individual preferences or "pickiness" regarding artifacts and defects.

Some people think Blu-ray looks too grainy on certain movies. I watched the Criterion The Third Man with my wife and she thought it looked all snowy so I put it the DVD and she liked it better. Also, Blu-ray does bring out the flaws more than DVD. Everything is clearer, not just what is supposed to be there.

Also keep in mind that DVD was (and still is) hugely successful and a lot people have a nostalgic attachment to it and they may look upon Blu-ray in a bad light because of that.

Good points! I'd add that one problem with Blu Ray is that some people don't want higher definition, or at least not past a certain point. A lot of Blu Ray fans say:

BD = Higher Def, so BD superior

but if some of the consumers want lower Def then that's not automatically the best choice for them. I think that some of it depends on the viewer's preferences, in addition to the good reason you mentioned already.

For example, some viewers watch a lot more TV on disc, or movies that focus on people in everyday situations. If that viewer wants a fantasy where people have few-to-no wrinkles, moles, skin tags, pimples, facial hair on women, body hair on men, etc. then DVD might honestly be the better option for them. Just as some really want to see every detail, there are others who very much don't.

As for another of your points, there are some other reasons I think why DVD buyers might have something against BD besides nostalgia. Look at the push for Blu in recent years, with exclusive bonus features only on Blu, retailer exclusives only on Blu, etc. With more and more releases then if someone wants the special features AND the DVD then they have to buy the movie or tv show twice (in each format). That can be disappointing and expensive.

Another is that every title that a store carries in both formats is another title that can't be carried at all. For people who only buy the more mainstream then it's not a problem, but more and more titles are getting skipped by retailers altogether, and because of that then more are not getting even a DVD release, but only DVD-R/MOD DVD.

I don't know how many people would really be bothered by the above, but considering the overall decline of physical media then every annoyed buyer who slips from regular to occasional, or occasional to never, is a blow to the survival of physical media.

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I thought that DVD would be dead by the end of the decade but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. DVD sales are still significantly higher than Blu-Ray. DVD is still the standard for Home Video releases, everything is released on DVD where as not everything is released on Blu-Ray.

I've realized that Blu-Ray is a niche format and the market is small. The only people who really own a Blu-Ray Player are movie buffs who want to be able to enjoy movies at home in the highest quality currently available.

It actually reminds me of LaserDisc because here in North America LaserDisc was a niche format and the market was small. The only people who owned LaserDisc Players were really just movie buffs who wanted the superior picture & sound quality and all the special features.

I agree (except with the bolded). Past history shows that many formats never caught on, from Beta to LaserDisc, to even the "battle" over what would replace the CD between DAT and mini-discs. Studios and retailers needed to "sell" the buying public on Blu and while they've certainly tried in some ways, I think that in others they didn't understand the public's desires, or were just unlucky (such as the Recession).

One factor I don't often see brought up is how many people were buying VHS tapes to have in their library for the rest of their lives and generations to come (which wasn't helped imo by studios like Disney saying that "This will be the last time in history that Fantasia is ever released for the home market and collector"). Obviously the public didn't understand all the problems with VHS and how future tech would change things, but the fact is that many shoppers had bought into that.

DVD came along and by then many had seen VHS tapes worn out, melted, etc. and the superiority of DVD was an easy argument to make. Also, a lot of VHS titles were only priced for wholesale to rental stores, so lots of titles that had been msrp $119.99 or msrp $149.99 could suddenly be bought at much more reasonable prices like $29.99 msrp. The narrative was easy to follow and I think it convinced most of those people to make DVD the format that they would collect, treasure, and pass on to generations to come. Trying to sell Blu-Ray to such people so soon (relatively) wouldn't go over well, I think.

As for the bolded section, then this really depends on what sort of movies and tv shows that a person collects. Off the top of my head I can name dozens of VHS that have not yet been upgraded to DVD, a few LaserDiscs that haven't either, tv shows that were begun on DVD but cancelled, some never started at all, and lately more titles aren't getting a DVD (or BD) release at all, but are stuck with DVD-R/MOD DVD's. An increasing number of titles that I really want in my collection can't even score DVD's, and I think it'll only get worse. As long as it's more obscure stuff then it's easier to ignore, but it's definitely not "everything" getting a real DVD.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by Strapped4Cash

I agree (except with the bolded). Past history shows that many formats never caught on, from Beta to LaserDisc, to even the "battle" over what would replace the CD between DAT and mini-discs. Studios and retailers needed to "sell" the buying public on Blu and while they've certainly tried in some ways, I think that in others they didn't understand the public's desires, or were just unlucky (such as the Recession).

One factor I don't often see brought up is how many people were buying VHS tapes to have in their library for the rest of their lives and generations to come (which wasn't helped imo by studios like Disney saying that "This will be the last time in history that Fantasia is ever released for the home market and collector"). Obviously the public didn't understand all the problems with VHS and how future tech would change things, but the fact is that many shoppers had bought into that.

DVD came along and by then many had seen VHS tapes worn out, melted, etc. and the superiority of DVD was an easy argument to make. Also, a lot of VHS titles were only priced for wholesale to rental stores, so lots of titles that had been msrp $119.99 or msrp $149.99 could suddenly be bought at much more reasonable prices like $29.99 msrp. The narrative was easy to follow and I think it convinced most of those people to make DVD the format that they would collect, treasure, and pass on to generations to come. Trying to sell Blu-Ray to such people so soon (relatively) wouldn't go over well, I think.

As for the bolded section, then this really depends on what sort of movies and tv shows that a person collects. Off the top of my head I can name dozens of VHS that have not yet been upgraded to DVD, a few LaserDiscs that haven't either, tv shows that were begun on DVD but cancelled, some never started at all, and lately more titles aren't getting a DVD (or BD) release at all, but are stuck with DVD-R/MOD DVD's. An increasing number of titles that I really want in my collection can't even score DVD's, and I think it'll only get worse. As long as it's more obscure stuff then it's easier to ignore, but it's definitely not "everything" getting a real DVD.

You've brought up some really good points.

I think another reason for why the Blu-Ray market is niche is because most people don't care about the advantages that Blu-Ray has over DVD.

Back in the 1980's and the 1990's LaserDisc provided noticeably superior Picture & Sound Quality over VHS. With LaserDisc the bigger the screen the more of an improvement you'd see and Blu-Ray is just like that too.

LaserDisc provided quality that was close to DVD, but in North America most people didn't care for LaserDisc because it wasn't as convenient as VHS. LaserDiscs had to be handled delicately, people didn't want to flip the side or pop in the next disc to finish a movie, they wanted to be able to watch it in one sitting, and VHS didn't have any of those drawbacks. Then when new releases on VHS dropped in price significantly the LaserDisc versions became more expensive.

When DVD launched in 1997 it made sense for everyone to make the upgrade. DVD almost annihilated VHS, the only disadvantages with DVD were you couldn't record on them at that point and if the discs get scratched up they may not play properly. However DVD only had a few minor advantages over LaserDisc but it was alot more convenient because instead of having to handle a twelve inch VideoDisc we were able to get all of that same content, including a few new features, and better Picture Quality on a small five inch VideoDisc which was the exact same size as a Music CD.

I honestly think that people don't want to make the jump to Blu-Ray especially after sinking lots of money into VHS and then again with DVD. It seems like they are sick of new video formats coming out and seeing all of their favourite movies being re-released. For them DVD is good enough and if they take proper care of their discs they'll last forever.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by nikita70

My Oppo is model 103. Has App hub and is a 3D player. IDK about 4K upscaling which doesn't matter to me as I won't be getting a a TV capable of realizing that resolution for a long time.
All I'm saying is do some research if you're looking for a new player. Oppo was recommended to me on this forum and another. I was really on the fence about spending $500 but so glad I did, it's worth it. YMMV, to each their own.
There's a great Oppo thread here on the forum with a lot of information about these players.

Oh right, well I stand corrected. The Oppo models can pretty much do it all, but so can most half decent conventional players these days. So I guess you're paying more for sleek looks and build quality because a lot of reviews say players like the Samsung BD-H6500 which I have and which Riddler95 states, boosts just as good results as far as picture and sound is concerned for DVD and Blu-Ray, but to each their own.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Oh right, well I stand corrected. The Oppo models can pretty much do it all, but so can most half decent conventional players these days. So I guess you're paying more for sleek looks and build quality because a lot of reviews say players like the Samsung BD-H6500 which I have and which Riddler95 states, boosts just as good results as far as picture and sound is concerned for DVD and Blu-Ray, but to each their own.

To each their own...

Oppo does SACD/DVD-A/DSD.

Your Samsung does not.

The Oppo has a real honest to god DAC.

Your Samsung does not.

Granted...quite a few Oppo owners only have them connected HDMI and only spin discs.

They over bought...

To each their own...

[nikita70]

I'm sure there are those who would say I "over bought" as I use my Oppo 103 for playing movies. Really for me it came down to the build quality. I had a Samsung and then I bought an LG. Both of which sucked. No amount of software upgrading ever corrected the issues which were locking up, refusing to play, no memory, slow loading times, etc. I wanted a machine that did what I bought it to do. So I searched forums, read opinions and reviews. Finally decided to get one. Best player by far I've ever had.
The biggest bonus for me was the upscaling it does to DVDs. That wasn't even a thought when I bought it but it makes a definite difference. Seeing as how I have hundreds of DVDs this is very important to me.
You can call me a 'fanboy' or whatever. Maybe I am. I'll be getting another Oppo for a different room in my house.
$500 = happy customer. $100 = frustrated customer. This has been my experience. YMMV.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by schan1269

To each their own...

Oppo does SACD/DVD-A/DSD.

Your Samsung does not.

The Oppo has a real honest to god DAC.

Your Samsung does not.

Granted...quite a few Oppo owners only have them connected HDMI and only spin discs.

They over bought...

To each their own...

Both DVD-Audio & SACD flopped. The only way you can utilize the DAC in an Oppo Blu-Ray Player is if you go with the 7.1/5.1 Analog Audio Connection and as great of an option as it is most people don't use it anymore and prefer to go with HDMI because it is more convenient having one cable go from the player to the receiver instead of three or four sets of stereo analog audio cables.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

Both DVD-Audio & SACD flopped. The only way you can utilize the DAC in an Oppo Blu-Ray Player is if you go with the 7.1/5.1 Analog Audio Connection and as great of an option as it is most people don't use it anymore and prefer to go with HDMI because it is more convenient having one cable go from the player to the receiver instead of three or four sets of stereo analog audio cables.

Flopped?

Tell that to Germany and Brazil.

Not everybody uses an AVR.

Designing a purpose built theatre where the only source is an oppo(being fed two other things) with its analog outs straight to 8 monoblocks(the monoblocks have individual volume pots located at the main seat).

[murphywmm]

I find it very difficult to go back to watching DVD's now that I am so into Blu-ray disc. The difference is so huge. Even a mediocre Blu transfer often looks better than the best DVD.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by nikita70

I'm sure there are those who would say I "over bought" as I use my Oppo 103 for playing movies. Really for me it came down to the build quality. I had a Samsung and then I bought an LG. Both of which sucked. No amount of software upgrading ever corrected the issues which were locking up, refusing to play, no memory, slow loading times, etc. I wanted a machine that did what I bought it to do. So I searched forums, read opinions and reviews. Finally decided to get one. Best player by far I've ever had.
The biggest bonus for me was the upscaling it does to DVDs. That wasn't even a thought when I bought it but it makes a definite difference. Seeing as how I have hundreds of DVDs this is very important to me.
You can call me a 'fanboy' or whatever. Maybe I am. I'll be getting another Oppo for a different room in my house.
$500 = happy customer. $100 = frustrated customer. This has been my experience. YMMV.

I think that Oppo Blu-Ray Players are worth it if you want to have just one machine that'll play almost everything. If you've got a huge collection of CDs, DVDs, BDs, and even DVD-Audio & SACDs then the Oppo is a great option. An Oppo is the way to go if you have a very high end system.

When I was planning on buying an Oppo BDP-103 I spoke to a very knowledgeable AV Salesman and he asked me what exactly I was going to use it for and as soon as I told him my reasons he said to me "honestly, don't go for the Oppo, you'll never use it to it's full extent." He continued and told me "That for my reasons I should simply go with a player from a more common company like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and LG." He and a few other AV Salesman even told me that the Picture & Sound Quality from an Oppo when using HDMI is identical to the more common brands again like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and LG.

Recently two of my cousins each got a modern Blu-Ray player, one got an LG BP350 and the other got a Samsung BD-H5900. I played around with both of them and they are very good units. They both provide excellent Picture & Sound Quality, fast load times, Wi-Fi, several streaming apps, and very good DVD Upscaling but the Samsung definitely offers noticeably superior DVD Upscaling.

[tskwerl]

I'd go with Samsung. I have a player for my tv downstairs and an external writer for my pc. They take a lot of wear and tear. (In my experience.) I've actually bought two for my pc so far and they are my little work horses.

Not much of an opinion for dvd or blu. I think it just depends on what you want and what your setup is. But, one thing I would recommend for both is that everyone back up their discs. Then get an external HD (or 10) to keep those on. You never know when that tiny scratch will turn your limited collector's edition into a coaster.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I think that Oppo Blu-Ray Players are worth it if you want to have just one machine that'll play almost everything. If you've got a huge collection of CDs, DVDs, BDs, and even DVD-Audio & SACDs then the Oppo is a great option. An Oppo is the way to go if you have a very high end system.

Not necessarily! I have a high end home theater, and I didn't invest in a $1,000.00 Oppo blu-ray player because, I'm not going to utilize most of the sophisticated features that it has. I've never adopted to DVD-Audio, nor SACD due to the fact that both formats being a niche market, and have a minimal, and very limited selection of titles. I don't need to have a premium blu-ray player with: Netflix, Pandora Roku, etc or any other internet services just to play my blu-rays and DVDs because, basically that's what the majority of people are using them for.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Not necessarily! I have a high end home theater, and I didn't invest in a $1,000.00 Oppo blu-ray player because, I'm not going to utilize most of the sophisticated features that it has. I've never adopted to DVD-Audio, nor SACD due to the fact that both formats being a niche market, and have a minimal, and very limited selection of titles. I don't need to have a premium blu-ray player with: Netflix, Pandora Roku, etc or any other internet services just to play my blu-rays and DVDs because, basically that's what the majority of people are using them for.

An AV Salesman was the person who told me that Oppo Blu-Ray Players are worth it if you have a very high end system.

But you have brought up some really great points and I agree with you on all of them. I do believe that Oppo Blu-Ray Players are amazing machines but what is the point of spending $500 - $1000 on an Oppo if it is never going to be used to it's full extent, however they are worth it if you want to take advantage of all the features it offers. You mentioned both DVD-Audio & SACD, both formats did not do well at all and I'm sure alot of people who own an Oppo never bought into DVD-Audio & SACD. Blu-Ray Players from more common companies like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, and LG have alot of the same features, streaming apps, and provide Picture & Sound quality that is equivalent to a high end machine like an Oppo and they cost way less.