Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You keep going back to what I call Minimums, Technology moves fast and there are a vast amount of Streaming Providers competing to offer you their Services. The ones that will remain will offer what the public wants, that will be Disc Like Quality. I keep saying Servers because that is what Streaming Providers have, Media Servers and they can be put anywhere to run remotely. So if you say it can be done, don't you think it will be? That's the biggest mistake people have always made, oh it will never happen it will take Forever.......Then Tomorrow Comes!

This is a load of nonsense. You’re just treading water. Fact of the matter is that, right now, no streaming service delivers quality that is as good or better than a disc, and it doesn’t make a difference if you have the best internet connection in the world.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys are, and you're the public, so what makes you think that it's any different? You're right to a point, the average person doesn't know Disc Quality all they want is to watch their Movie at an uninterrupted Quality. That's why DVD Quality is still King, the Average Person has no clue!

You answered your own question there. Well done.

[PaulMe]

Originally Posted by Naiera

This is a load of nonsense. You’re just treading water. Fact of the matter is that, right now, no streaming service delivers quality that is as good or better than a disc, and it doesn’t make a difference if you have the best internet connection in the world.

If you're comparing

Streaming SD to DVD
Streaming HD to BD
Streaming UHD to UBD (you can guess what I mean)

The disk options are definitely better is true. But if comparing older generation disks with the next level steaming options quality is certainly improved. The the most part...

Streaming HD > DVD
Streaming UHD > BD

Would I trade disks for streaming only, no. Though it is a nice supplement for when I want to rent something, or view something at a friend's house.

Streaming has some definite limitations by being dependent on other companies, the ISP and streaming service. You're really at the mercy of either to be able to view your movies. Additional, I can't really trust that the streaming services or libraries will remain in service (such as UV...)

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I was Streaming from Servers decades ago when I would back-up my Blu-rays and DVD's. So I knew that Streaming from a Server could produce Disc Quality under the right conditions.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

You were streaming Blu-Ray back ups decades (plural) ago? A format that came out in 2006? Do you have a time machine, and gave this technology to your younger self?

And DVDs have been around for just slightly more than 20 years. So sure, [i]technically[i] that is plural, but just barely. And for your statement to hold up, you would have had to adopt the format pretty much when it launched, and would have to start ripping the discs to hard drives right away.

And even if you were doing those things from the get-go (which I doubt would fully be the case), you're still making it sound like it's been longer than it actually has been.

Yes, I'm an Old Codge I go back to the DOS days where Directories and Files made up everything. The DVD came out around 1995, and I started to make up Back-up Copies around 2000. That's why I say Discs are just a Storage Device. Have you ever looked at a DVD it has a couple of Directories with VOB Files that you can load to a Server and Stream to your TV. I had a Buffalo DVD Player with an RJ45 connection that played the VOB Files from my Network. Like you said Blu-ray came out in 2006, and I Backed those Discs but it was easier to play the Discs than fool around with the Files and Store them. That's why when Streaming came I was all for it.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by alchav21

That's why I say Discs are just a Storage Device.

Most people say this because, you know, that's what they are.

Originally Posted by alchav21

That's why when Streaming came I was all for it.

You obviously still aren't able to grasp what we've been trying to tell you.

[lokie56]

I just want to say I think it is hilarious that the OP just posted the question and has essentially left the thread for everyone to just "argue out/discuss this" Like someone lighting the match to a firework and just running away

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The DVD came out around 1995, and I started to make up Back-up Copies around 2000.

So, that would be about 18 years ago, which is still a couple of years shy of two decades, the minimum amount needed for your statement about doing this "for decades" to hold true.

[maverick22]

Not one responded to the thread I started. I was wondering if UHD with DV streaming is better than BD (Hangover in particular which is not available on UHD disc).

General thoughts on which is better? Thanks

[bdmckinl]

Originally Posted by maverick22

Not one responded to the thread I started. I was wondering if UHD with DV streaming is better than BD (Hangover in particular which is not available on UHD disc).

General thoughts on which is better? Thanks

I’ve been curious about this too. Someone earlier said that in general UHD streaming is superior to regular blu-ray. Do others concur with this? Thanks.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by bdmckinl

I’ve been curious about this too. Someone earlier said that in general UHD streaming is superior to regular blu-ray. Do others concur with this? Thanks.

To my eyes, I concur.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by maverick22

Not one responded to the thread I started. I was wondering if UHD with DV streaming is better than BD (Hangover in particular which is not available on UHD disc).

General thoughts on which is better? Thanks

itunes uhd and blu ray are pretty close to eachother in bitrate and quality. Blu ray tends to sound and look a little better to me but part of thats due to most hdr jobs being gimmicky and not that impressive in my opinion.

It really just depends on how sensitive you are to compression and sharpening. You can get a bit more color but you sacrifice a little bit of quality

[bdmckinl]

Thank you veritas.

You mention that sound-wise they are about equivalent too. Do UHD streams utilize lossless audio?

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes, I'm an Old Codge I go back to the DOS days where Directories and Files made up everything. The DVD came out around 1995, and I started to make up Back-up Copies around 2000. That's why I say Discs are just a Storage Device. Have you ever looked at a DVD it has a couple of Directories with VOB Files that you can load to a Server and Stream to your TV. I had a Buffalo DVD Player with an RJ45 connection that played the VOB Files from my Network. Like you said Blu-ray came out in 2006, and I Backed those Discs but it was easier to play the Discs than fool around with the Files and Store them. That's why when Streaming came I was all for it.

As an add on to my previous reply...

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

So, that would be about 18 years ago, which is still a couple of years shy of two decades, the minimum amount needed for your statement about doing this "for decades" to hold true.

...I have to laugh at how much this reply of your missed the point of my post earlier post that you were responding to. I wasn't questioning the general ability to do this, reasoning for doing so, nor was I even remotely disputing that a full quality rip of a DVD or Blu-Ray from a disc to a hard drive/personal server would be the same quality of file.

I was questioning the stated amount of time that you said you have been doing this, which fell short of the bare minimum needed for the time frame to line up. That's the point that you failed to address (and was the only point that I was trying to make in my response to you).

But in regards to the point that you are making, of course the quality will remain the same if you rip a DVD or Blu-Ray to a hard drive at it's full original file size. Do you honestly think that I don't understand that? Do you honestly think that most everyone else who still collects discs and has been involved in these discussions doesn't understand that?

Legalities aside, I'm sure many people who still prefer purchasing discs probably do that, at least with some of their favorite, most rewatched titles. But they still opt to buy the disc for the myriad of reasons that have been stated before. And in the event of a hard drive crashing, they will still have the discs to either rip again or to just watch the movie directly from. They are still in control of their collection, and still have the full benefits that physical media provides in that sense.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Naiera

Most people say this because, you know, that's what they are.

Yup! Has anyone actually denied that's what discs are?

You obviously still aren't able to grasp what we've been trying to tell you.

Well, this is the guy who goes on non-stop about fiber and the physical aspects of the equipment/infrasructure needed for streaming, repeatedly referencing his work in the industry (oh excuse me... The Industry.... apparently randomly capitalizing certain words mid sentence matters for some reason)...

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys forget I worked in The Industry and setup Networks and LAN's for Companies like Oracle. Yes, typically a LAN is in a Home, but it can also be on a Campus or Community. I have setup Home Servers, but a Server is one that Serves Local Computers. They are not hard to setup, all you need is Storage and Access. Nothing Magic or FM!

But then when people make points about file sizes, compression, bit rates, and so forth, we get - like replies such as this:

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise.

Apparently talking about compression is "too technical."

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by bdmckinl

Thank you veritas.

You mention that sound-wise they are about equivalent too. Do UHD streams utilize lossless audio?

No.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by veritas

itunes uhd and blu ray are pretty close to eachother in bitrate and quality. Blu ray tends to sound and look a little better to me but part of thats due to most hdr jobs being gimmicky and not that impressive in my opinion.

It really just depends on how sensitive you are to compression and sharpening. You can get a bit more color but you sacrifice a little bit of quality

Not really close. Disc is double the bitrate normally. As for audio, different league.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

So, that would be about 18 years ago, which is still a couple of years shy of two decades, the minimum amount needed for your statement about doing this "for decades" to hold true.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

...I have to laugh at how much this reply of your missed the point of my post earlier post that you were responding to. I wasn't questioning the general ability to do this, reasoning for doing so, nor was I even remotely disputing that a full quality rip of a DVD or Blu-Ray from a disc to a hard drive/personal server would be the same quality of file.

I was questioning the stated amount of time that you said you have been doing this, which fell short of the bare minimum needed for the time frame to line up. That's the point that you failed to address (and was the only point that I was trying to make in my response to you).

But in regards to the point that you are making, of course the quality will remain the same if you rip a DVD or Blu-Ray to a hard drive at it's full original file size. Do you honestly think that I don't understand that? Do you honestly think that most everyone else who still collects discs and has been involved in these discussions doesn't understand that?

Legalities aside, I'm sure many people who still prefer purchasing discs probably do that, at least with some of their favorite, most rewatched titles. But they still opt to buy the disc for the myriad of reasons that have been stated before. And in the event of a hard drive crashing, they will still have the discs to either rip again or to just watch the movie directly from. They are still in control of their collection, and still have the full benefits that physical media provides in that sense.

I know I fell short of a couple of Decades, but I know it was a long time. As for the Rips being the same Disc Like Quality on a Local Server, I'm sure most would agree. My main point is that those same Files that are read from a Disc are Streamed to your TV the same way as from a Server, Local or otherwise. Streams and Codec are always improving, and Streaming Providers that last will give you that Disc Like Quality.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Not really close. Disc is double the bitrate normally. As for audio, different league.

Closer than you suggest. Double the bitrate definitely does not mean double the perceived quality. You will likely be able to tell some difference between the two but at high enough bitrates it becomes difficult to discern any difference at all.

The audio sitch is definitely different between disc and streaming. If you (or your setup) demand the best audio bitstream, disc is the only thing that will deliver it. Some streaming providers offer Dolby Atmos audio so that may also make a difference.

[veritas]

So do iTunes or vudu use h.265 video encodes yet? Or some other high efficiency encoder? If they used a high efficiency encoder on 4k uhd streams that would make them a lot more competitive when you account for that in mb/s.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Closer than you suggest. Double the bitrate definitely does not mean double the perceived quality. You will likely be able to tell some difference between the two but at high enough bitrates it becomes difficult to discern any difference at all.

The audio sitch is definitely different between disc and streaming. If you (or your setup) demand the best audio bitstream, disc is the only thing that will deliver it. Some streaming providers offer Dolby Atmos audio so that may also make a difference.

It’s normally darker scenes in my experience that trips up Digital. Also rapid camera pans or movement. Bright scenes always fared quite well on my Itunes rentals. I know the 4K titles have a much higher bitrate but I can imagine that’s still the case.