Is HDTV Calibration worth it?

[Cordre69]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

who did your calibration??

...and why did you not ask the guy these questions before he left?

I had to go to work! He was left there working when I was already gone!
He left the before/after settings in an Excel file on a DVD though so I can see the actual differences.

I know the guy (he works for Best Buy) and I've seen his before/after on several systems here at work but they were all plasma/LCD. My TV is...LCoS I believe (Sony SXRD). Does that have anything to do with it? I Wouldn't think so but if I had a firm understanding I'd have probably done it myself.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

It's not a big deal, really. It bothers a lot of people, though, that some want to invest in calibration and it bothers a bunch of others that some don't. I don't care how you or my next door neighbor watch television or movies. But I myself am interested in getting the most accurate picture I can with the resources I choose to expend. People posting in this forum ask all the time whether calibration is worth it. If you read these threads, the vast majority of those who say it is have had it done, and the majority who say it is not worth it, have not had it done. That says a lot.

What it says to me is, "I spent $400 and danged if I'm going to say it wasn't worth it." Which is valid, as long as we remember, it's subjective.

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

I for one admit that I have not had an ISF calibration done. I have spent many hours with a consumer level colorimeter, free software, my PC and my display and Blu-ray player, and I think I have achieved a result that would be hard for a pro to make a noticeable improvement on. Every time I watch a well done movie and I see true black, excellent shadow detail for a LCD display, and when I am not blinded during very bright scenes, I consider it time well spent.

This, folks, is the way to go. Good advice, and well stated.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Cordre69

I had to go to work! He was left there working when I was already gone!
He left the before/after settings in an Excel file on a DVD though so I can see the actual differences.

I know the guy (he works for Best Buy) and I've seen his before/after on several systems here at work but they were all plasma/LCD. My TV is...LCoS I believe (Sony SXRD). Does that have anything to do with it? I Wouldn't think so but if I had a firm understanding I'd have probably done it myself.

SXRD units (I have a 70") are just not as sharp as LCD's or plasmas. I have home theater PC's hooked up to both; the SXRD just is inherently less sharp, especially when looking at text. Calibration is more help on RPTV, since there are all kinds of problems with projection, but it's not going to solve it, ultimately.

What he could do is settle in the baseline for chroma and brightness; but there are no guns to align, or anything like that. There are minor adjustments to eliminate keystone problems but that won't help fine focus.

I don't think there was much more he could do.

[Cordre69]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

SXRD units (I have a 70") are just not as sharp as LCD's or plasmas. I have home theater PC's hooked up to both; the SXRD just is inherently less sharp, especially when looking at text. Calibration is more help on RPTV, since there are all kinds of problems with projection, but it's not going to solve it, ultimately.

What he could do is settle in the baseline for chroma and brightness; but there are no guns to align, or anything like that. There are minor adjustments to eliminate keystone problems but that won't help fine focus.

I don't think there was much more he could do.

I have the before/after settings but I guess this isn't the thread for them. If someone could direct me to a more appropriate thread we can continue the investigation into the warm and fuzzy calibration.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Cordre69

I have the before/after settings but I guess this isn't the thread for them. If someone could direct me to a more appropriate thread we can continue the investigation into the warm and fuzzy calibration.

I better stay out of it - once I get up on the podium, everybody starts throwing chairs, and saying I'm crazy.

[jsteinhauer]

Here are my latest results using ColorHCFR, iOne Display 2, Vista Home Premium, and the user menus of my display and Blu-ray player. I think the grayscale is outstanding. The colors are a bit off. I could adjust so that one is dead on, but the other two then are further off. I did what I can to minimized the delta E's of the secondary colors. I have been told, but I don't really know, that my Sony display does not have a complete CMS in the service menu. If that is true, I have doubts that a pro calibrator could make adjustments that would be detectable.

[LIONSFAN20]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Here are my latest results using ColorHCFR, iOne Display 2, Vista Home Premium, and the user menus of my display and Blu-ray player. I think the grayscale is outstanding. The colors are a bit off. I could adjust so that one is dead on, but the other two then are further off. I did what I can to minimized the delta E's of the secondary colors. I have been told, but I don't really know, that my Sony display does not have a complete CMS in the service menu. If that is true, I have doubts that a pro calibrator could make adjustments that would be detectable.

I doubt a pro can help you out either, looks like you have done a VERY good job, can I ask how much you have invested in time/ and equipment?

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by LIONSFAN20

I doubt a pro can help you out either, looks like you have done a VERY good job, can I ask how much you have invested in time/ and equipment?

That is my equipment in the above post. Time, now, is another question. I have spent probably 3 hours each on 4 separate occasions. Much of that is the initial learning curve. Then after your first try, you go back to the boards and internet for reasearch and advice. But that's no matter. It's like a hobby and I enjoy passing the time that way, sometimes. Soon, though, you have to step back and enjoy it, though. The display is a Sony XBR8, and the BD player is a Denon 3800BDCI that luckily has 10 point gamma correction. None of the published reviews show you their gamma charts and non have data below 10% gray. That's where the trouble is.

[SlmShdy1]

You mentioned a learning curve. So it is safe to jump in on your own and teach yourself. I mean, if I wanted to do what you did, is there a possibility of me screwing up my TV and if so, would I be able to go back and fix it? I have a Sony too and, like you said, the service menus are limited. If the Sony's are restricted, I'm guessing it'd be hard to get lost in there.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by SlmShdy1

You mentioned a learning curve. So it is safe to jump in on your own and teach yourself. I mean, if I wanted to do what you did, is there a possibility of me screwing up my TV and if so, would I be able to go back and fix it? I have a Sony too and, like you said, the service menus are limited. If the Sony's are restricted, I'm guessing it'd be hard to get lost in there.

No. There is no risk, if you don't use the service menu. Whether you need to do that depends on the type of TV you have. I did not touch the service menu. Now, that said, there is a limit on what you can do, but if you want your picture to be as good as the published reviews (those using user menu settings), you can do it yourself with a colorimeter, DVE and ColorHCFR software. There are some free downloadable test patterns, as well, if you don't want to buy DVE. You should be able to get an accurate gamma (of your choice), color temperature and color tracking from 10-90% gray with this equipment as well as at least making the best of your color as you can. The filters in DVE are great, if your display is very accurate, but not very helpful, if you have to compromise. There is a guide to calibration at AVSForum from a guy named Kal and one at CurtPalme.com (I think) that walk you through it.

I would spend some time at AVSForums in the display calibration section. You can get a lot of friendly help there. If your display does not have gamma correction, I will bet that the 0-10% grayscale will crush blacks. If your Blu-ray player allows for gamma correction, you can overcome this somewhat.

I can only comment on Sony XBR8 and XBR2 displays, since that is what I have, and for certain, the XBR2 can't do what the 8 does, but I am still impressed by the picture every time I watch it. The menu selections on the Sony sets are all very similar. You've got so many boneheads posting FUD about 2008 displays becoming obsolete this year...morons! My XBR2 is still beautiful.

If you go through the entire process yourself, and you still feel the need to hire a pro, you will very well informed and able to scrutinize what is being done.

[graf1k]

I don't understand exactly how you can damage your TV by going into the service menu. I mean I'm guessing by using settings that are way out of spec but I can't imagine why TV manufacturers would even include possible settings that can brick your TV.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by graf1k

I don't understand exactly how you can damage your TV by going into the service menu. I mean I'm guessing by using settings that are way out of spec but I can't imagine why TV manufacturers would even include possible settings that can brick your TV.

settings such as Geometry, if messed with can screw your TV up pretty bad.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by graf1k

I don't understand exactly how you can damage your TV by going into the service menu. I mean I'm guessing by using settings that are way out of spec but I can't imagine why TV manufacturers would even include possible settings that can brick your TV.

The service menu is exactly that; for service by a trained technician. It is not something the average person can even get to unless they go searching the internet for the code to access it. Once in, you have the ability to change all sorts of things that can totally crash your set and make it unwatchable if you don't know what you are doing. And if this happens, it is not covered under warranty (because the user is not suppose to be messing in there). I've gone into mine, but only to check the number of hours of operation, and I was sweating the whole time!

[Pirate King]

This has been very informative. Like some of you, I used DVE to calibrate my tv, and yes, I do like the picture better. I noticed where one poster said he had his sharpness set to 98. The instructions that came with the calibration dvd said to set your sharpness to zero, which I did, and is where is has stayed. There was information about sharpness only adding video noise and you did not need to add sharpness to the picture. I think the picture is still very sharp and detailed with no sharpness, Anyway, I guess this shows that we all like to look at our own personal tastes. (Back to how you like your steak). I have spent a number of hours getting this tv as close to possible to what DVE suggests and I do love the picture and I do think everyone should have their TV calibrated. Yes, a pro could have done it better, but after two years with this TV, I think I have it fairly close and I am happy. Go spend the thirty bucks for DVE, if you dont like the new settings, then the thirty bucks has not broke the bank.

I would agree that there is only one perfect and correct setting, however, if you want a little more blue in your sky, or a little more red in your blood, then thats your choice.

[Halcro 1]

who would want the sharpness @ 98 Wow ....

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by Pirate King

I would agree that there is only one perfect and correct setting, however, if you want a little more blue in your sky, or a little more red in your blood, then thats your choice.

True. What's funny about that is when someone "prefers" completely bizarre picture settings and wants to share them with the world. It's sort of like an old fat guy wearing a speedo at beach and thinking he's hot stuff. Meanwhile everyone's chuckling behind his back.

In some respect, I think ther may be some maturation factors when it comes to picture quality. When I first got my HDTV, I was in awe of the bright, vibrant colors of the Vivid setting. I was indeed happy with it. I claimed that I preferred it. I think it was the novelty. But after a while, novelty wears off, and you're watching things that just look wrong. I went from there to stealing someone elses settings off the internet. Then DVE and used filters by eye. Then the colorimeter just to set peak luminance, white balance and primary colors. At that point, you really start noticing defects in your picture, because you can see the problems in objective terms. The toughest thing on a LCD is shadow detail. That's what I've worked hardest on trying to make as good as I can.


Those who watch their Vivid pictures and are defensive about them are only fooling themselves. It's not just "what the artist intended" that they are not seeing, but they can't even be sure they are seeing everything that's there. Does their TV or BD player have IRE7.5 vs. IRE0.0 settings? If it's set wrong, they may be clipping black. Similar problems abound if the wrong color space is selected. If the contrast is too high they could be clipping white. If they're watching a display with a cranked up backlight at full contrast in a dark room they're own irises are impacting what they see as much as the picture settings. This is not an attack; I've been there too. I eventually cam to my senses.