The Market Is Torn Apart

[shireguy]

Originally Posted by Strapped4Cash

In SoCal there is also Barnes & Noble and FYE, who have the largest range of titles available. Usually they're the most expensive, both chains are reported to be in trouble, FYE has closed some stores around here in the last year (and so there aren't a lot of them), but they are both still in the business.

ah... B&N .... the ONLY time that this store ever gets a mention on Blu-ray.com is twice a year - and for a specific sale !! The DVD/CD section of B&N is often a 'depressing' section where people occasionally venture into to have a laugh at their prices.

FYE.... eccckk !! I shudder whenever I went into one of their shops - racks with 2nd hand stock mixed in with new ones.

I bet that there's is no one here buying 4K from these chains ??

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Why? If you have no interest in 4K?

Why? Because I'm tired of hearing that 4K is doing so exceptionally well. I want to see the figures, the proof....that's why.

[azmodeous]

Originally Posted by shireguy

ah... B&N .... the ONLY time that this store ever gets a mention on Blu-ray.com is twice a year - and for a specific sale !! The DVD/CD section of B&N is often a 'depressing' section where people occasionally venture into to have a laugh at their prices.

FYE.... eccckk !! I shudder whenever I went into one of their shops - racks with 2nd hand stock mixed in with new ones.

I bet that there's is no one here buying 4K from these chains ??

There are certain things that I can find in Barnes and Noble that I can't find anywhere else. Their selection of BBC titles are great in my area. They have other random sales if you keep your eyes peeled, but the Criterion sale is their biggest deal.

FYE is pretty awful though, I agree. Their prices are ridiculously high as everything is priced at msrp and every time I go in there I feel like I'm being treated like a shoplifter. I can't imagine how much they're charging for 4K Blu-ray in these stores.

[KillaCam]

Originally Posted by shireguy

ah... B&N .... the ONLY time that this store ever gets a mention on Blu-ray.com is twice a year - and for a specific sale !! The DVD/CD section of B&N is often a 'depressing' section where people occasionally venture into to have a laugh at their prices.

FYE.... eccckk !! I shudder whenever I went into one of their shops - racks with 2nd hand stock mixed in with new ones.

I bet that there's is no one here buying 4K from these chains ??

I purchased Enders Game UHD from my local FYE for $19.99 a couple weeks ago. Most of their UHD discs are marked at MSRP with a sale sticker for $29.99. At least that's how it was at the store here. I really enjoy shopping there even though the prices do tend to be a little higher but they have a lot better selection than any other stores here and usually can get a good deal on used stuff if they have buy one get one free or some other promotion going on.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by steve1971

Why? Because I'm tired of hearing that 4K is doing so exceptionally well. I want to see the figures, the proof....that's why.

And if it isn't doing well? Presumably you want to tell us all how bad it's doing?

[Strapped4Cash]

Originally Posted by shireguy

ah... B&N .... the ONLY time that this store ever gets a mention on Blu-ray.com is twice a year - and for a specific sale !! The DVD/CD section of B&N is often a 'depressing' section where people occasionally venture into to have a laugh at their prices.

Almost true about the Blu-ray.com mentions, but this year they got some additional conversation in the Game of Thrones Season 5 thread, as they had an exclusive US disc: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Game-...lu-ray/150475/

And people do request coupons year round from that thread when they are sent out, so people must be buying something. I guess it could be books, or any of the abundance of other stuff, but it might be movies too.

FYE.... eccckk !! I shudder whenever I went into one of their shops - racks with 2nd hand stock mixed in with new ones.

I wasn't at all a fan of that mixing either, but they do rarely have some great sales. For example, the The Superman Motion Picture Anthology for $25. Or the Spartacus: The Complete Collection (TV) series for $40. I also sometimes found oop titles there. Perhaps because so few would actually buy new from them then they lingered?

In any event, as has been mentioned, both store selections do have inventory unavailable at the other chains, and I have heard that not everyone is money-conscious enough to worry about the pricing. Or places greater importance on buying and having the item same day, or purchasing locally, etc.

I bet that there's is no one here buying 4K from these chains ??

The person above! Thanks for that KillaCam.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

And if it isn't doing well? Presumably you want to tell us all how bad it's doing?

If it isnt doing so well then it wouldnt surprise me and no I wouldnt tell you guys how bad its doing because I think you can make up your own minds. Like I said I personally could give a crap less about 4K/HDR but if its doing so well as some claim show me the numbers compared to the sales of Blu ray and better yet the sales of dvd. I know in the beginning formats have growing pains but 4K has been around for what? 2 years now? Hell Blu ray never fully caught on and in some instances its still being outsold by dvd and yet they still come out with 4K and they think by adding HDR that its going to be that much of a difference? If Sony was so confident of 4K/HDR then why no release of a 4K Blu ray player? Why the wait and see game by them? Why hasnt Disney jumped on board? How come I go to my local Walmarts and Targets and see no 4K Blu ray disc's being sold? Some will say it takes time but in todays day and age 4K/HDR dont have time on its side especially with Downloads and Streaming getting popular by the day. Physical disc is nearing an end and I hate the thought of it but it is what it is and 4K/HDR is a little to late to the party in my book. Sorry but I wont support a format that I see no value in or something that I need to have but thats just me.

[SilentNoise]

Unbelievable, the format launched like 2 months ago and now the haters are already jumping in claiming doom and failure.

Give it some time to develop guys, nothing is perfect at start.

[azmodeous]

HDR has been a thing in televisions for less than a year and UHD blu-rays just launched in March, for that short of a period the sales have been better than studios had projected. It's actually selling better than blu-ray did at this point in their launch:
http://4k.com/news/more-than-1-5-mil...v-sales-14406/

I think the mass audience (who's willing to buy physical media) may be far enough removed from DVD now to give a new format a shot. With the jump in not just resolution but contrast and colour that this offers I can see people being a bit more enticed to make a jump now.

[ray0414]

Rumor on avforums is that the Panasonic 4k player is/was back ordered 2500 units at 1 point.

[SilentNoise]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Rumor on avforums is that the Panasonic 4k player is/was back ordered 2500 units at 1 point.

That would not surprise me because it is impossible to get hold of one here in Europe (which does not have an estimated delivery time of several or more weeks).

[shireguy]

Originally Posted by azmodeous

I think the mass audience (who's willing to buy physical media) may be far enough removed from DVD now to give a new format a shot. With the jump in not just resolution but contrast and colour that this offers I can see people being a bit more enticed to make a jump now.

based on what ??

contrast and colour.

So... the ones that didn't 'jump' onto Blu-ray - with it's promotion of : Discover the True Meaning of High Definition / The Best High Definition Picture / Crystal Clear Master Quality Sound / Full 1920 x1080p - Experience movies the way filmmakers intended.... will just just jump ??

(* sorry.. just that I have an old SONY insert on how magnificent Blu-ray 'will be' from 2006 in front of me - and regurgitating it here). 2006.. and 10 year later... and Blu is still being outsold by DVD.


I'd love to see how this 'jump' will go with some of the major B&M retailers.

Originally Posted by SilentNoise

Unbelievable, the format launched like 2 months ago and now the haters are already jumping in claiming doom and failure.

added.. this labelling of 'haters' towards those that have a strong interest in home theatre and media is a bit un-deserving : we were the ones that got into Blu-ray, and still do - and are the ones that are pragmatic when it comes to this business and hobby.

[azmodeous]

Originally Posted by shireguy

based on what ??

contrast and colour.

So... the ones that didn't 'jump' onto Blu-ray - with it's promotion of : Discover the True Meaning of High Definition / The Best High Definition Picture / Crystal Clear Master Quality Sound / Full 1920 x1080p - Experience movies the way filmmakers intended.... will just just jump ??

(* sorry.. just that I have an old SONY insert on how magnificent Blu-ray 'will be' from 2006 in front of me - and regurgitating it here). 2006.. and 10 year later... and Blu is still being outsold by DVD.


I'd love to see how this 'jump' will go with some of the major B&M retailers.




added.. this labelling of 'haters' towards those that have a strong interest in home theatre and media is a bit un-deserving : we were the ones that got into Blu-ray, and still do - and are the ones that are pragmatic when it comes to this business and hobby.

I think down the line people will turn around to it. I see your point on the mass audience at this point as after I posted that I had to make a run into town and stopped to see that Walmart had pretty much set up their 2016 new model tvs and there was not a single HDR capable set to be found there. Maybe once the ATSC 3.0 launches and we start getting over the air 4K HDR signals for programming then the mass market starts getting in line for new sets. Physical media may see a few more people jump on once they do because I've see people who say they couldn't tell the difference between DVD and blu-ray actually get wowed by HDR and there are a few people still buying dvds exclusively that prefer physical copies still.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by bruceames

I think we're lucky to get a new format at all. All things considering, UHD BD has started off really well. Both hardware and software sales have exceeded expectations and player issue problems have been almost non-existence. Far far better than Blu-ray's launch.

As far as studio support, no video format has ever had all the studios on board from day 1.

I remember the Format Wars, which is the reason that studios were shy about signing on. Though it was the first example of a short-sighted, nightmare rollout, I understood it was a sea change and tolerated the foolishness as long as possible.


My first player was a Sony, $500 cash. There was massive confusion still
about sound modes - and I wound up getting others, later. Still had to wait for some studios to climb aboard, as late as 2007. I got in back in 2006.

Originally Posted by bruceames

3D on home video never took off. Sales are really bad, but if there is a resurgence, then they can always add it later. Considering all your hundreds of negative posts on 3D, this sounds like your just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Ha! The very things I criticized are now the standard mantra among the 3-D fans. Think about it. Everybody wants:

• Live action 2 camera native shots
• No more "parallax" issues with deep focus (Good stuff like Mad Max)
• Ending conversion games
• Some live action movies versus cartoons
• An end to the "3-D premium pricing" con
• Brick and mortar stored ending false scarcity of 2-D stuff to push 3-D
• 3-D available on disc for all films released in 3-D in theaters
• All sets able to display 3-D content (technically possible if you're not just trying to sell TV's...remember, Vizio dropped out)

Remember, an organized protests of my posts got me sidelined for a full year. Look at their forum now - they all say the same thing I did, after demanding that I shut up.


Really, do you think I was "complaining for the sake of complaining" about that stuff? I make no claims about being a Nostradamus, but this stuff came to pass after the writing was already on the wall.

Originally Posted by bruceames

The $400.00 Samsung player is cheap for launch player, how could you complain about that?

The value isn't there. The changes in circuitry and lenses is minimal between 2k and 4k, so it's a cash grab pure and simple. The problem is not the hardware; it's R&D, and inventory management. Manufacturers usually amortize that cost over time, but not in this case. They're trying to recoup their initial expenses at a much faster rate than normal, which implies that they don't have tremendous confidence in the format.


I share their lack of confidence, when companies like Sony and Oppo haven't release players, and Disney and others are looking at different distribution models. Too many big guys, dragging their feet. When rebranders like Marantz and others aren't buying someone else's product, I stand by.


Something doesn't smell right. This is taking too long. "Voting with dollars" is what the user base tried with 3-D, and look how that turned out. It failed, at least five years ago.

Originally Posted by bruceames

Instead of sitting on the sidelines complaining about it, how about showing a little support? Buy a few UHD combo discs just for the hell of it. When you finally get set up, I think you'll find out that the grass is much greener on this side. And very few owners complaining about it too.

A little support? I have a 79" UHD set, a Marantz pre-pro setup, Atmos and DTS-X, four subwoofers in the main theater, and the top-of-the-line Sony player from two years ago. Despite all that, I still can't see Star Wars Episode 7 on my rig.


After the Format Wars, and buying a new Kuro five months before 3-D came out, and buying a 79" TV just before HDR was announced, I'm a bit reticent about my money "showing a little support". I'd like to see a little support from the industry, and watching Atmos and DTS-X drying up doesn't really inspire confidence in making sure I'll be keeping up with current events.


I'll sit back and take in current events.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by KRW1

There's no comparison between 4k/UHD and 3D. Like it or not, 3D had a lot of resistance, mainly due to the over the top claims made when it was first launched. I've not seen anyone resistant to the idea of a better and more cinematic format.

3-D required a new television, special glasses, a new player, and a new receiver - at the height of a financial recession. That's what killed it in the home theater market.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

There is a market?

Yeah, but you have to take a serious ass-whoopin to be part of it.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by David M

It's probably an improvement on the early HD DVD vs BD days, though!

Barely. The visuals are stronger, but God knows what future "obsolescence" we're going to see. I got past the HDMI 2.2 nonsense, I think.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Why? If you have no interest in 4K?

Watching comparative trends is a good thing.


I know. I got my Kuro in July, 2009, and in the period between July and December, 17,000,000 2-D sets were sold.


The first mention of 3-D, as we know it, was in late December, 2009.


Televisions never recovered from that massive dumping. Many companies have disappeared, or gone through massive cutbacks.

[Blu-Dog]

[QUOTE=bruceames;12260344]Samsung has stated a few times that sales of their UHD BD player have exceeded their expectations.


They didn't quantify their expectations, whatever they are, and didn't introduce that player as HDR. So there's 400 bones, shot to hell.


I'll wait.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Canada

When Blu-ray first came out the players were about $ 1000. So $ 400 for a 4K UHD player is a steal.

My Sony cost $500. I'm glad I didn't get the $1000 model (actually more like ($1200) because both of them had limitations requiring replacement in two years.


I have four televisions in use. Think of the cost.


The last three players I've bought were in the $100 range.