Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation

[Icemouth]

Originally Posted by Ruined

This just speculation, but technically with the UHD Blu-ray online activation technology standard they can still enforce regions through IP address. i.e. if you buy a UK Blu-ray you need a UK IP address to activate it. And that might be a choice of the activating studio, so one UK title may be okay to activate in Canada while another requires a UK IP address.

100% guarantee they'll have another way. VPN's are way too easy, and this would make cross-region playing vastly easier and cheaper, no way they'd let something be almost beneficial (threw up a little while typing that last part)

[punisher]

Originally Posted by sperezmore

Anybody remember DVIX Disc and Cicuit City?

They are Dead now




Regards,

Wow I was just thinking the same thing....LOL.........

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by DickieT

I agree. I suspect the disc validation may be checking for fakes. The ip logging just doesn't make sense as most ISP use dynamic IP addresses. I have Comcast and it doesn't change often, but it does change. It will also change every time it sees a new modem or router connected to the modem as IP addresses are issued to MAC addresses, not service address.

AACS 2.0 keys are not tied to a IP or mac address. They are received and stored on the player. In basic mode the key comes with the disk, in extended you need brief internet connectivity to acquire it once. UHD media is no longer region based as previously posted on another thread.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

AACS 2.0 keys are not tied to a IP or mac address. They are received and stored on the player. In basic mode the key comes with the disk, in extended you need brief internet connectivity to acquire it once. UHD media is no longer region based as previously posted on another thread.

You don't think the server that hosts the certificate files is going to log the IP address of the player that downloads the certificate file, like pretty much every server is setup to download any file of importance in general?

I can almost guarantee they will log IPs and perhaps even do checks before delivering the file, as if one IP address tries to download the same certificate file 20x in an hour something fishy is going on - but they would not know that unless they logged IP to certificate downloaded on the server side, which I am certain they will if at all competent in IT.

I would check out the "Forensics lab" section of the leaked AACS2.0 specs, as they imply they will do this sort of snooping.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

UHD media is no longer region based as previously posted on another thread.

According to the database specs all or most the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs being released in the United States claim that they are region A locked. One will have to wait for the discs to be released to verify. I have a hard time believing the studios would make all 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray titles region free.


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Exodus-Gods-and-Kings-4K-Blu-ray/145678/

[tezster]

Maybe they mean the BD is region-locked, which it could very well be, but the UHD blu-ray disc is region free. My impression is that region-coding isn't even part of the UHD blu-ray standard.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

According to the database specs all or most the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs being released in the United States claim that they are region A locked. One will have to wait for the discs to be released to verify. I have a hard time believing the studios would make all 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray titles region free.


https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Exodus-Gods-and-Kings-4K-Blu-ray/145678/

This web site isn't set up for UHD in mind. That would be the BD region coding.

[HDTV1080P]

That would be a big selling advantage if the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs were really region free. Any 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player in the world could then play the 4K Blu-ray disc as long as SD material was not on the disc (some Blu-ray players have issues with NTSC/PAL). 1080i in theory should also be ok since the new players are all suppose to handle 50Hz and 60Hz material.

Of course, 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players in the USA will still be region locked for DVD region 1 and standard Blu-ray region A.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by sperezmore

Guys, guys.... Don't sweet over it.

It will be broke...like region free is now.

Regards,

I agree. Some bod will take it on as a challenge and it will be out shortly after release. I'll bet there's already a downloader for 4K streamed content if you know where to look.

[Ruined]

I have no doubt it will be cracked.

But having to crack something just to watch the movie at all down the road, nevermind copy it, is a bit ridiculous to me. One should not have to depend on SlySoft to merely watch the movies one purchased, and this is a very real scenario down the road with online activation.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Did you ever see Oppo put out a press release that they were incorporating Cinavia DRM into the 103/105, which Oppo did do as required by the BDA?

Lets see its in all the Oppo manuals if you haven't noticed:

Cinavia Notice
This product uses Cinavia technology to limit the use of unauthorized copies of some commercially-produced film and videos and their soundtracks. When a prohibited use of an unauthorized copy is detected, a message will be displayed and playback or copying will be interrupted.
More information about Cinavia technology is provided at the Cinavia Online Consumer Information Center at http://www.cinavia.com. To request additional information about Cinavia by mail, send a postcard with your mailing address to: Cinavia Consumer Information Center, P.O. Box 86851, San Diego, CA, 92138, USA.

This is a requirement for all Blu-ray players starting in 2012. You cannot produce a Blu-ray player under license without it. So why would Oppo specifically have to have a press release about this?

Originally Posted by Ruined

Why in the world would they want to advertise restrictive DRM? Bottom line it is part of AACS2.0 and required by BDA, thus either you implement it or you don't release a UHD player.

Its called AACS2 or UltraHD AACS and this discussion belongs in Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K forum not the Blu-ray Players and Recorders IMHO.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Lets see its in all the Oppo manuals if you haven't noticed:

Ok... And online activation is in the Samsung UHD player manual. The Oppo manual isn't available yet but I am sure it will be there when it is.

This is a requirement for all Blu-ray players starting in 2012. You cannot produce a Blu-ray player under license without it. So why would Oppo specifically have to have a press release about this?

Same goes for online activation and UHDBD, which why I made the comment when someone stating online activation not being official until Oppo makes an "official statement" outside of what their rep said and the UHDBD requirements.

Its called AACS2 or UltraHD AACS and this discussion belongs in Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K forum not the Blu-ray Players and Recorders IMHO.

Not exactly, Oppo is different than other Blu-ray manufacturers in that they only have 1 or 2 players and they informed me that this would continue to be the case with UHDBD, with standard BD players being discontinued once the UHDBD players are available.

Given that Oppo is "special" in terms of player quality and video processing, it is definitely worth notifying people who have not yet bought an Oppo yet but wish to that they will be faced with the choice of the 103D/105D without online activation or a UHDBD player with online activation. There will be some overlap time before the former is sold out, but if you wait too long you may be stuck with the latter when you don't want it.

Thus, this thread belongs in this forum because it pertains to the eventual lack of availability of a traditional BD player from Oppo in the near future.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Ok... And online activation is in the Samsung UHD player manual. The Oppo manual isn't available yet but I am sure it will be there when it is.

Per UBD-K8500 owners manual:

Because AACS (Advanced Access Content System) is approved as content protection system for Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc and Blu-ray Disc format, similar to use of CSS (Content Scramble System) for DVD format, certain restrictions are imposed on playback, analog signal output, etc., of AACS protected contents.
The operation of this product and restrictions on this product may vary depending on your time of purchase as those restrictions may be adopted and/or changed by AACS after the production of this product. Furthermore, BD-ROM Mark and BD+ are additionally used as content protection systems for Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc and Blu-ray Disc formats, which imposes certain restrictions including playback restrictions for BD-ROM Mark and/or BD+ protected contents. To obtain additional information on AACS, BD-ROM Mark, BD+, or this product, please contact the SAMSUNG customer care center.
• Many Ultra HD Blu-ray Discs/Blu-ray Discs/DVDs are encoded with copy protection. Because of this, you should only connect your Player directly to your TV, not to a VCR. Connecting to a VCR results in a distorted picture from copy-protected Ultra HD Blu-ray Discs/Blu-ray Discs/DVDs.
• Under the U.S. Copyright laws and Copyright laws of other countries, unauthorized recording, use, display, distribution, or revision of television programs, videotapes, Ultra HD Blu-ray Discs, Blu-ray Discs, DVDs, and other materials may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability.

They also discuss the obvious requirement to have a HDMI 2.0/HDCP compliant path to the display with this statement:

If the AACS 2.0 was applied to the contents that you want to play, it may not be displayed on the screen depending on the AV receiver connected. For more detailed information, refer to the user manual of your AV receiver.

So for people that have no internet, its going to be a very tough sell of UHD media or even BD media that isn't playable unless you have a internet connection. Even tougher to think UHD streaming will be a alternative.

P.S. Even if the future product supports all aspects of potential AACS2, it doesn't necessary mean those will be implemented. We'll see.

[Ruined]

This is the important part:
Samsung UHD Blu-ray player manual, tucked in the Appendix p.50:
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...00-ZA_1203.pdf

Originally Posted by SAMSUNG

• What is a valid certificate?

When the product uses BD-LIVE to send the disc data and a request to the server to certify the disc, the server uses the transmitted data to check if the disc is valid and sends the certificate back to the product.

[JohnAV]

^ But they also have that in the Samsung BD-J7500 manual, page 48?

• What is a valid certificate?
When the product uses BD-LIVE to send the disc data and a request to the server to certify the disc, the server uses the transmitted data to check if the disc is valid and sends the certificate back to the product.

That BD player was first available April 12th 2015 BTW.

Not saying they couldn't try something that way, just that a lot of players have the option to disable BD-Live.

[uncledougie]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

This is how I see it...

So, player breaks, decide to upgrade to a new player etc. Your disc won’t play. Buy a used disc from someone? Disc won’t play. You need to clear your players memory for whatever reason? Disc won’t play. Friend wants to borrow a movie? Forget about it. China doesn’t like a particular movie? Easy for them to block it via this mechanism. Worse, anyone not knowing all these new rules could find themselves slapped with a lawsuit from the MPIAA because you’ve been flagged as a pirate for playing an unauthorized disc.

Looks like I’ll have to be content with 1080p until I die. Likely stock up on the last players from Pioneer and/or Oppo before all this BS is implemented in new players.

If UHD discs require a handshake with a specific player and are useless on, say, a second player in another room, or can't be resold in a garage sale or loaned to a friend, and the studios and manufacturers are of the mind that even after you buy something you don't have any right to view it unless and until they say you do, not to mention constantly tracking through your IP address what you are watching and when (and sharing it with Homeland Security? Advertisers? Who Knows Who?), I'm out on the format. What if they decide they want to charge you a fee anytime you want to watch it? This may kill UHD BD before it even gets out of the starting gate, or it will slowly kill it by attrition once they start implementing the activation coding. Maybe this will be rethought and revised by cooler heads, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by uncledougie

If UHD discs require a handshake with a specific player and are useless on, say, a second player in another room, or can't be resold in a garage sale or loaned to a friend, and the studios and manufacturers are of the mind that even after you buy something you don't have any right to view it unless and until they say you do, not to mention constantly tracking through your IP address what you are watching and when (and sharing it with Homeland Security? Advertisers? Who Knows Who?), I'm out on the format. What if they decide they want to charge you a fee anytime you want to watch it? This may kill UHD BD before it even gets out of the starting gate, or it will slowly kill it by attrition once they start implementing the activation coding. Maybe this will be rethought and revised by cooler heads, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Are we headed for paranoia now? Just wondering? Beside this type of discussion really belongs in the Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K forum!

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

So for people that have no internet, its going to be a very tough sell of UHD media or even BD media that isn't playable unless you have a internet connection. Even tougher to think UHD streaming will be a alternative.

P.S. Even if the future product supports all aspects of potential AACS2, it doesn't necessary mean those will be implemented. We'll see.

More proof in licensing requirements (see attachment) - row 6 column 2, AACS online activation required in all UHDBD players. BDP-103D/105D will be last Oppos without online activation again confirmed. This data should be known by all Oppo fans, as some may not want a player with this tech and this will be only option post-103/105.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

More proof in licensing requirements (see attachment) - row 6 column 2, AACS online activation required in all UHDBD players. BDP-103D/105D will be last Oppos without online activation again confirmed. This data should be known by all Oppo fans, as some may not want a player with this tech and this will be only option post-103/105.

Per Digital Bits:

Back to Ultra HD Blu-ray… one thing that’s surprised me is how much more “ready” the format is at launch that Blu-ray Disc was. Remember how some of those early Blu-ray players were barely functional, even at the $1K-plus entry price point? Remember how BD-Java sucked for a long time? Remember how many discs simply wouldn’t work with some players, and how some players had trouble with BD-50 discs? Yeah. Not so with Ultra HD. The basic spec has been tested to death. Triple-layer UHD BD discs are being manufactured right now in high yields and these discs already work just fine on launch hardware. Authoring UHD BD titles is a simple evolution from authoring existing BD software. In fact, I spoke with Scenarist managing partner Rolf Hartley at some length at CES, and he told me that the company’s UHD authoring software is essentially just an update of the software already widely used by Blu-ray authoring professionals today. They’ve been working with the spec for many months now, and things are so stable that when the very first prototype UHD Blu-ray players started to arrive in-house from Samsung and Panasonic, they worked with no hiccups right out of the box. That’s a far cry from the case with the launch of Blu-ray, I can tell you!

I see things publicly written that are very positive with 4K UHD media playback, compared to snippets from sources worried about the next DRM. If you want to stock up on older BD players, go right ahead, we been there before with the cinavia DRM and don't buy the new players, instead get those BDP-93/95 players.

[Omegaice]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I see things publicly written that are very positive with 4K UHD media playback, compared to snippets from sources worried about the next DRM. If you want to stock up on older BD players, go right ahead, we been there before with the cinavia DRM and don't buy the new players, instead get those BDP-93/95 players.

I'm waiting to see how the UHDBDs will play out & also to see Oppo announce their entry into the 4K world. Until then I'll keep rocking my 93!