New Captain Scarlet: The Complete Series - Sep 4, 2017

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by derek_1999

I think they tried to just speed up the pace and create a more generic title sequence. It's not bad - just, as others have said, I don't really see the point... they should have just kept the originals.

I was working at Pinewood (at another CG studio) when they were making this series, and it was (by all accounts) a bit up and down, as it was initially a co-production between a couple of CG houses and then ended up being rebuilt under the hand of Ron Thornton (who did the Babylon 5 VFX).

Right, interesting. And of course, it was then released during a Saturday morning TV show, split into 2 parts if I recall, which angered Gerry Anderson.

Regarding the titles, is it possible the text wasn't rendered in HD, so they needed to redo them anyway? And did they need to rebuild every episode in HD from the original files, or was it already finished in HD, then just shown in SD at the time?

[Geoff D]

I highly doubt that it was freshly re-rendered just for a budget Blu-ray release so it being HD from the off sounds more plausible, when derek says "rebuilt" I think he means that Ron Thornton did that at the time of production, he came in and steadied the ship. Dunno.

[Indiana Jones]

Got my copy on Thursday and have watched the first five episodes and perhaps it's because I have almost no memory of the show but the new intro doesn't seem that bad but only watched it on the first episode have skipped it on the rest, the lack of 5.1 is disappointing but the lossless stereo mix sounds great and the picture quality is certainly a step up.

[derek_1999]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Right, interesting. And of course, it was then released during a Saturday morning TV show, split into 2 parts if I recall, which angered Gerry Anderson.

Regarding the titles, is it possible the text wasn't rendered in HD, so they needed to redo them anyway? And did they need to rebuild every episode in HD from the original files, or was it already finished in HD, then just shown in SD at the time?

As far as I remember, it was rendered in HD - probably 720P (as that was the acceptable res back then) and they ended up on a very tight delivery schedule, so that'll have helped timescales.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I highly doubt that it was freshly re-rendered just for a budget Blu-ray release so it being HD from the off sounds more plausible, when derek says "rebuilt" I think he means that Ron Thornton did that at the time of production, he came in and steadied the ship. Dunno.

Yes, spot on

I think it was originally a partnership with Double Negative - and that fell apart as they'd spent 18 months not delivering an episode and without a pipeline (well, that was the rumour - it could all be conjecture or something else - strange politics are often at work in big productions!)... so Ron was parachuted in from the States and built a Lightwave studio (with a similar blueprint to the one Foundation Imaging had for Roughnecks).

[Geoff D]

Oh, I've been meaning to pick up Roughnecks on DVD for aaaaaaages.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I highly doubt that it was freshly re-rendered just for a budget Blu-ray release so it being HD from the off sounds more plausible, when derek says "rebuilt" I think he means that Ron Thornton did that at the time of production, he came in and steadied the ship. Dunno.

I figured the HD animation files already existed, but I wasn't sure if the final episodes were actually finished in HD. I thought they might have to go back and access the already rendered HD animation files to rebuild the episodes and add HD titles etc. Obviously not though.

[derek_1999]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I figured the HD animation files already existed, but I wasn't sure if the final episodes were actually finished in HD. I thought they might have to go back and access the already rendered HD animation files to rebuild the episodes and add HD titles etc. Obviously not though.

The series was rendered in passes (like layers in Photoshop), so they'd need those files in order to rebuild anything.

I suspect things like VFX (smoke or explosions etc) were rendered in SD and then up-rezzed to HD when the final comps (composite shots) were created. From this, you'd then output the final 'master' shot.

Rendering in passes is the best way, as it separates all the elements and means (if there's a render error or a fix required) that you only re-render that one element, rather than the whole shot (saving time).

I doubt that any of this comp shot data will exist now (unless it was archived properly) - and it's really doubtful that the full CGI pipeline exists (alongside all the original assets), as, when places close up shop, the amount of storage and infrastructure required to replicate the pipeline (ie just to be able to go back in and re-render something) would be prohibitively expensive (ie it would have needed to be archived in a way that would have meant it could be re-built later) & most producers won't pay for this.

You wouldn't' believe how much data and how complex a CGI production (end to end) pipeline can be... I'd suspect all that exists are the individual master shots for each episode alongside edits and sound mixes (the easiest things to archive).

[Geoff D]

And that's also why, as time marches on, that movies getting rebuilt in 4K with new 4K re-renders for VFX are going to be as rare as hen's teeth. Yes, I know Toy Story got a re-render for HD, before someone chimes in with that info, but Pixar are good like that, they've likely left those doors open on all their feature work. But the average big budget live-action movie with VFX spread across a multitude of different vendors, I dunno about that. Hell, even the almighty ILM couldn't re-render the VFX for Phantom Menace 3D because they don't run those packages any more.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And that's also why, as time marches on, that movies getting rebuilt in 4K with new 4K re-renders for VFX are going to be as rare as hen's teeth. Yes, I know Toy Story got a re-render for HD, before someone chimes in with that info, but Pixar are good like that, they've likely left those doors open on all their feature work. But the average big budget live-action movie with VFX spread across a multitude of different vendors, I dunno about that. Hell, even the almighty ILM couldn't re-render the VFX for Phantom Menace 3D because they don't run those packages any more.

Haha, as I was reading your post I was getting ready to reply and was going to mention TPM, before seeing you brought it up in your last sentence. Yes, most of these slightly older films will be impossible to redo in genuine 4K completely. Was there ever any word on the LOTR trilogy, curiously? Will the VFX for that remain in 2K or is there a chance of rerendering that?

Thing is, even if you do rerender a lot of these older VFX elements at higher resolutions, if the texture work wasn't done at a high res to start with, it's always going to look slightly soft and blurry. The main difference would be edge definition on objects and creatures etc appearing sharper, but then, the compositing will have taken that into account at the time, so it would probably also have to be tweaked to get the full benefits of the higher res rendered elements.

It's a bloody expensive and time consuming nightmare, that's for sure, and frankly I can't see it happening much, if at all. They'd be better treating some films as proper special edition versions, and redoing the effects properly, like say, for a 4K Jurassic Park rerelease. But then that in itself opens up a whole new can of worms. What's that? Did someone say Star Wars: Special Edition?

[Indiana Jones]

Almost finished the second disc now and instead of creating new intros their time would have been better spent fixing incorrect/missing labels and rendering errors but still overall it's been an enjoyable watch.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

Haha, as I was reading your post I was getting ready to reply and was going to mention TPM, before seeing you brought it up in your last sentence. Yes, most of these slightly older films will be impossible to redo in genuine 4K completely. Was there ever any word on the LOTR trilogy, curiously? Will the VFX for that remain in 2K or is there a chance of rerendering that?

No idea, you'd have to speak to WETA. But my magic 8 ball says: FORGET ABOUT IT (seriously, that's what it says).

[Sylvester1]

While unwanted revised credits is slightly annoying the lack of 5.1 sound is why I'm waiting for the sales.
It was 5.1 on the dvd and until the other day it was 5.1 on the Network site listing and on one of the featurettes a spokesman rubs salt into the wound by saying the show has been completed with 5.1 sound.

[shadokp]

A few observations - I have been waiting to see this series in HD since the beginning and so I am very happy. I tried twice to play this on my U.S. Blur-ray player with no luck and then switched to my region free and that worked fine. I may try the other player again as it is listed as A,B,C.

I am not really happy with the new titles, mostly because of the narration. Is the narration on every episode? Still the edit of scenes is okay but could be better. Wished they included the original titles - I have to imagine the original titles were rendered in HD because this show aired in America on an HD satellite station within a year after the debut I believe.

Despite the animation being inferior for the first two episodes, I found elements to be superior to even TB Are Go of today. I always thought the vehicle animation was superb. The motion capture really makes the animation stand out from most other animation we see on TV.

[oddbox83]

1080i50 might be the issue you're having rather than region coding.

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by shadokp

A few observations - I have been waiting to see this series in HD since the beginning and so I am very happy. I tried twice to play this on my U.S. Blur-ray player with no luck and then switched to my region free and that worked fine. I may try the other player again as it is listed as A,B,C.

I am not really happy with the new titles, mostly because of the narration. Is the narration on every episode? Still the edit of scenes is okay but could be better. Wished they included the original titles - I have to imagine the original titles were rendered in HD because this show aired in America on an HD satellite station within a year after the debut I believe.

Despite the animation being inferior for the first two episodes, I found elements to be superior to even TB Are Go of today. I always thought the vehicle animation was superb. The motion capture really makes the animation stand out from most other animation we see on TV.

Yes every episode has the new intro and end credits but they have included the originals as extras on Disc 3 and to be honest I prefer the new ones.

[Superman43]

i have ordered this release unfortunately i've got to wait untill next week to get it as i found out when i phoned up the customer enquiries line when i placed the order they had run out of stock of it

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Network said 5.1 yesterday. I've bloody sold the DVD set now as well, confident Network wouldn't screw this up.

People should know by now never to do that. There's plenty of ways they can screw up releases. Always hold onto your old releases until you're confident the new release isn't screwed up somehow.

[bradenklune]

Network has a prebuy link for Volume One (of four) of the ORIGINAL Captain Scarlet on blu. 10GBP plus shipping. Release date: November 27.

[hagios]

Originally Posted by bradenklune

Network has a prebuy link for Volume One (of four) of the ORIGINAL Captain Scarlet on blu. 10GBP plus shipping. Release date: November 27.

Ordered today!

[Indiana Jones]

Originally Posted by bradenklune

Network has a prebuy link for Volume One (of four) of the ORIGINAL Captain Scarlet on blu. 10GBP plus shipping. Release date: November 27.

November 20th according to their pre-buy page.