Blu-ray is 1080p, so why care about 4k scans?

[Trax-3]

Originally Posted by 42041

Well, that's basically what I'm saying - the resolution of the 2K DI tells you nothing about how the image was harvested and the things that actually matter for bluray.
And likewise, for older films, that something is a 4K transfer doesn't tell you much about the source they used. While it's usually a good assumption that they scanned camera negative, there are some 4K transfers made from downstream elements where the 4K resolution is pretty much wasted.

The capture resolution is what counts. Whether they scan at 4k and work at 4k or scan at 4k and work at 2k isn't all that important.

And Sony and Grover Crisp certainly disagree with your second point having stated that all 35mm, regardless of age or generation, should be scanned at 4k (and will look better for it).

Again, people are scanning Super8 in 4k these days. Anything less for any kind of 35 is just silly.

[Trax-3]

Originally Posted by hedliniv

Ghostbusters is a great example. The first blu-ray was a snow storm!

Exactly! It's a grainy film and all that grain needs to be properly resolved. Few things look uglier than poorly resolved grain both on stills and in particular in motion.

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Here's a little test. Two images. Both have two green boxes. One 40 pixels square and one pixel square. One image is 1080p native. The other is 4k native scaled down to 1080p. Which one is which?



http://i.imgur.com/Leu6IF8.png



http://i.imgur.com/YXNcIK1.png

[42041]

Originally Posted by Trax-3

And Sony and Grover Crisp certainly disagree with your second point having stated that all 35mm, regardless of age or generation, should be scanned at 4k (and will look better for it).

There's no real reason not to if you've got as many Scanity machines as Sony does, but I certainly wouldn't guess "As Good As It Gets" or "Fright Night" were brand new 4K scans if Robert Harris didn't say so.

[42041]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnDrakexxx

Here's a little test. Two images. Both have two green boxes. One 40 pixels square and one pixel square. One image is 1080p native. The other is 4k native scaled down to 1080p. Which one is which?

[snip]

That is not a useful example.
The problem is, fundamentally, aliasing during analog-to-digital conversion, which causes irreversible artifacts of the image.
Here's what aliasing can do to grain:

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by spectre08

that's precisely the point. Even when viewing AT 1080p the difference is noticeable. Overall the image captured at 4K is sharper and cleaner. full stop.

Originally Posted by 42041

Well, it isn't that simple, because aliasing is a thing, and you can deal with it much better if you oversample in the digital domain.

Which one is the native 1080p image and which one is the 4k downsampled to 1080p? Not a trick. I will tell you if you guess correctly.

http://i.imgur.com/Leu6IF8.png

http://i.imgur.com/YXNcIK1.png

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by 42041

That is not a useful example.
The problem is, fundamentally, aliasing during analog-to-digital conversion, which causes irreversible artifacts of the image.
Here's what aliasing can do to grain:

Your image is not loading for me. I know what aliasing is.

[42041]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnDrakexxx

Your image is not loading for me. I know what aliasing is.

Your line of reasoning here suggests you clearly don't.

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by 42041

Your line of reasoning here suggests you clearly don't.

Just a few posts earlier you suggested that upscaling DVD would make it HD. I think if anyone's knowledge is in question, it's yours.

[42041]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnDrakexxx

Just a few posts earlier you suggested that upscaling DVD would make it HD. I think if anyone's knowledge is in question, it's yours.

Shoo, troll.

[cms382]

For the same reason that a CD that was recorded at the playback bit depth and sample rate will sound poor.

[flyry]

so does this mean all the MI4K releases will be released in true 4k on UHD and make us feel like we have to buy them all over again?

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by flyry

so does this mean all the MI4K releases will be released in true 4k on UHD and make us feel like we have to buy them all over again?

If you want ACTUAL 4k, then yes. 4k on Blu-ray is just a gimmick. UHD discs are actually 4k res with HDR and wider color gamut support.

[MifuneFan]

There's no way this isn't a sock account.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnDrakexxx

If you want ACTUAL 4k, then yes. 4k on Blu-ray is just a gimmick. UHD discs are actually 4k res with HDR and wider color gamut support.

i realize that..what i was asking is if its a guarantee all the recent mi4k catalog titles will for certain be released on UHD

[42041]

Originally Posted by flyry

i realize that..what i was asking is if its a guarantee all the recent mi4k catalog titles will for certain be released on UHD

Until the format is on the market and it's clear that it's succeeding or failing, nothing is guaranteed.

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

There's no way this isn't a sock account.

If you're referring to me, it's not. What would make you say that?

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnDrakexxx

If you're referring to me, it's not. What would make you say that?

I have to much faith in humanity to think somebody could really be as ignorant and obstinate as you are being. It has to be a deliberate shtick.

I wish I still had my D1 and my D80 so I could actually take pictures to demonstrate definitively how incorrect you are.

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by flyry

i realize that..what i was asking is if its a guarantee all the recent mi4k catalog titles will for certain be released on UHD

Obviously no one knows, but MI are popular films so I would guess they'll eventually see true 4k releases. As always the big action flicks will be the first to come out and the MI series definitely fits that bill.

[xxxJohnDrakexxx]

Originally Posted by spectre08

I have to much faith in humanity to think somebody could really be as ignorant and obstinate as you are being. It has to be a deliberate shtick.

I wish I still had my D1 and my D80 so I could actually take pictures to demonstrate definitively how incorrect you are.

Gee, thanks for making me feel like garbage.