Justice League Season One - 19.08.08

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Beast

I only bought them the first time because I got it for a steal and there was no other option. This time I'm choosing to not give WB my money for an inferior product. Especially when we were told if they ever double-dipped on the season, we'd get the intended and preferred format. Warner Brothers failed to deliver, and I don't see why I should reward them for it. My DVD's are fine and they upconvert just fine as well.

Lamest answer ever. Congratulations. I'm gung-ho about the proper presentation of the series in it's intended aspect ratio. You know, the one that the creator intended. Why should I reward WB for giving me an inferior product. I wouldn't leave a generous tip for a mediocre meal. Maybe you like throwing money away.

But. What if the 1.33 master was made in 1080 x 1440 and the only way to present that in 1.78 was to crop it to 800 x 1440 and upscale it ("zoom" it up) to 1080 x 1920. Wouldn't that be in essence, what you'd be doing with the BD? Yes it would.

Unless the 1.33 master was made originally in 1440 x 1920 (2K) or higher, all 1.78 1080 versions would be zooms.

So before you start complaining they gave you a 1080 x 1440 master instead of a 1080 x 1920 master for this picture, first ask and find out if one even exists. Otherwise even if they remastered/reissued the picture in 1080 x 1920, all you'd get is h same thing you're getting now already zoomed for you.

So, you can zoom it now and have it.

[Darth Lavender]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

But. What if the 1.33 master was made in 1080 x 1440 and the only way to present that in 1.78 was to crop it to 800 x 1440 and upscale it ("zoom" it up) to 1080 x 1920. Wouldn't that be in essence, what you'd be doing with the BD? Yes it would.

Unless the 1.33 master was made originally in 1440 x 1920 (2K) or higher, all 1.78 1080 versions would be zooms.

So before you start complaining they gave you a 1080 x 1440 master instead of a 1080 x 1920 master for this picture, first ask and find out if one even exists. Otherwise even if they remastered/reissued the picture in 1080 x 1920, all you'd get is h same thing you're getting now already zoomed for you.

So, you can zoom it now and have it.

I just opened the thread to post this very observation.
Given the slight 'jaggies' we already see on the blu-ray, one suspects that Warner might already be pushing the resolution a little too high (not sure when Justice League was created but, as mentioned elsewhere, Warner went through a stage were at least their 'High Definition' masters for DVD PAL, NTSC and later high definition broadcast weren't true 1080p, so it seems pretty plausible that at some stage the same sort of cost-cutting took place regarding animation)

The next question, of course, is why Warner didn't just create a new master (as they now do with Blu-Ray films) That sort of thing was done occasionally with older anime (the 80s "Urotsukidoji" movies were apparently 'refilmed' from the original drawings for release in America, and the same sort of thing happened with the restoration of 'Neon Genesis Evangelion')
In this case, it's probably a mix of two reasons...
- Warner feels it just isn't worth the cost/effort.
- As with pretty much all the more recent animation, Justice League may have been animated partly in the physical cells, and then partly within the computer. In which case, just 're-filming' the cells would leave you with a lot of stuff missing (depending on the animation style; certain backgrounds, possibly things like laser beams, certain lighting effects, etc.)

[Deciazulado]

Well I'm only speculating here, someone that's an expert on Warner animation must know more, about the particulars of each case, but in general and this goes for every TV program etc, if the elements were created or finalized at X resolutions and there's no higher resolution film negative involved, you can't create a "new" master, unless you mean do all the work again (make a new movie). If Warner animatiion was done all in film (and I mean specially in 35mm film but 16mm too) then a re-scan is possible, that's how you remaster movies. But if the "master" is not film, if the finished work is not film , it's "video" , it can't be re-scanned, it can only be scaled. That's why things like the SFX of Babylon 5 or Star Trek Next Generation or things shot live in NTSC like Saturday Night Live would have to be: scalings in any other video resolution that's not 480, and why you hear that to do B5 or Next Generation proper would mean $$$, the film parts could be scanned again, but the SFX would have to be started from scratch, and everything be re-edted toguether. If it's film it can be scanned at higher resolutions till its detail maxes out. Or if its CGI and you have the raw data for rendering it may be possible to re-render higher. But if not, it's just scaling.

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

That's why things like the SFX of Babylon 5 or Star Trek Next Generation or things shot live in NTSC like Saturday Night Live would have to be: scalings in any other video resolution that's not 480, and why you hear that to do B5 or Next Generation proper would mean $$$, the film parts could be scanned again, but the SFX would have to be started from scratch, and everything be re-edted toguether.

What a way to start my weekend. Babylon 5 is one of my favorite TV series and would love to see it on Blu-ray, but I doubt theres a big enough fanbase to warrant all the extra work. In their mind anyway.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

But. What if the 1.33 master was made in 1080 x 1440 and the only way to present that in 1.78 was to crop it to 800 x 1440 and upscale it ("zoom" it up) to 1080 x 1920. Wouldn't that be in essence, what you'd be doing with the BD? Yes it would.

Unless the 1.33 master was made originally in 1440 x 1920 (2K) or higher, all 1.78 1080 versions would be zooms.

So before you start complaining they gave you a 1080 x 1440 master instead of a 1080 x 1920 master for this picture, first ask and find out if one even exists. Otherwise even if they remastered/reissued the picture in 1080 x 1920, all you'd get is h same thing you're getting now already zoomed for you.

So, you can zoom it now and have it.

If the creator of the show created the show in widescreen in anticipation of future HD broadcasts, SURELY he/they had the foresight to think about this.

Most likely, WB, who KNEW the fans wanted the widescreen version, STILL didn't see enough reason to go back to the matted versions.

~Alan

[QuasidodoJr]

Isn't this entire situation about not wanting to watch it with pillarboxes? I guess most of you will be skipping on The Adventures of Robin Hood and Casablanca as well, then.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by QuasidodoJr

Isn't this entire situation about not wanting to watch it with pillarboxes? I guess most of you will be skipping on The Adventures of Robin Hood and Casablanca as well, then.

I'll probably get "Casablanca" whenever I can get it for around $20. I'll probably end up getting "The Adventures Of Robin Hood" eventually. "Roman Holiday" (4x3) will be a D&D purchase when it's eventually released.

HUGE difference between those and "Justice League" since the movies mentioned above were NOT intended by the creators to be matted. "Justice League" S1 was CREATED to be matted as the creator wanted it widescreen due to the emergence of HDTV... and he PREFERS the look of the widescreen version. The 4x3 versions were only done as a compromise... which is why I feel this Blu-ray release is a COMPROMISED release.

Some of us WAITED to watch the widescreen versions on TV due to the preference, and in my case, watched it on a 50-inch SDTV with black bars on the tops and bottoms... so it's not really a case of "letterboxing" and "pillarboxing" for many of us, but rather the preference of the creator.

I never watched the 4x3 versions until the DVD came out, and I was HOPING to finally get the creator's vision on Blu-ray, but it appears I will have to hold out hope for an eventual double-dip.

~Alan

[Darth Lavender]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

If the creator of the show created the show in widescreen in anticipation of future HD broadcasts, SURELY he/they had the foresight to think about this.

Most likely, WB, who KNEW the fans wanted the widescreen version, STILL didn't see enough reason to go back to the matted versions.

~Alan

There's a very detailed webpage on the Babylon 5 issue that I might be able to find the link for later.

Basically, because of tv schedules, budgets, etc. They could only render the CGI scenes in 4:3 (would have taken too long/too expensive to render 16:9, especially considering that the show was being transmitted in just 4:3 at the time) The idea was to preserve the live-action scenes (filmed in Super 35) as High Definition (presumably 1080i or 1080p) and recreate the CGI scenes later.
Unfortunately, when the DVDs came out, all the computer-models, etc. had been deleted/lost, so they couldn't just 'rerender' the CGI in 16:9, and had to go back to the NTSC recordings used for original broadcast (cropping them to fit the live-action, 16:9, scenes)

As for those scenes that include both live-action and CGI, I haven't been able to find definitive information. But, given the intentions involved, I assume those are also stored in High Definition somewhere, without the CGI.

[GGX]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread. The first season of Justice League has an OAR of 4:3.

[Deciazulado]

I'm sorry .

On the bright side, even if they only rescaled the SFX, if they do it properly this time, the SFX can look much better than they actually do on DVD right now. And maybe they'll go the Star Trek original series route one day and actually re-do the SFX . One can always hope.

[Deciazulado]

So matte it. It's easy if you have a PS3, or a display/player with zoom function, or a projector with zoom lens or CIH setting.

Those without, can use the old black tape technique and sit closer. (I always watched the open matte Psycho video I had, in widescreen like that)

(Yes I know, it's a drag not the ideal situation. Better with a zoom. Not that I condone it. But it's lemonade )

[Neil_Luv's_BLU]

Just wanted to know if anyone had bought it and what your opinion was of the set, PQ, AQ, extras... all that jazz.

I've just purchased it from a guy on ebay who I buy a lot of region free imported Blu-rays from.

[kevin2323]

just got it in the mail Ill let you know when I see it.

[Neil_Luv's_BLU]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

just got it in the mail Ill let you know when I see it.

Great

Thanks kevin

[MOONPHASE]

im not expecting to much from the audio since its not in lossless audio even though there are some good 5.1 dolby movies but i rather have it in at least dolby truehd. i would be more concerned with the pq

[kevin2323]

pq is GREAT!.....AUDIO is good not great.

[Boa Vista]

I am going to buy it after work and watch it all rest of the evening!

Time for me to go back to work! G'day everyone

[Jimmy Smith]

Picture quality is great. Say what you want about the 4:3 aspect (which as I have said I have absolutly no problem with as this preserves the original animation and often in action sequences the whole 4:3 frame is often used) the colors have a level of clarity I didn't think these episodes were capable of. There are some minor flaws such as jaggies but I think these are likely flaws in the original animation not the transfers. Television 2D animation ain't gonna be high def demo material no matter what. Still I can't think of these episodes looking better.

Audio on the other hand is dissipointing. Quality is definutly better then the 2.0 tracks on the DVDs but next to most modern theatrically released Blu-Rays they fall flat. My back speakers rarely are ever used. With 3 discs to work with would it have been so hard to include TrueHD and to remix the soundtracks. These don't sound bad just not up to a high Blu-Ray standard.

[kevink71]

Does anyone know if they are going to restore the old Superfriends cartoons and convert them on to Blu-Ray?

[DaveFi]

Originally Posted by kevink71

Does anyone know if they are going to restore the old Superfriends cartoons and convert them on to Blu-Ray?

It's pretty much a definite no on that. We'll be lucky just to get all seasons of JL/JLU on Blu.