Doctor Who: Series 13: Flux - Page 3 - Blu-ray Forum

chip75 · 12-08-2021, 09:39 PM

I've said for years that entertainment franchises are no different than sporting ones. Most fans stick with their teams during the bad runs hoping things will turn around, whether it's new players, managers or owners, there's always hope that they'll get a good season next year.

Of course there's also fans that seem oblivious to their team propping up the bottom of the table and that one player that manages an own goal every other game ...

It's not about H-Watching, it's hoping for light at the end of the tunnel, hoping that light isn't a white-hot fiery abyss.

BluBonnet · 12-08-2021, 09:58 PM

Alright, fair enough Chip.

ProfXtacy · 12-09-2021, 06:47 AM

The thing is I was very enthusiastic about Chinballs first series and Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor. I still don’t have a problem with Jodie, I don’t have a problem with the a lot of elements of the show. What I have a problem with is the lazy writing, the decision to retcon canon but to do so in such a way which is i) disrespectful to what has gone before and to the fans who have followed the series for decades, ii) contradicts key points and therefore makes no sense, ie. the police box shape of the TARDIS or the formation of UNIT, iii) plagiarizes other material such as an unknown Doctor or the destruction of the Time Lords, iv) and doesn’t actually tie up all the plot points strewn throughout the show.

Johnny come latelies who have only been following the series since the new show probably don’t see much of an issue but for those of us who have invested our time throughout our lives it’s not appreciated. I myself have been following since the end of Jon Pertwee’ s era, I’ve seen a lot of up’s and down’s and even during Tom Baker’s run which I think was the best era of the show there are stories which are not the greatest, but for Chinballs to have consistently produced such a steaming turd for the last couple of years - someone at the BBC should have told him to get his ass of the toilet a long time ago!

exidor · 12-09-2021, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfXtacy

I myself have been following since the end of Jon Pertwee’ s era, I’ve seen a lot of up’s and down’s and even during Tom Baker’s run which I think was the best era of the show there are stories which are not the greatest, but for Chinballs to have consistently produced such a steaming turd for the last couple of years - someone at the BBC should have told him to get his ass of the toilet a long time ago!

I came aboard slightly later, around about Ark in Space, and that's kind of how I felt about the JNT era. If it's any consolation, at least CC's run was shorter.

As far as the apocalyptic canon-shattering changes go, maybe the TARDIS favours a police box shape now because of something in the pre-Hartnell Doctor's past? And the original series already had the UNIT adventures taking place in a phased space time bubble somewhere between the 70s and the 80s. Who's to say when it really formed. As old fans of a show where the makers never really cared about continuity, we've had a lot of practice at making up our own canon.

BluBonnet · 12-09-2021, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exidor

As old fans of a show where the makers never really cared about continuity, we've had a lot of practice at making up our own canon.

The way I see it, if they don't seem to care much about continuity, why should I? I'm perfectly happy either way, they can follow or not follow any. So long as the shows are fun, it's all good to me.

And I've really enjoyed the last few years as much, if not more, than anything from the classic era. A lot of those episodes really haven't aged very well.

ProfXtacy · 12-09-2021, 09:54 AM

The UNiT stories were originally supposed to have been set in the 80’s and that was then contradicted by Mawdryn Undead in 1983, I think this is a problem in tieing down ‘current’ stories to specific dates.

The problem is that Chinballs contradicts things which should really be set in stone.

The TARDIS became stuck as a Police Box in London 1963, the FIRST Doctor specifically referenced this in the second episode.

UNIT was created after the incident with the Yeti in the Underground where COLONEL Lethbridge-Stewart was involved and then promoted to Brigadier to deal with the Cyber Invasion. According to Chinballs UNIT was formed in 1967 as a reaction to the WOTAN incident at the post office tower - wrong!

I don;t think canon should necessarily get in the way of a GOOD story, little hope of that under Chinballs watch but there are certain things which really should not be contradicted - or if you do, you better make damn sure that you have everything well plotted out and explained, sadly Chinballs has failed to do either.

I spoke to my sister today who is a casual viewer and asked what she thought of it and she said she thought it was rubbish, it made no sense and was impossible to follow, little wonder the viewing figures dropped faster and with greater numbers than lemmings jumping off a cliff. It’s a shame we can’t push Chinballs off a cliff.

I think JNT had his faults. His bizarre desire to have question marks on everything for one. I think he was probably too controlling at times and didn’t want to use established talent on the scripts (arguable whether that was a good thing or not). His casting of Doctors was actually very good, but the decision to put Colin in the final story of Peter’s last season and then make his character unpleasant was a bad move, as was Colin’s costume. I think his era started well, floundered in the middle and improved a lot at the end with the introduction of Andrew Cartmel. It would be interesting to see what would have been produced under his watch if the show had the support it has from the BBC now - far better than any turds Chinballs has pinched off I’m sure.

BluBonnet · 12-09-2021, 04:18 PM

One of the things I see a lot of on the Internet is unwarranted criticisms about the series not being like it was in the 70s and 80s which I think is very silly because so much has changed since then, and I think most showrunners know this and are doing a fine job of acknowledging the past awhile at the same time doing something that feels fresh and relevant.

Chibnall has done a terrific job in a lot of ways and done a really, really wonderful story with Flux, there are a few minor things that may be left to deal with at some future date and I'm sure we're all wondering ife she will ever want to do anything with the fob watch or not - I'm really happy that we don't have all of the answers right now because I love the whole tease and not knowing if we shall ever find out more about the Doctor's past.

My friends from elsewhere in the US who also watch the show were also very thrilled with everything that we got and I think most of us feel that it would have been even more exciting to have had as many as 7 episodes for this arc, but, oh well, you can't have everything, especially in the middle of a pandemic.

Chibnall and Jodie did a terrific job with Flux and I think it will definitely stand as one of the best series in the whole run of DW. I couldn't be happier to be getting the steelbook. It will be a genuine thrill just to hold it.

drterror666 · 12-09-2021, 07:57 PM

If the Flux Wave annihilated everything bar the Earth, that means the Moon bought it. Wouldn't this have been bad news for Earth?

BluBonnet · 12-09-2021, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drterror666

If the Flux Wave annihilated everything bar the Earth, that means the Moon bought it. Wouldn't this have been bad news for Earth?

I'm pretty sure the moon is still there... even in DW

exidor · 12-10-2021, 08:59 AM

If not, I'm sure another space dragon will be along soon to lay a new one.

ProfXtacy · 12-10-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exidor

If not, I'm sure another space dragon will be along soon to lay a new one.

Even that was better than anything Chinballs has ever come up with.

oddbox83 · 12-10-2021, 10:53 AM

The UNIT dating being so problematic isn't anything new like you say, but I think having these dates in the show pre-Web of Fear just muddies the waters. I think they could have streamlined it down, had the opening of UNIT happening post-Web and not had specific dates appearing on-screen, just a vague "60s", "70s", etc.

Some speculate it's messy because it's a hasty rewrite and it was supposed to be Jack/Torchwood and not Kate/UNIT. But that seems to contradict UNIT being mothballed earlier by Chibnal, which was perhaps a long-standing setup for this. Yet we do know the original series 13 was scuppered by COVID. So who knows...

[Show spoiler]

Now, was all this deep storytelling suitable for a general audience? Nah. It's a bit niche, and Doctor Who has always been at it's most popular when it appeals to a wide range of people, not just hard sci-fi nuts. Flux reminds me of the sort of stories the New Adventures books would tell in the 90s, being based on and continuing Doctor Who but told as hard sci-fi/fantasy novels with concepts like Death being characters.

AnnThrope · 12-10-2021, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darklighter108

I feel like people complaining about how nonsensical the finale was have forgotten that RTD resurrected the Master using a MAGIC POTION and then he had super powers, and that the Doctor was somehow able to rejuvenate himself with the power of humans thinking about him. And that Moffat had River "give her regenerations" to the Doctor and all it did was heal them, even though he was on his last regeneration it didn't add up to anything at all. And that Clara is supposedly still traveling around, not actually alive and without a heartbeat.

And in the original series, Romana was able to "try on" regenerations and seemingly regenerated for no apparant reason other than she felt like it.

The show has whatever rules the current showrunner says there are. Remember how pissed people where when that first photo of Matt Smith was shown. And when Capaldi was chosen "fans" were losing their minds that the doctor wasn't "hot" anymore. Heck, original series fans were mad at RTD for killing off all the timelords.

Romana was just larking about when she showed the Doctor all those other 'regenerations' (and he went along with the japes cos that was the daft kind of guy he was in his 'Douglas Phase'). They were just temporary visual projections (or something) - she'd already regenerated into the Lalla Ward/Princess Astra one.
And who knows why she regenerated. Maybe she'd fallen off the TARDIS Exercise Bike in the TARDIS Exercise Bike Room.
Tricky things them TARDIS Exercise Bikes.

Aclea · 12-10-2021, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnThrope

Tricky things them TARDIS Exercise Bikes.

The reputation of Peladon exercise bikes never really recovered.

BluBonnet · 12-10-2021, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oddbox83

[Show spoiler]

I love that expression, don't think I've heard it before. I guess it kind of fits.

[Show spoiler]

ProfXtacy · 12-10-2021, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnThrope

And who knows why she regenerated. Maybe she'd fallen off the TARDIS Exercise Bike in the TARDIS Exercise Bike Room.
Tricky things them TARDIS Exercise Bikes.

Or maybe it had something to do with that pesky Mary Tamm.

I don’t remember being pissed when I first saw Matt Smith, I remember being really impressed when I saw him interviewed and thinking yes, he will be an amazing Doctor - and he was.

darnall42 · 12-10-2021, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drterror666

If the Flux Wave annihilated everything bar the Earth, that means the Moon bought it. Wouldn't this have been bad news for Earth?

The moon is an egg though

BluBonnet · 12-10-2021, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darnall42

The moon is an egg though

Oh. I thought it was made of cheese

ProfXtacy · 12-10-2021, 09:35 PM

You thought Chris Chinballs was a good showrunner, so let’s just leave it at that.

BluBonnet · 12-10-2021, 10:44 PM

I think all the showrunners have had their strengths and weaknesses. As is normal in almost any industry.

12-09-2021, 09:54 AM	#46
ProfXtacy Banned Member since:Aug 2021	The UNiT stories were originally supposed to have been set in the 80’s and that was then contradicted by Mawdryn Undead in 1983, I think this is a problem in tieing down ‘current’ stories to specific dates. The problem is that Chinballs contradicts things which should really be set in stone. The TARDIS became stuck as a Police Box in London 1963, the FIRST Doctor specifically referenced this in the second episode. UNIT was created after the incident with the Yeti in the Underground where COLONEL Lethbridge-Stewart was involved and then promoted to Brigadier to deal with the Cyber Invasion. According to Chinballs UNIT was formed in 1967 as a reaction to the WOTAN incident at the post office tower - wrong! I don;t think canon should necessarily get in the way of a GOOD story, little hope of that under Chinballs watch but there are certain things which really should not be contradicted - or if you do, you better make damn sure that you have everything well plotted out and explained, sadly Chinballs has failed to do either. I spoke to my sister today who is a casual viewer and asked what she thought of it and she said she thought it was rubbish, it made no sense and was impossible to follow, little wonder the viewing figures dropped faster and with greater numbers than lemmings jumping off a cliff. It’s a shame we can’t push Chinballs off a cliff. I think JNT had his faults. His bizarre desire to have question marks on everything for one. I think he was probably too controlling at times and didn’t want to use established talent on the scripts (arguable whether that was a good thing or not). His casting of Doctors was actually very good, but the decision to put Colin in the final story of Peter’s last season and then make his character unpleasant was a bad move, as was Colin’s costume. I think his era started well, floundered in the middle and improved a lot at the end with the introduction of Andrew Cartmel. It would be interesting to see what would have been produced under his watch if the show had the support it has from the BBC now - far better than any turds Chinballs has pinched off I’m sure. Last edited by ProfXtacy; 12-09-2021 at 11:06 PM.

12-10-2021, 10:53 AM	#52
oddbox83 Blu-ray Champion Member since:Sep 2013 Location:UK	The UNIT dating being so problematic isn't anything new like you say, but I think having these dates in the show pre-Web of Fear just muddies the waters. I think they could have streamlined it down, had the opening of UNIT happening post-Web and not had specific dates appearing on-screen, just a vague "60s", "70s", etc. Some speculate it's messy because it's a hasty rewrite and it was supposed to be Jack/Torchwood and not Kate/UNIT. But that seems to contradict UNIT being mothballed earlier by Chibnal, which was perhaps a long-standing setup for this. Yet we do know the original series 13 was scuppered by COVID. So who knows... [Show spoiler] Now, was all this deep storytelling suitable for a general audience? Nah. It's a bit niche, and Doctor Who has always been at it's most popular when it appeals to a wide range of people, not just hard sci-fi nuts. Flux reminds me of the sort of stories the New Adventures books would tell in the 90s, being based on and continuing Doctor Who but told as hard sci-fi/fantasy novels with concepts like Death being characters. Last edited by oddbox83; 12-10-2021 at 11:04 AM.

12-08-2021, 09:39 PM	#41
chip75 Blu-ray Grand Duke Top contributor Member since:Oct 2010 Location:Wales 4K collection:304 Blu-ray collection:3099 DVD collection:1782 iTunes collection:229 Trading Score:9	I've said for years that entertainment franchises are no different than sporting ones. Most fans stick with their teams during the bad runs hoping things will turn around, whether it's new players, managers or owners, there's always hope that they'll get a good season next year. Of course there's also fans that seem oblivious to their team propping up the bottom of the table and that one player that manages an own goal every other game ... It's not about H-Watching, it's hoping for light at the end of the tunnel, hoping that light isn't a white-hot fiery abyss.

12-08-2021, 09:58 PM	#42
BluBonnet Blu-ray King Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Trading Score:1	Alright, fair enough Chip.

12-09-2021, 06:47 AM	#43
ProfXtacy Banned Member since:Aug 2021	The thing is I was very enthusiastic about Chinballs first series and Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor. I still don’t have a problem with Jodie, I don’t have a problem with the a lot of elements of the show. What I have a problem with is the lazy writing, the decision to retcon canon but to do so in such a way which is i) disrespectful to what has gone before and to the fans who have followed the series for decades, ii) contradicts key points and therefore makes no sense, ie. the police box shape of the TARDIS or the formation of UNIT, iii) plagiarizes other material such as an unknown Doctor or the destruction of the Time Lords, iv) and doesn’t actually tie up all the plot points strewn throughout the show. Johnny come latelies who have only been following the series since the new show probably don’t see much of an issue but for those of us who have invested our time throughout our lives it’s not appreciated. I myself have been following since the end of Jon Pertwee’ s era, I’ve seen a lot of up’s and down’s and even during Tom Baker’s run which I think was the best era of the show there are stories which are not the greatest, but for Chinballs to have consistently produced such a steaming turd for the last couple of years - someone at the BBC should have told him to get his ass of the toilet a long time ago!

12-09-2021, 04:18 PM	#47
BluBonnet Blu-ray King Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Trading Score:1	One of the things I see a lot of on the Internet is unwarranted criticisms about the series not being like it was in the 70s and 80s which I think is very silly because so much has changed since then, and I think most showrunners know this and are doing a fine job of acknowledging the past awhile at the same time doing something that feels fresh and relevant. Chibnall has done a terrific job in a lot of ways and done a really, really wonderful story with Flux, there are a few minor things that may be left to deal with at some future date and I'm sure we're all wondering ife she will ever want to do anything with the fob watch or not - I'm really happy that we don't have all of the answers right now because I love the whole tease and not knowing if we shall ever find out more about the Doctor's past. My friends from elsewhere in the US who also watch the show were also very thrilled with everything that we got and I think most of us feel that it would have been even more exciting to have had as many as 7 episodes for this arc, but, oh well, you can't have everything, especially in the middle of a pandemic. Chibnall and Jodie did a terrific job with Flux and I think it will definitely stand as one of the best series in the whole run of DW. I couldn't be happier to be getting the steelbook. It will be a genuine thrill just to hold it.

12-09-2021, 07:57 PM	#48
drterror666 Special Member Member since:Oct 2014 Location:Bristol, UK 4K collection:1 Blu-ray collection:229 DVD collection:45	If the Flux Wave annihilated everything bar the Earth, that means the Moon bought it. Wouldn't this have been bad news for Earth?

12-10-2021, 08:59 AM	#50
exidor Active Member Member since:Jan 2020 Location:UK 4K collection:19 Blu-ray collection:1445 DVD collection:686	If not, I'm sure another space dragon will be along soon to lay a new one.

12-10-2021, 09:35 PM	#59
ProfXtacy Banned Member since:Aug 2021	You thought Chris Chinballs was a good showrunner, so let’s just leave it at that.

12-10-2021, 10:44 PM	#60
BluBonnet Blu-ray King Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Trading Score:1	I think all the showrunners have had their strengths and weaknesses. As is normal in almost any industry.

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals