Panasonic DP-UB9000 4K UHD Player

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What 2017 video? I'm talking about comparing the UB900 and the 203 with my very own eyes when it comes to the chroma and I didn't need Vincent or anyone else to tell me that because I've owned a Panny since April 2016, I know what it does and even first noted some things re: the upscaling that HDTVtest then "revealed" in their player review. And what do gamma curves have to do with anything I was talking about? If you mean those new SDR modes then I've tried them and while I'm happy that the HDR-impaired amongst us now have more options they were a waste of time for me. [edit] or did you mean to quote dlb99?

I only added your observation about chroma sharpening as a different perspective counter to that video, It was response to dlb99.

[Geoff D]

Oh, that was a follow-on from the first point you were making, gotcha. Still confoosed me though.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But isn't the tone mapper simply something that you set to X level of nits, so that it displays the content up to that level and then maps the rest down? It doesn't sound like any kind of "dynamic" system to me, more like a cut-off that compresses the highlights down above the level you set so any kind of dynamic data doesn't enter into it.

Each TV company does tone-mapping differently. Crudely these are the default approaches:

*) Sony (by default) tends to hard clip above the peak brightness capability of the TV. This is fine for high brightness ZD9, but less appropriate for their OLEDs. Yes, there are options to tweak this, I am just speaking generally.

*) LG (by default) wants to retain as much peak highlight details (even up to 4,000nits) at the expense of overall brightness (sometimes). There is a dynamic tone-mapping option available in the 2017 models which is quite nice and solves some of these too dark issues.

*) Panasonic tends to be in the middle, less clipping than Sony, but not as dark as LG. I am not sure whether Panasonic reads the signal meta-data, or ignores it completely and does dynamic analysis. I suspect a bit of both. Either way the Panasonic OLED style tone-mapping is generally well-regarded.

These new 2018 Panasonic players will provide owners of Sony, LG and everyone else the option to use Panasonic tone-mapping if they so choose. Just enable "HDR Optimizer" mode and set a peak brightness in the player that matches your TV. If your TV already has excellent tone-mapping then don't enable the feature, however if you have a 2016 LG OLED TV with it's poor tone-mapping (way too dark) then the Panasonic in player tone-mapper will be very useful.

Furthermore, it may be possible that the new Panasonic players may be able to read the Dolby Vision or HDR10+ meta-data to emit an optimized (for your TV) HDR10 signal (especially useful if your TV does not support Dolby Vision and/or HDR10+).

For example lets say you own a Panasonic OLED (no Dolby Vision), in the Panasonic player you enter in 1,000nits as your max luminance. You then play a Dolby Vision 4,000nits disk (but you don't have a Dolby Vision TV). The player could read the meta-data to produce an 1,000nits tone-mapped HDR10 signal for your OLED. All the meta-data processing could be done in the player in regards to mapping the HDR signal to an appropriate luminance. This would be akin to processing Dolby TrueHD audio in the player and emitting lossless PCM. The above example could also apply to HDR10+ meta-data processing.

Now, I don't know if the Panasonic tone-mapping will read the DV/HDR10+ meta-data in the player as I described above, but I sure hope it will. I can't think of any reason why the HDR Optimizer would not read dynamic meta-data when tone-mapping if it was available on-disk. If they did it would be a game changer especially for TVs that don't support DV and HDR10+.

Just musing. Don't be angry at me if Panasonic does not do as I describe above. We need to wait and see.

[d514]

Originally Posted by dlb99

Some OPPO 203/205 quirks:

- The Panasonics have streaming apps, the Oppo have none.


Some things that OPPO does better:

- Proper region-free modifications. Panasonics are Blu-ray region-locked with no good mod.

- 24fps DVD mode

The fact that the Oppo has no streaming apps is a feature! Haven't you read the Oppo thread?

I'm pretty sure I've played DVDs on my UB700 in 24fps mode...

Both players have region-free options. Neither Panasonic nor Oppo have anything to do with those mods.

[LordoftheRings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lv-...ature=youtu.be

[Robert Zohn]

UB900 on close out sale for $399; shares the exact same HCX video processor that the November 2018 UB9000 will employ.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lv-...ature=youtu.be

Gee whiz, this fellow is out of his comfort zone. He's a video calibrator, not a audio buff.

Judging from its launch price of £999 in Autumn, the Panasonic UB9000 is designed to directly challenge the OPPO 205.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

UB900 on close out sale for $399; shares the exact same HCX video processor that the November 2018 UB9000 will employ.

Do you foresee a future time where the higher models are unavailable. Autumn is a long time off and you now say November?

[Robert Zohn]

At the current rate of sale we'll be sold out of UB900s by end of April. Not sure what's in stock at Panasonic NA

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

UB900 on close out sale for $399; shares the exact same HCX video processor that the November 2018 UB9000 will employ.

Incorrect.

The HCX processor in the 2018 models is effectively the HCX3 processor, two generations ahead of the processor in the 900.

The HCX processor in the 2018 models is the same as in the 2018 Panasonic OLEDs which is a generation ahead of the HCX2 processor in last years OLEDs.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by d514

I'm pretty sure I've played DVDs on my UB700 in 24fps mode...

Ah yes apologies, you are correct, my bad.

Both players have region-free options. Neither Panasonic nor Oppo have anything to do with those mods.

Last I checked there is no reliable hardware modification for Blu-ray region free. DVD region free is fine, but Blu-ray region free is a no-go on Panasonics (last I checked).

Which Panasonic mod do you suggest for Blu-ray region free? Not the hacked firmware mod? I will not use that firmware since it can potentially brick your device.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Gee whiz, this fellow is out of his comfort zone. He's a video calibrator, not a audio buff.

He's in accordance to one of my previous posts: Panasonic 9000 vs Oppo 205.
There is nothing wrong with that as the new Panasonic player sports a pair of analog XLR balanced stereo output jacks, with a very well build internal design, a substantial weight, Dolby Vision and the latest advanced HDR10+ video algorithms from their latest improved Hollywood video chip, the HCX (Hollywood Cinema Xperience) video processor. It looks classy too on the outside and less bulky than the 205, more in line with the 203 for external looks.

It's all in the perspective of the viewer/reviewer. I like Vincent, he's one of the bests.

⛾ https://news.panasonic.co.uk/panason...-technologies/

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dlb99

Just musing. Don't be angry at me if Panasonic does not do as I describe above. We need to wait and see.

That's all I'm saying bruv, there's a lot of speculation and not enough information so I wouldn't bank on Panny's new mapping mode doing all of that just yet.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's all I'm saying bruv, there's a lot of speculation and not enough information so I wouldn't bank on Panny's new mapping mode doing all of that just yet.

Agreed.

But there is nothing stopping Panasonic (or OPPO) down the road from reading the DV/HDR10+ dynamic meta-data inside the player and emitting a tone-mapped HDR10 video stream. Technically it is possible.

If you and I can dream it up, so can Panasonic & OPPO engineers.

We shall see. Maybe if Panasonic and/or OPPO folks are reading this thread they can see the possibilities of player-based tone-mapping and using dynamic meta-data (if available).

[LordoftheRings]

...And each 4K TV and front projector display has to cooperate.
And the software too, the 4K BR disc encoding and transfers.
And the 4K streaming...Dolby Vision, HDR. ...For the Panasonic. The Oppo 205 is through its HDMI input.
And, the USB ports support and performance.

[moviemike4]

Panasonic should come up with there on ideas , rather copy off oppo .

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by moviemike4

Panasonic should come up with there on ideas , rather copy off oppo .

Which ideas are Panasonic copying? Please state for the record.
Which ideas are copyrighted to OPPO that Panasonic is illegally stealing?

For example, does the OPPO have in-player HDR tone-mapping like these Panasonics?

Panasonic is innovating with their 2018 players. OPPO absolutely innovates (and has done so for years). Best thing for us is that each company takes the best ideas of the other brand and incorporates it into their product. Then we all win.

For example, I'd love for the 9000 to support SACD (like OPPO), but initial reports are not looking good in that regards.

For example, I'd love for the OPPOs to have their own tone-mapping algorithm that users could use if their TV has crappy tone-mapping.

The look of the 9000 is a clone of the OPPO; which is fine in my book, the OPPO is a great looking machine (and so is this new Panasonic). But a black rectangular steel box is not just something that is unique to OPPO.

Here is a black rectangular Pioneer that looks a bit like both the OPPO and Panasonic:

[d514]

Originally Posted by dlb99

Which Panasonic mod do you suggest for Blu-ray region free? Not the hacked firmware mod? I will not use that firmware since it can potentially brick your device.

Yes, I meant that firmware. Of course every firmware update can potentially brick your device. I've never had any problems with it for many years.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by dlb99

Which ideas are Panasonic copying? Please state for the record.
Which ideas are copyrighted to OPPO that Panasonic is illegally stealing?

For example, does the OPPO have in-player HDR tone-mapping like these Panasonics?

Panasonic is innovating with their 2018 players. OPPO absolutely innovates (and has done so for years). Best thing for us is that each company takes the best ideas of the other brand and incorporates it into their product. Then we all win.

For example, I'd love for the 9000 to support SACD (like OPPO), but initial reports are not looking good in that regards.

For example, I'd love for the OPPOs to have their own tone-mapping algorithm that users could use if their TV has crappy tone-mapping.

The look of the 9000 is a clone of the OPPO; which is fine in my book, the OPPO is a great looking machine (and so is this new Panasonic). But a black rectangular steel box is not just something that is unique to OPPO.

Here is a black rectangular Pioneer that looks a bit like both the OPPO and Panasonic:

I wonder if Pioneer will release a UHD player.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

JoeDeM states...

I wonder if Pioneer will release a UHD player.

I wonder if the Panasonic UB820 will also command a high price point. Consistent with very high Premium DV Disc Players.