Scanners (1981)

[MifuneFan]

Theatrical accuracy >>>>>>>> What the director wants now

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Theatrical accuracy >>>>>>>> What the director wants now

Cronenberg disagrees with you. Cameron disagrees with you. Lucas disagrees with you. And many others, including fans. I'm actually completely over this color grading nonsense. It did bother me at one time, but not anymore. If you really want a Blu-ray that's 99% accurate to a 35mm theatrical print, then you might as well get rid of your entire collection and boycott all future releases. Some might be closer than other, but none are exact.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Theatrical accuracy >>>>>>>> What the director wants now

Absolutely. 100%.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Cronenberg disagrees with you. Cameron disagrees with you. Lucas disagrees with you. And many others, including fans. I'm actually completely over this color grading nonsense. It did bother me at one time, but not anymore. If you really want a Blu-ray that's 99% accurate to a 35mm theatrical print, then you might as well get rid of your entire collection and boycott all future releases. Some might be closer than other, but none are exact.

It doesn't have to be 100% exact - how about scenes that were white before stay white though, instead of green?

[KowalskiVideo]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Except in this case it's irrelevant on what can be recreated. What matters is what the director wants period.

If you want to put that way: Here we are talking about that "what the director wants now" is bull... Nothing changed and we can go on talking about the same issues since the same director signed off a potentially superior version 33 years ago. Your point has been made clear and nobody questioned that the recent decision about color was made, but that the decision that was made lead to "annihilation" of the original work.

To generalize it: Its only rational to "demand" a historical accurate version (because it already exists); wanting the director to change/re-create his past work because then its tabula rasa.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by KowalskiVideo

No. Not true. Otherwise mark the portion in the screenshot. Please.

This will be my final post in this thread:

Left arm and portions of the shoulder/jacket. I can very clearly see how red splashes become dark/black and disappear. (There is also a red dot/blood drop in the black area next to the arm that also disappears). I can also see other areas of the image where other red splashes are also shrunk. You can examine your original screencaptures. Regardless, obvious examples below:

1. Criterion



2. German release



And it will be great if you go on record here and state that you were not in any way involved with the German release (directly/indirectly) so that readers can put your comments in the proper context when you question the validity of Criterion's information and work.

Have a great week.

Pro-B

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

This will be my final post in this thread:

Left arm and portions of the shoulder/jacket. I can very clearly see how red splashes become dark/black and disappear. (There is also a red dot/blood drop in the black area next to the arm that also disappears). I can also see other areas of the image where other red splashes are also shrunk. You can examine your original screencaptures. Regardless, obvious examples below:

I must be blind because I can't see any missing splashes in the Subkultur release. Perhaps if someone could encircle it in the examples. But choosing between that or the cleanup... I suppose I should have "seen the Criterion BD" and perhaps the cleanup is not noticable in motion, or maybe other scenes are affected similarly... well I'm happy my Subkultur BD is on the way now.

[HansEpp]

Originally Posted by tedopolous

I must be blind because I can't see any missing splashes in the Subkultur release. Perhaps if someone could encircle it in the examples. But choosing between that or the cleanup... I suppose I should have "seen the Criterion BD" and perhaps the cleanup is not noticable in motion, or maybe other scenes are affected similarly... well I'm happy my Subkultur BD is on the way now.

I guess pro-bassoonist's equipment is not calibrated correctly, and he simply can not see it. That's all. Because the pictures in his posting show all the details he described. If you ask me, he totally discredited himself and his review of Scanners (at least regarding the technical side of thing).

The only thing that bothers me, I need to buy Criterion's Scanners for the inclusion of David Cronenberg's Stereo alone. But I will defintely wait until the next B&N-Sale. I need to add it to my Criterion Collection, no matter what.

[mdonovan]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Cronenberg disagrees with you. Cameron disagrees with you. Lucas disagrees with you. And many others, including fans. I'm actually completely over this color grading nonsense. It did bother me at one time, but not anymore. If you really want a Blu-ray that's 99% accurate to a 35mm theatrical print, then you might as well get rid of your entire collection and boycott all future releases. Some might be closer than other, but none are exact.

The bolder text makes this posting an auto fail. Han shot first dam it !!!! How can you be over the color grading thing ? I'm mean as a film buff don't you think once a film gets released it becomes a part of history? Do you prefer Freidkin's original blu ray of The a French Connection ???? Or Walter Hill's comedic reimagining of The Warriors ???

[Goremeister100]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

The Subkulture release is sub-par. Do you guys even know what DNR is? What you see there in the head exploding screenshots is not DNR, it's automatic dirt removal. This is absolutely normal and the Criterion disc looks terrific. It's not too bright either. The Subkulture is too dark because the contrast is blown out.

This is sad...

And those of you who result in name calling and personal attacks instead of having a discussion should go elsewhere.

You're wrong. Subkultur's release looks great. I saw it in the theater and this is how I remember it. I can't believe anyone is defending this:



You're telling me this looks right??? Criterion or Cronenberg messed up because this is how they think the film should look for today's audiences. Why is that so hard to grasp? Look at THIEF for another example since this has already been mentioned to death.

[The Film Expert]

So one minute people are talking about how reliable and trustworthy this reviewer is and then when you find out he disagrees with you on one thing, you turn on him and make him out to be a horrible person because he can't see this nonexistent DNR you are talking about.

He has made some very good points, clearly the German Blu-ray isn't accurate to how it originally looked and the Criterion is the way Cronenberg wants it to look.

-The Film Expert

[MifuneFan]

..I'm pretty sure no one is making Pro-B out to be a horrible person. There are some who merely disagree with him on certain points. You can actually highly respect someone and their reviews, yet disagree with certain stances they take. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

-Common Sense Expert

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by Goremeister100

You're wrong. Subkultur's release looks great. I saw it in the theater and this is how I remember it. I can't believe anyone is defending this:



You're telling me this looks right??? Criterion or Cronenberg messed up because this is how they think the film should look for today's audiences. Why is that so hard to grasp? Look at THIEF for another example since this has already been mentioned to death.

Color grading is personal. But what I'm interested in is the transfer itself. Criterion has no sharpening, Criterion has no blown out contrast. Criterion is a newer scan. Criterion has more detail. Criterion has better compression.

And since I don't mind and even prefer the new color grading, Criterion is a definite purchase for me. I can see why most of you who don't like the new color grading are so upset. Ya'll are stuck with an inferior all around transfer. So that really sucks.

[tama]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

..I'm pretty sure no one is making Pro-B out to be a horrible person. There are some who merely disagree with him on certain points. You can actually highly respect someone and their reviews, yet disagree with certain stances they take. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

-Common Sense Expert

Then you missed the post that Moderator CrazyBlue removed (and apparantly that poster suspended).

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by bgart13

Has anyone seen the Criterion HD digital download of SCANNERS that's been available for a while? Is it the same as the bd? If so, then this news should be old by now.

I don't believe it's the same. This whole situation reeks of the "Night of the Living Dead '90" debate that happened in the Twilight Time thread a few years ago. People claimed that release was officially approved as well, and it's obvious to everyone that things weren't right. Thankfully other HD sources existed and fans still have/had the option of acquiring that film as it was originally viewed if they put in a little effort. The Twilight Time NOTLD Blu doesn't look bad, but it does look drastically different. From the screen shots I think it's safe to say the same thing has happened here again. Is the Criterion release director approved? I'm sure it is. Has digital manipulation occurred to completely change the color of this edition? Obviously yes. Is one more correct than the other? That depends on who you ask. Thankfully we have a few HD sources for this film so people can decide which is right for them. Personally, I was SUPER excited for this release and had been clamoring for it for some time... Now however after seeing the screenshots I think I'm going to wait for a used copy to creep onto the market while I look at the other releases as well.

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Color grading is personal. But what I'm interested in is the transfer itself. Criterion has no sharpening, Criterion has no blown out contrast. Criterion is a newer scan. Criterion has more detail. Criterion has better compression.

This is not correct at all. As pointed out by KowalskiVideo, and this was the first thing I noticed, brighter details are often completely suppressed on the Criterion release. The Subkultur release has much more detail kept here. And that's not even taking the cleanup gone awry into account.

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by tedopolous

This is not correct at all. As pointed out by KowalskiVideo, and this was the first thing I noticed, brighter details are often completely suppressed on the Criterion release. The Subkultur release has much more detail kept here. And that's not even taking the cleanup gone awry into account.

Nope. It doesn't matter what Kowalaki said. You guys are mixing up sharpening for detail. Look at both screenshots of the trucks leaving the factory. On the Sublulture you can't even the the truck's grill lines. Perfect as day on the Criterion.

[EddieLarkin]

Where is this screenshot from the Subkultur of the trucks leaving the factory?

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Where is this screenshot from the Subkultur of the trucks leaving the factory?

I was about to ask the same thing. But from those comparisons I've seen in this thread, it's impossible to dispute the fact that Subculture has better white detail. Like the shot with the guys in lab coats.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by tama

Then you missed the post that Moderator CrazyBlue removed (and apparantly that poster suspended).

Yep, I must've