Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by miribeau

Certainly, I understand the desire for better, and we can all ask that he remember to check Ronin, Screen Archives and Diabolik, before claiming a title is sold out, or just do what I would do and say "probably sold out, who knows where all Bill sent this thing", but he isn't lying to say it is sold out, if he thinks it is.

Don't forget HamiltonBook.

[xXx$uicide_Ma$terxXx]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Don't forget HamiltonBook.

And grindhouse video

[AKNewbie]

People!
That is a totally different Zombie Nightmare starring Adam West and Tia Carrere.
Totally, totally different. Plus this one glows in the dark.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by miribeau

Thanks for clarifying their issue. But, I have to ask, do people really consider it shady to remove advertising for another vendor from your own facebook page? I've never advertised, in addition to my own work, for any companies with whom I wasn't working directly. I hardly call that shady. Next think you know, people will be claiming he should be linking to the VS monthly pre-order bundle, every time it comes up, unless he wants people to think he's a shady businessman. As I'm sure you know, he has every right to try to make money off of his own release. He's not making anything if Bill sells a copy via Ronin. This all seems rather petty to me. If people want to criticize, that's fine, just pick something real and deserving.

[El_Fez]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe

Slipcovers get me to order movies on release day, instead of on sale a year later. That's a pretty big incentive for the indie labels.

Before VS started really raising the bar for slip, I couldn't give two shits about them and would often regularly just throw them away. But those nice, thick, embossed, sexy covers have swayed me - as least as VS goes. I unashamedly picked up Slaughterhouse because of the gimmick and a slip for Raw Force just because.

So I can see sexing up a release with them, but I don't obsess on them.

[kraven]

They make a nice smooth spine display!

[DaveyJoe]

Originally Posted by whedon

The question here is, if there was no slipover at all would you still buy the release? To me a slipover is an added incentive to purchase a title, not a reason to purchase an item. I'd still purchase VS releases if they announced tomorrow that slipcovers were no more.

I would wait for the 50% sale in May or November if it wasn't for the slips. There's no question that VS is moving titles much faster because of the limited slips they recently introduced.

[kraven]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe

I would wait for the 50% sale in May or November if it wasn't for the slips. There's no question that VS is moving titles much faster because of the limited slips they recently introduced.

It's slips and quality. You can't just put it all on the slip.

[DaveyJoe]

Originally Posted by kraven

It's slips and quality. You can't just put it all on the slip.

I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth.

[kraven]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe

I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth.

You have to pay me to put things in your mouth. Those are my words.

[DaveyJoe]

Originally Posted by kraven

You have to pay me to put things in your mouth. Those are my words.

Then don't quote me with 'em. Limited slips helping VS move titles faster speaks nothing to the quality of their product, which is stellar. But my point stands that the slips are helping them sell more product upfront.

I love the Criterion Collection but I wait to buy all of their titles during the 50% off sales in July and November. There's no incentive for me to pre-order or buy on release day, and there's no penalty for waiting. I know when the sales will be every year. That used to be the case for me with VS until they introduced the limited slips.

[kraven]

I won't quote you with my response so it's not you saying it.

We are in the DF thread talking about slipcovers because DF thinks gimmick slips are gonna move product. VS moves product not just because of slipcovers, but also the quality of the slipcover, as well as the quality of there product.

Slipcovers alone don't do it. Plenty of labels have slipcover editions that don't move. CR will be sitting on JBD for a long time. Not just because it's already been released, but because the slip is horrible, and they didn't do much to improve it.

If it's midnight, and I'm dying to watch Dead Pit, but can't be bothered to turn on the lights, this gimmick is gonna be great, that's why the VS VHS opening and Slaughterhouse gimmicks are superior quality gimmicks that move product.

[DaveyJoe]

I agree, premium packaging can be a great incentive for a fully functioning label, but customers have to be aware of who you are, and how to purchase your product. I think keeping the store in maintenance mode for so long really hurt Dark Force, I kind of stopped checking after that.

[kraven]

The explanations for the store being down have never made sense. You just have to chalk it up to if it made sense it wouldn't be DF.

[El_Fez]

Originally Posted by kraven

You have to pay me to put things in your mouth. Those are my words.

What's the going rate for that service?

. . . .asking for a friend.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by kraven

....
Slipcovers alone don't do it. Plenty of labels have slipcover editions that don't move. CR will be sitting on JBD for a long time. Not just because it's already been released, but because the slip is horrible, and they didn't do much to improve it.

If it's midnight, and I'm dying to watch Dead Pit, but can't be bothered to turn on the lights, this gimmick is gonna be great, that's why the VS VHS opening and Slaughterhouse gimmicks are superior quality gimmicks that move product.

You are both correct and incorrect. On the one hand, VS has an established reputation for film restoration, so, of course, the restored film is a huge part of the allure of a VS product, as you say. However, they have, for quite a run, gone out of their way to provide definitive releases of unreleased films. Many of their films have never been released on DVD, prior to the Blu+DVD combo they are selling, let alone in HD. But, now, they are reportedly branching out and releasing more films that have been released, not just on DVD but on Blu-ray. How well will a slipcovered edition, even a beautiful slipcovered edition, of Terminal Island or Working Girls sell, given how many new films we all have out there, ones we've only seen on VHS or worse? So, you are right that a film not being worth it will, of course, hamper sales, but you are implying that the Dark Force line won't fall into same that category, both the good and bad, just like VS, with an interplay between marketing and releasing films that make people sit up and take notice.

When it comes to the appeal of David's films, I have to wonder if you have actually sat down and watched any of his individual/non-drive-in releases. He takes a wonderful restoration, a 50GB disc and has the encode set at a higher bitrate. His restoration work is looking really good. Now, I can't say he won't backslide in the future to a 25GB, sad-looking retread, with an encode to rival David & Lisa (I still feel so sorry that happened to Walt), but, I doubt he will. He seems as obsessed with high quality as all of us are. Zombie Nightmare may or may not sell, given that most of the people who really want it already have it from Bill's edition or one of the German editions, and no slipcover in the world is going to make them double dip, even with a higher bitrate. It would have to be combined with another film or spectacular hour and a half of special features, to get them to take a look, and a slipcover. But Dead Pit is new. The Mirror Mirror series is new. Ator, which I hated so much I can't even describe the disappointment at seeing all that fabric, all over every single attractive man in the film, is also new to Blu. Combine David's thirst for quality with new-to-blu releases, and then add slipcovers on top of it, high quality slipcovers, I think he will have a high volume of sales.

Now, set times for putting those new titles up, so we can all plan ahead, would mean even more sales, but that's a different issue. As to slipcovers, we all know they have their place in the marketing schemes of our favourite companies, but, I wouldn't count Dark Force out for film choice, given how well they've done so far, when it comes to quality and "new to Blu-ray" film selections.

As to Bill and JBD, I didn't hate the artwork. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it. A double dip can be a very difficult thing to pull the trigger on, when there is competition for other films, especially from the same vendor. I got a lot of people to buy Blackout and only one told me he also got JBD, because we all have to be careful about where we put our money. I still think that film will sell. It will just sell over time, not immediately.

[kraven]

If u can figure out how to get to the point I'd consider reading your post, but it's ridiculous to think people are gonna sit and read as you go on and on. Especially when most of the time you're talking out your ass.

[kraven]

Originally Posted by El_Fez

What's the going rate for that service?

. . . .asking for a friend.

Sliding scale. Call for a quote!

[DaveyJoe]

Originally Posted by kraven

Sliding scale. Call for a quote!

Might need some glow in the dark paraphernalia for this action...

[whedon]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe

I would wait for the 50% sale in May or November if it wasn't for the slips. There's no question that VS is moving titles much faster because of the limited slips they recently introduced.

I'm not saying that they aren't an incentive to purchase earlier but some labels seem to think that a slipover is reason enough to purchase a release. Look at df and all we hear is slipcover this, slipcover that and a constant hyping of how much this slip will be worth on ebay in years to come. If VS stopped slips tomorrow they may see a slow down in sales in the release months but they'd still be in business as we they're all about the films with the slips being secondary.