PS4 and XB1 "Game Consoles" as home Media Servers in Playready 3 notes

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

This is what happens when there's no competition.

Back then Sony faced a battle with the HD-DVD camp so had to pull out all the stops which meant making the PS3 the best cheapest (at the time) option not only for gamers but AV enthusiasts. They saw how PS2 put 100,000s of DVD players in to homes the world over and PS3 was their best bet for BD.

They took huge losses by doing so but it won them the war.

This time around there is no competition, no risks as such since no one is going to come along and steal away billions of dollars by having a rival format win out.

In a way it's better for us since we don't have to go through the drama of another format war. But at the same time the lack of a competing format might not exactly inspire companies to go all out.

Did some research and I have some supported speculation:

The BDA knew what the disk specs for 4K blu-ray would be in 2010.

Modern Blu-ray drives can support 4K blu-ray There is a 2010 patent from Sony which confirms modern blu-ray drives can support 4k blu-ray. The patent discusses a modification to either the coming 4 layer BDXL in the 2010 blu-ray whitepaper or 3 layer 4K blu-ray disks to make them unreadable on older blu-ray drives by inverting the track information. A software change to later higher spec standard blu-ray drives makes them able to read this inverted track information.

For example, if a new version of the Blu-ray Disc that incorporates a multi-layer structure of at least three layers (hereinafter called the Ver. 2.0 disc) becomes commercially available in the future, it could happen that a user would load a Ver. 2.0 disc into a Ver. 1.0 drive.

Basically, because the Blu-ray Disc format is the same, recording and playing back a Ver. 2.0 disc on a Ver. 1.0 drive would not be absolutely impossible. However, if the Ver. 2.0 disc is achieved by using higher density and more layers, it can be assumed that the various types of specifications with which the Ver. 1.0 drive is provided would not the adequate. So a change to the specs of a blu-ray drive would make it usable for 4K. That's what the 2010 blu-ray BD-R whitepaper was all about. They had from 2010 to do this. Sometime after 2010 modern drives could read 4 layer BDXL which means the could easily read 3 Layer commercial disks.

Therefore, in a case where recording and playback of a Ver. 2.0 disc are done on a Ver. 1.0 drive, there is concern that recording errors and playback errors would occur with greater frequency.

This patent is from 2010 is either about the coming 4 layer BDXL disks or 3 layer 4K and may show that the 3 layer with the 2010 Panasonic-Sony tweak was KNOWN at that time in 2010 to be future 4K blu-ray disk. If it's about coming standard blu-ray drives able to read 4 layers then they can read 3 layer 4K disks. The following cite shows that production equipment to make such a disk was shipping late 2013 which means the standard was known much earlier.

Singulus Develops Technology for 100 GB, 4K Triple-Layer Blu-Ray Discs in 2013

1) A 4K drive has to read 1080P blu-ray disks...
2) The disk standard for 4K was known prior to 2013 when production machines were shipping for those disks
3) Sony was involved in setting the disk standard.
4) The PS4 did not ship till Nov 2013
5) Only the 4K blu-ray format and specs were undecided till this year...I.E. parts that can be firmware updated.

Originally Posted by https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=256623

I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K (PowerDVD 14 already does this). So we have it then....

Think about what this means, Windows 8 OEM PCs upgraded with Windows 10 or Older PCs with relatively new AMD or Nvidia dGPUs, XB1 and PS4 can support 4K blu-ray with firmware update.[/QUOTE]The attractive feature will be the digital bridge legal copies and streaming of HD (1080p) and UHD (4k) media in the home.

[Derb]

I'm curious if 3 layer changes would have caused playback to pause briefly on Current BD players..

Take DVD dual layered for example.

Also what ever came to be of HVD? Capable of housing up to 6TB on 1 disc.

[jeff_rigby]

I

Originally Posted by Derb

'm curious if 3 layer changes would have caused playback to pause briefly on Current BD players..

Take DVD dual layered for example.

Also what ever came to be of HVD? Capable of housing up to 6TB on 1 disc.

3 layer shouldn't cause any problems since 4 layer BDXL can be read by most standard read only blu-ray drives since sometime after the 2010 blu-ray BD-R whitepaper outlined the new standards. My guess is by 2012 all modern drives could support it reliably.

HVD was meant to be a rewritable archive format and very expensive with very long write times. 3 Layer blu-ray is a commercial blu-ray for mass production and takes about 4 seconds per layer. Each successive layer add more cost and the potential for an error which can total a disk. While 4 layer blu-ray without the Pansaonic tweak was possible having only three layers with the Panasonic tweak to 33 GB/layer cuts production costs.

[jeff_rigby]

Xbox One DVR features and streaming to other devices/storing content offline and an update; Xbox One DVR Doesn't Work Without External Hard Drive [Update]

1) I guess they don't want a fragmented drive for game play.
2) 1080P recording mentioned which is available only with ATSC 2.0
3) 2 TB Gamestop USB drive mentioned.
4) Xbox One's existing user interface will be completely redesigned with a new update, scheduled to arrive before the end of the year.
5) Another feature coming with the system update will be the option to transfer TV show files onto a Windows 10 tablet within the same home network. This means that the tablet will store the downloaded shows, and will be able to play them offline and on the go.

The last option is likely a Playready ND feature which should be supported by other platforms.

ATSC 2.0 can now be implemented by Antenna TV channels and it allows the use of h.264 on sub channels which can either double the number of channels or allow 1080P and S3D. Just using Mpeg2 nearly every local TV station now has 3 sub channels with Movies, Decade, This, Get TV ....showing older movies and TV series. This is making Antenna TV competitive with cable. But only newer Smart TVs can support h.264 or the other features coming with ATSC 2.0. Older TVs need a STB like PCs, PS4, XB1, PS3 or a number of coming Vidipath certified STBs with either a USB or Network tuner.

Sling TV and Playstation Vue are offering choice but at this time are limited to major markets which can support the bandwidth for pure IPTV but cable wants to go the same route by 2020 so bandwidth is increasing and plans for DOCSIS 3.1 which will allow this are well underway. Sony started a Antenna TV network called GET TV and has a Cable TV IPTV network called Playstation VU so they are betting on a number of non-traditional Cable TV schemes.

The FCC DSTAC is going to recommend a Downloadable Security Scheme to replace the cable card and that is going to open up the XB1, PS4 and PCs as DVRs for cable TV. The same DRM certification for them to be DVRs on Cable will allow them to support Antenna TV DVR and the sharing of the media in the home over the home network. DVR ability and TV tuners for Antenna TV have been recently announced for XB1 and that it supports 1080P which is coming with ATSC 2.0. The same hardware can be used in 2016 with a DSS on Cable TV.

The two proposals by the FCC DSTAC for a Cable TV Downloadable Security scheme are (Sony's passage will likely be used with both):

1) Vidipath (Used with Cable TV Gateways, first DVRs and then direct from a cable modem with DLNA) PDF on Sony's passage has the center and lower path page 12 with a Cable TV downloadable security scheme using Vidipath. For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.

2) HTML5 <video> EME MSE (Used with TV Tuners then later direct IPTV from a cable modem) from the browser or an APP. An APP may be required for special features not supported by the browser. The example given was gesture control but Gesture and Voice control are or will be part of some browsers. Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC is about using clear QAM tuners (USB, PC Card and Network tuners) with PCs, PS4, Phones and Tablets as the client using the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme) (page 10 and 11). A picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 is using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables.

The 2010 Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint (XB1) has the HD Homerun listed third row down, third column from the left. These two tuners were chosen by the W3C's TV working group as standards and their control schemes will be used as the APIs for the Network and USB tuner control standards supported by W3C extensions to Javascript. HTML5 TV tuner Control will work for both Cable TV and Antenna TV.

Comcast just signed an agreement with Sony to use Passage. This plus last year's Sony Job posting for a Sony representative to help cable companies with Vidipath, Miracast and more mean it's likely soon.

After Jan 2015 Microsoft is not charging for the use of their Playready server. They would only do that if they think it would become a standard used by Cable TV. This also gives us that Microsoft knows this is coming in 2015. The current listed DTCP-IP DRM for Vidipath is WMDRM10 which is a subset of Playready versions lower than 3. Vidipath's Cable TV FCC mandate was delayed by a Tivo suit to June 2015 and it was always planned for Vidipath to be upgraded to support HEVC and OTT 4K media by 2016. WMDRM10 is not secure enough to support what content owners want for 1080P and higher resolutions like 4K; thus Playready ND and Playready ports 2.5-3 ).

Vidipath was supposed to be implemented June 2014 with Playready for OTT VOD from the cloud and the subset WMDRM10 supporting 1080i and lower resolutions for in home streaming (DTCP-IP) which were the limits of Cable TV broadcast at that time. There are now two versions of Playready in home streaming 1) WMDRM10 now called WMDRM ND and 2) Playready ND. Playready can Digital bridge between the two and media can tell Playready whether it's Master quality requiring the highest DRM security to lowest (500K pixels) not requiring DRM.

Antenna TV's ATSC 2.0 and Cable TV's Vidipath dovetail nicely with each other supporting the same standards with the same hardware. The first two cites for the XB1 show Microsoft prepping to support Antenna TV's ATSC 2.0. Since a Vidipath certified platform can support ATSC 2.0 with a USB or network tuner and the tuners also support Cable TV's QAM my cites of the FCC DSTAC with Sony's passage PDF showing the PS3 and PS4 as Vidipath and clients for DSS show the 2016 plans.

[Mavrick]

I think that it's a software update away from being uhd ready.

HDMI 1.4 to 2.0a is a software upgrade not hardware, same goes for HDCP.

So the only reason PS4 wouldn't playback UHD is if Sony didn't want it to. But there's no technical reason it couldn't.