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[hardcore_canadian]

Originally Posted by j_rocca42

hmmm... seems understandible, though a bit harsh...

Totally Unnecessary... If somebody is stupid enough to believe these things, it's not my fault... It's kind of stupid... there's already less and less people talking on these forums... but having even more rules couldn't hurt right?

[dgator783]

banning is too extreme for posting a rumor that the mods find "not worthy"....its just coming off a little snobbish in my opinion....

if this was the movie discussion section, we'd all have gotten ban'd during the format wars from posting rumors from sites not deemed "good enough"....

Im not saying post useless information that is more likely false, but leave it up to us (the actual people who make this site what it is, help support it through the amazon links and such) to determine what we find to be true....we are all not complete morons....lol

[AranhaHunter]

I don't understand why folks are upset about this, it's not like us mods are gonna go ban happy, let's go over some of those websites:

-Vgtilt has been wrong before and if I'm not mistaken been caught altering their articles after the fact to make it seem like they predicted stuff correctly.
-Surfergirl/boy/dude has been wrong plenty of times, Bioshock will never come to PS3, FFXIII out late 2008, Tekken 6 remains PS3 exclusive, etc etc
- Hiphopgamer has been wrong before, Superbowl commercial, MS will buy SE, etc
-Same for the other sites, but vgchartz I'll explain in a little more detail to folks here.

VGChartz it is a site created by a British guy that goes by the name of ioi and at first he started posting his numbers on GAF to promote his site, people saw through him, told him to stop, he didn't and he got permabanned, unfortunately his site got too big and people believe his numbers and now we can't ask sonycowboy or a couple of other folks on the GAF thread for other games numbers.

Basically his site now is just a bunch of made up numbers, as max said his LBP numbers are wrong, if I'm not mistaken he has Dead Rising 400k higher than the latest Capcom shipment for the game, etc...he used to adjust to NPD, GFK and Famitsu/MC numbers, but his site (and his head) got so big that I hear he's not adjusting for the official numbers anymore and him and his legion of followers argue that their numbers are right and the official ones are wrong.

Guys, please understand that we're not gonna go ban happy and ban everybody, there are just a handful of banned sites and those sites have proven to be unreliable and posted false information. This really is a good thing guys, trust me, you wouldn't want bad info posted here all the time right?

And you can still post from other sites and you won't be banned or warned by posting from IGN, Kotaku, Joystiq, but the thread might be locked or deleted if the information turns out false.

[hardcore_canadian]

Originally Posted by AranhaHunter

I don't understand why folks are upset about this, it's not like us mods are gonna go ban happy, let's go over some of those websites:

Guys, please understand that we're not gonna go ban happy and ban everybody, there are just a handful of banned sites and those sites have proven to be unreliable and posted false information. This really is a good thing guys, trust me, you wouldn't want bad info posted here all the time right?

And you can still post from other sites and you won't be banned or warned by posting from IGN, Kotaku, Joystiq, but the thread might be locked or deleted if the information turns out false.

I just think that this is a useless new rule that is just going to make people think they have to watch what they say and be a lot less talkative, and they haven't exactly been a lively bunch lately.

The Local News is Wrong Quite often, but people quote them all the time...

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by hardcore_canadian

Doesn't this seem a bit oppressive? Taking ourselves a bit to seriously no?

What's so oppressive about it?

We aren't stopping links from major sites, just trying to cut out bad info from rumour blogs.

We have been through this before with the Blu-ray - HD DVD rumour stuff. I don't want a bunch of rdjams and beatboys using their own personal propaganda websites to peddle false info and have that taken as fact on this site.

There were countless times when someone would go on rdscam's website, come here and start spouting nonsene.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by dgator783

banning is too extreme for posting a rumor that the mods find "not worthy"....its just coming off a little snobbish in my opinion....

if this was the movie discussion section, we'd all have gotten ban'd during the format wars from posting rumors from sites not deemed "good enough"....

Im not saying post useless information that is more likely false, but leave it up to us (the actual people who make this site what it is, help support it through the amazon links and such) to determine what we find to be true....we are all not complete morons....lol

If you post a rumour from a new website or one that is not on the ban list but it turns out to be wrong, don't expect to be banned. Seriously, it is only the sites on the ban list that can earn you any sort of time. Post away from other sources!

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by hardcore_canadian

I just think that this is a useless new rule that is just going to make people think they have to watch what they say and be a lot less talkative, and they haven't exactly been a lively bunch lately.

The Local News is Wrong Quite often, but people quote them all the time...

No on really takes local news seriously as it isn't seen as a credible source of information. A lot of people take rumour blogs as good info...

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

No on really takes local news seriously as it isn't seen as a credible source of information. A lot of people take rumour blogs as good info...

I take that view as a bit of a disconnect with reality. More people find broadcast news to be reliable than rumor blogs.

Look, you started out by naming a very restricted list of acceptable sources... you didn't just name bad ones, you flat out dictated that there's only four or five acceptable sources. You may as well have just banned all posting of figures and "rumors", and posted links for your "short list" as a substitute for all conversation. What fun.

If you post a rumour from a new website or one that is not on the ban list but it turns out to be wrong, don't expect to be banned. Seriously, it is only the sites on the ban list that can earn you any sort of time. Post away from other sources!

...That's not consistent with your original post. You opened right up with the threat that if someone cited a source that was not on your very short "approved list", that they should expect some "vacation time".

Sales numbers must be from NPD, GfK, Enterbrain (Famitsu), Media Create or Sinobi for first day Japan sales. Other sources like VGChartz are not acceptable and linking or quoting them will earn you a one week holiday.

That's the heavy-handedness that troubles me. If you didn't really mean it, you shouldn't have said it... not that I expect you to admit that you might be wrong.

It's true about what you said before, though, how this doesn't really change anything. You're still just going to continue to delete and edit whatever you choose, and ban or not ban based on how much you like certain people. These aren't new rules, it's just you voicing your complaint and attaching a threat.

It's lately gotten to be where the mods are the biggest troublemakers around here now. You're (not so slowly) killing your forums off.

[browinie]

Originally Posted by hardcore_canadian

I just think that this is a useless new rule that is just going to make people think they have to watch what they say and be a lot less talkative, and they haven't exactly been a lively bunch lately.

The Local News is Wrong Quite often, but people quote them all the time...

So, people will be less forward about having a discussion simply because they're not allowed to post articles from banned sites? that's just absurd. It's 5 banned sites, and 4 sites that you should be wary of. Is that restrictive in conversing in any way? If their are users here who are able to only have a discussion based on rumors, and faulty sales data then those are the users who are actually part of the problem.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

I take that view as a bit of a disconnect with reality. More people find broadcast news to be reliable than rumor blogs.

Look, you started out by naming a very restricted list of acceptable sources... you didn't just name bad ones, you flat out dictated that there's only four or five acceptable sources. You may as well have just banned all posting of figures and "rumors", and posted links for your "short list" as a substitute for all conversation. What fun.

What are you on about, the only other sales "source" apart from the official ones is VGchartz, and they are banned because their figures are wrong. If a sales source comes up with a similar MO to NPD or GfK (paid subscription service) then they will also be welcome, but as it stands these four trackers are the only ones which are reliable.

...That's not consistent with your original post. You opened right up with the threat that if someone cited a source that was not on your very short "approved list", that they should expect some "vacation time".

What approved list?!?!?! There's a ban list, no approved list, all other websites and sources are innocent until proven guilty! If a website not on the list consistently gets things wrong then they will be added, and conversely if a site on the ban list cleans up their act they will be taken off.

That's the heavy-handedness that troubles me. If you didn't really mean it, you shouldn't have said it... not that I expect you to admit that you might be wrong.

WTF!!! All that is happening with sales is not allowing unnofficial (wrong) figures to be posted, first time offenders (i.e. those who don't know any better) will be warned to not do it again or risk a one week ban. Repeat offenders will have their ban length increased.

It's true about what you said before, though, how this doesn't really change anything. You're still just going to continue to delete and edit whatever you choose, and ban or not ban based on how much you like certain people. These aren't new rules, it's just you voicing your complaint and attaching a threat.

It's lately gotten to be where the mods are the biggest troublemakers around here now. You're (not so slowly) killing your forums off.

What are you on about, there are plenty of posters I don't particularly like (many of them know who they are) but I don't persecute anyone on the forums, ask robinandtami, is she banned? No. We have had plenty of disagreements in the past over various issues, but not in a million years would I ban someone because I don't get on with them.

[AikonEnt]

So, all you people that are complaining about the new rules would you have me believe that you're ok with lies and crap posted on here? This is the first (and usually only) place I come to for PS3 and Blu info and news. I want reliable information from reliable sources, why is that such a bad thing? The more people whine about it the greater the chance of being able to link to any source being removed, then you'll have something to cry about.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

What approved list?!?!?! There's a ban list, no approved list, all other websites and sources are innocent until proven guilty! If a website not on the list consistently gets things wrong then they will be added, and conversely if a site on the ban list cleans up their act they will be taken off.

This approved list:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

...Sales numbers must be from NPD, GfK, Enterbrain (Famitsu), Media Create or Sinobi... Other sources like VGChartz are not acceptable and linking or quoting them will earn you a one week holiday.

Like I said before, if you didn't really mean it, you shouldn't have said it. You have the right to backpedal, of course, but it's kinda insulting to one's intelligence to deny saying something you can be text-quoted on.

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

What are you on about, there are plenty of posters I don't particularly like (many of them know who they are,) but I don't persecute anyone on the forums, ask robinandtami, is she banned? No. We have had plenty of disagreements in the past over various issues, but not in a million years would I ban someone because I don't get on with them.

Come on. Don't bother denying that you guys delete, edit, ban, and suspend on a totally arbitrary basis. One day a couple months ago, one of you (you know who you are, boss) just started deleting every post I made, no matter what I was writing, even though I was never given a warning or suspension. I've run across others here who have claimed similar harrassment. I've also watched many instances of one member or other totally picking a fight, cursing, calling names, and then the moment the aggrieved party responded, they got suspended or banned while the instigator caught no trouble at all. You yourself individually may be able to wash your hands of it, but that doesn't speak for the website as a whole.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help. I think you're on the path of ruining a perfectly good website.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

So, all you people that are complaining about the new rules would you have me believe that you're ok with lies and crap posted on here? This is the first (and usually only) place I come to for PS3 and Blu info and news. I want reliable information from reliable sources, why is that such a bad thing? The more people whine about it the greater the chance of being able to link to any source being removed, then you'll have something to cry about.

Not at all. It's the idea that some people are allowed to post lies and crap while others are not. You're still gonna get bad information, it's just going to be coming from allowed sources.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

This approved list:

Sales! FFS!!! Sales! This is a very sensitive area, look around on other forums, look at NeoGAF, search on Google, but take a look around, if you can name me one other reliable game sales tracker, I will be very surprised.

Like I said before, if you didn't really mean it, you shouldn't have said it. You have the right to backpedal, of course, but it's kinda insulting to one's intelligence to deny saying something you can be text-quoted on.

Like I said, if another sales tracker comes along and offers a paid subscription service a la NPD/GfK and they have a proven retail network and proven methods of calculation, then there wouldn't be an issue, they won't be banned (innocent until proven otherwise). The only reason I mentioned the "approved" list is because there are so few reliable game sales trackers out there that it is easy to do (there are only 4 ffs).

Come on. Don't bother denying that you guys delete, edit, ban, and suspend on a totally arbitrary basis. One day a couple months ago, one of you (you know who you are, boss) just started deleting every post I made, no matter what I was writing, even though I was never given a warning or suspension. I've run across others here who have claimed similar harrassment. I've also watched many instances of one member or other totally picking a fight, cursing, calling names, and then the moment the aggrieved party responded, they got suspended or banned while the instigator caught no trouble at all. You yourself individually may be able to wash your hands of it, but that doesn't speak for the website as a whole.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help. I think you're on the path of ruining a perfectly good website.

I don't know about that, but I took a look at your post history and no one moderator has singled you out and you have never been given any infraction points so I don't know what you are talking about really.

You should take a look at the ToS, moderators have the right to edit or delete posts they deem are not in the interests of the forum. I personally avoid doing it where I can, and I know the rest of the mod team takes a very similar view of it. Hell, I just got a ticking off yesterday for being too harsh...

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

Not at all. It's the idea that some people are allowed to post lies and crap while others are not. You're still gonna get bad information, it's just going to be coming from allowed sources.

Yeah but if the same website keep getting flagged then they will be added to the ban list. The idea is to create a filter for the shit to caught into so people can come to this forum and know that if they read something here they can bank on it.

It should become more like the insider discussion, good reliable information that everyone benefits from.

Edit: Also I don't know where you are getting this idea of different rules for different people. It says in the bloody thread title that "all members, new and old must read". I'm not picking on any single person or group of people, everybody is subject to these rules, you get a warning and a link to the thread if you are new to the site or new to the PS3 section, but after that you will be expected to abide by these rules.

If a long-standing member links to a VGchartz sourced article you can bet they will get banned, as much as I would hate to do it, they would be banned for the week as they should know better.

[Marine Mike]

I'm not even too sure why people are complaining about not being able to post bogus articles.

The moderators have already said that they aren't going to ban every person that posts a bogus article and they will take every case into consideration.

Like I've stated before, why get defensive on getting your threads/posts deleted based on an article you didn't even write?

[Xerios]

agreed and abided

[Blu Jacket]

Look, here's the bottom line. If someone posts a story and calls it a RUMOR, that is enough right there. A rumor in and of itself immediately tells you to take the information with a grain of salt. A rumor is NOT considered a fact, just a possible outcome that may or may not ever come to pass. All I see is one or two people deciding for everyone else what is or is not a good rumor. You are telling us that we are not intelligent enough to decide for ourselves, so Mom and Dad have to do it for us. It is heavy handed and draconian to threaten people simply because you don't like the source of a rumor and presenting your personal opinion as fact.

[browinie]

Posting a rumor and posting a rumor from a banned site are two different matters. One could be from a credible or potentially credible site, and the other, from an established attention whoring site. It's really not that difficult to understand why a site has been banned.

[Maximus]

Stop acting so butthurt. You posted a thread not labelled as rumour, it turned out to be false and now you are acting up.

It's not that anyone is calling anyone else thick, the law tells me not to go out and shoot people. It's not insulting to my intelligence to make it clear that people shouldn't do it, I mean I already know it's bad to do that, but I don't act all butthurt and protest to the government to do away with law and order because they insult my intelligence.

Name one thing in the new set of guidelines that you genuinely think is wrong, I mean they are pretty simple. Use official sales data, source rumours from reliable websites or magazines, and be wary of inconsistency from major blogs/websites.

Maybe it does insult your intelligence, honestly I don't care, because it gives people a reference so they know what is and isn't allowed.