120hz explained - Page 3 - Blu-ray Forum

Chevypower · 03-27-2008, 03:59 PM

This is my understanding. 120Hz is NOT designed for 24p, but for 60i (30fps interlaced) - doubling the refresh rate. It just so happens that 24 does go in to 120, but that's not where the benefit is. In PAL countries, they sell TVs with 100Hz (which doubles the refresh of 50i) Obviously some of those TVs also display 24p, and 24 does not go in to 100, so there is no benefit to 24p, likewise I think 120Hz is not designed to benefit 24p signals.

Here is Sony XBR 52 inch in Aus (with Motionflow 100Hz)
http://www.sony.com.au/homecinema/ca...tegoryId=22400

NOW, the only way 120Hz will benefit 24p, is what is called 5:5 pulldown. But not all TVs with 120Hz and 24p, will perform this 5:5 pulldown. The 120Hz in most cases, is talking about 60i to 120Hz.

dillycheeze · 03-27-2008, 04:24 PM

to all those with a sony xbr4/5 or 3000 series set - talking about how things can look unnatural....you do know that the cinemotion setting is another variable in the motion equation right? - auto1 and auto2....when i first got my tv i wanted to show everyone the full effect of the motion capabilities of the tv so i had it on auto1/high...which is overkill..can you imagine watching cloverfield with that setting LOL...so after having the tv for a few months, i now use auto2/high for both BDs and TV....auto1 can look terrible on BDs...sometimes it looks fine (mostly with standard, but high creates problems - almost ripping the image apart)....but to my eyes there was always a slight loss of detail using auto1......i think auto2/high is incredible....it gives you that slight bit of added motion for butter smooth action, but keeps all the details....people come over and are amazed....just thought i would throw that out there...so theres really 5 motion settings on these tvs, not 3

ChiefRedStripe · 05-04-2008, 10:04 PM

Just turn the motion enhancment off and you will not see any of that unnatural movement. Just because its 120hz doesnt mean you have to see that odd looking movement.

smv25 · 05-12-2008, 09:30 PM

If you turn motion enhancement off, then you're left with the flickering problem.

mad_vl · 05-14-2008, 11:55 AM

Thank you very much shockstar1138 for your time to write this
guide up, it makes sense. I haven't had a look at it yet. I'll try
this tomorrow. I hope it does what I expected. Thanks

Cheers, Anto

TimmothyMcPiddles · 05-16-2008, 05:49 PM

Has anyone noticed that motion blur is decreased when you increase the brightness of your picture? Is this just me or is it a legitimate way to minimally reduce blurring?

U4K61 · 05-24-2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbravo

I still don't understand why you want 1080p/24. Why not 1080p/60? I assume the 24/60 are fps.

For example, video games run at 60fps (hopefully). They look better than something that runs at 30fps.

Please explain why I would want less frames per second. And "because that's how it is encoded" is not what I'm looking for, because my next question would be : why not shoot/encode it at more frames per second?

We can and will be able to do 24/30/60fps when all movie theaters go digital. 120Hz really is a magic number as someone else said. For once we will have something that is both forward and backwards compatable without compromising PQ.

U4K61 · 05-27-2008, 03:56 PM

Nice heads up on motion enhancers.

While I laud 5x24 120Hz in removing 1080p/24 judder, I am not a fan of creating new frames (interpolation) - information that was not part of the origional signal. Past experience with enhancements for a better picture produced the wrong color temperature, increased brightness at the expense of color saturation, sharpness controls that just added video noise, and the infamous DNR, all which reduced PQ rather then improve it. I will stick to 24fps 5:5 120Hz.

toocheezy · 05-28-2008, 02:54 PM

I can see that everybody has their own opinion. As for me I used to watch my BDs with Motionflow set to low! A friend of mine came to my house and turn set it to high and I now I cant watch my BDs any other way!! As far as the extra frame stuff....well its not too bad. You can see the difference in older movies. And it also varies from different studios. All Disney movies look amazing and you can barely see it. But other movies sometimes can be really terrible. But I have to say that Narnia is the best movie PQ wise! Set that bad boy to high and prepare to be amazed!! There is absolutely no extra fame crap in the entire movie.

I think studios are starting to take in account that people are watching the BDs like that so there are putting out a better quality BD now!!If you havent noticed that alot of the BD PQ ratings are getting better and better with each BD released. Its all about experience. Soon all BD will be nearly perfect!!

ZMAN8424 · 05-28-2008, 02:58 PM

where do you turn the 120hz feature on ???? I know dumb question but i really dont know.... is it in the ps3 settings or the tv settings i have a samsung 56" dlp 120hz

nhaase · 05-28-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZMAN8424

where do you turn the 120hz feature on ???? I know dumb question but i really dont know.... is it in the ps3 settings or the tv settings i have a samsung 56" dlp 120hz

On your PS3 turn the BD 24Hz output to either "Automatic" or "On." On your TV it should automatically accept the signal, but the video settings menu may have other options if the TV can do further processing of the signal.

aramis109 · 05-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smv25

If you turn motion enhancement off, then you're left with the flickering problem.

Not true.

Motion enhancement does interpolation- creating a more smooth-looking (and sometimes vomit-inducing) motion. In fast motion it actually creates artifacts because it can't keep up.

120hz reduces the flickering/judder that you're seeing as it's an even division of 24fps.

savage1984 · 05-28-2008, 03:33 PM

Great job Sockstar! When are we gonna get a 120hz plasma?!

Ectoplasm · 05-31-2008, 04:59 PM

Well guys, I'm now seeing 240hz TVs advertised in Korea.

TimmothyMcPiddles · 06-04-2008, 03:54 PM

It seems that your home theatre set up includes your girlfriend...?
That seems kinda screwed up. Haha.

SkillzthatKillz · 06-04-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage1984

Great job Sockstar! When are we gonna get a 120hz plasma?!

check this link out

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....A%3E1900-01-01

The Lion King · 06-04-2008, 04:28 PM

Nice explanation. Still don't think 120hz is all that much of an improvement over 100hz. I guess 100hz is all I'd ever need or want, really.

stockstar1138 · 06-04-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lion King

Nice explanation. Still don't think 120hz is all that much of an improvement over 100hz. I guess 100hz is all I'd ever need or want, really.

in america we don't have 100hz tvs. as everything is broadcast in 60hz over here, so a 100hz HDTV really wouldn't work.

i think the 120hz is made for americans more than anybody else.

stockstar1138 · 06-04-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savage1984

Great job Sockstar! When are we gonna get a 120hz plasma?!

Plasma? okay, whatever buy that old 1990s technology.

How about a nice 52 inch, 1080p/120hz OLED in a year or two.

SkillzthatKillz · 06-04-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

Plasma? okay, whatever buy that old 1990s technology.

How about a nice 52 inch, 1080p/120hz OLED in a year or two.

i dont know if OLED will be affordable in a year or two. eventually it will be cheaper to make than LCD/Plasma but not yet

05-16-2008, 05:49 PM	#46
TimmothyMcPiddles Member Member since:May 2008	Motion Blur Has anyone noticed that motion blur is decreased when you increase the brightness of your picture? Is this just me or is it a legitimate way to minimally reduce blurring?

05-27-2008, 03:56 PM	#48
U4K61 Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Connecticut Blu-ray collection:40 Blu-ray reviews:4	Nice heads up on motion enhancers. While I laud 5x24 120Hz in removing 1080p/24 judder, I am not a fan of creating new frames (interpolation) - information that was not part of the origional signal. Past experience with enhancements for a better picture produced the wrong color temperature, increased brightness at the expense of color saturation, sharpness controls that just added video noise, and the infamous DNR, all which reduced PQ rather then improve it. I will stick to 24fps 5:5 120Hz. Last edited by U4K61; 08-20-2008 at 04:30 PM.

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03-27-2008, 03:59 PM	#41
Chevypower Special Member Member since:Feb 2008	This is my understanding. 120Hz is NOT designed for 24p, but for 60i (30fps interlaced) - doubling the refresh rate. It just so happens that 24 does go in to 120, but that's not where the benefit is. In PAL countries, they sell TVs with 100Hz (which doubles the refresh of 50i) Obviously some of those TVs also display 24p, and 24 does not go in to 100, so there is no benefit to 24p, likewise I think 120Hz is not designed to benefit 24p signals. Here is Sony XBR 52 inch in Aus (with Motionflow 100Hz) http://www.sony.com.au/homecinema/ca...tegoryId=22400 NOW, the only way 120Hz will benefit 24p, is what is called 5:5 pulldown. But not all TVs with 120Hz and 24p, will perform this 5:5 pulldown. The 120Hz in most cases, is talking about 60i to 120Hz.

03-27-2008, 04:24 PM	#42
dillycheeze Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:1	to all those with a sony xbr4/5 or 3000 series set - talking about how things can look unnatural....you do know that the cinemotion setting is another variable in the motion equation right? - auto1 and auto2....when i first got my tv i wanted to show everyone the full effect of the motion capabilities of the tv so i had it on auto1/high...which is overkill..can you imagine watching cloverfield with that setting LOL...so after having the tv for a few months, i now use auto2/high for both BDs and TV....auto1 can look terrible on BDs...sometimes it looks fine (mostly with standard, but high creates problems - almost ripping the image apart)....but to my eyes there was always a slight loss of detail using auto1......i think auto2/high is incredible....it gives you that slight bit of added motion for butter smooth action, but keeps all the details....people come over and are amazed....just thought i would throw that out there...so theres really 5 motion settings on these tvs, not 3

05-04-2008, 10:04 PM	#43
ChiefRedStripe Active Member Member since:Dec 2007 Home Theater Gallery:1 Blu-ray collection:370 Trading Score:18	Just turn the motion enhancment off and you will not see any of that unnatural movement. Just because its 120hz doesnt mean you have to see that odd looking movement.

05-12-2008, 09:30 PM	#44
smv25 Member Member since:Mar 2008	If you turn motion enhancement off, then you're left with the flickering problem.

05-14-2008, 11:55 AM	#45
mad_vl Junior Member Member since:Feb 2008 Home Theater Gallery:4 Blu-ray collection:5	Thank you very much shockstar1138 for your time to write this guide up, it makes sense. I haven't had a look at it yet. I'll try this tomorrow. I hope it does what I expected. Thanks Cheers, Anto

05-28-2008, 02:54 PM	#49
toocheezy Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Honolulu, HI Blu-ray collection:138 Blu-ray reviews:12	I can see that everybody has their own opinion. As for me I used to watch my BDs with Motionflow set to low! A friend of mine came to my house and turn set it to high and I now I cant watch my BDs any other way!! As far as the extra frame stuff....well its not too bad. You can see the difference in older movies. And it also varies from different studios. All Disney movies look amazing and you can barely see it. But other movies sometimes can be really terrible. But I have to say that Narnia is the best movie PQ wise! Set that bad boy to high and prepare to be amazed!! There is absolutely no extra fame crap in the entire movie. I think studios are starting to take in account that people are watching the BDs like that so there are putting out a better quality BD now!!If you havent noticed that alot of the BD PQ ratings are getting better and better with each BD released. Its all about experience. Soon all BD will be nearly perfect!!

05-28-2008, 02:58 PM	#50
ZMAN8424 Junior Member Member since:May 2008 Location:South Bend, Indiana	where do you turn the 120hz feature on ???? I know dumb question but i really dont know.... is it in the ps3 settings or the tv settings i have a samsung 56" dlp 120hz

05-28-2008, 03:33 PM	#53
savage1984 Banned Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Los Angeles	Great job Sockstar! When are we gonna get a 120hz plasma?!

05-31-2008, 04:59 PM	#54
Ectoplasm Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray reviews:9 Trading Score:12	Well guys, I'm now seeing 240hz TVs advertised in Korea.

06-04-2008, 03:54 PM	#55
TimmothyMcPiddles Member Member since:May 2008	It seems that your home theatre set up includes your girlfriend...? That seems kinda screwed up. Haha.

06-04-2008, 04:28 PM	#57
The Lion King Special Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Somewhere you aren't. Blu-ray collection:48 Blu-ray reviews:20	Nice explanation. Still don't think 120hz is all that much of an improvement over 100hz. I guess 100hz is all I'd ever need or want, really.

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