Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, for reasons I have already stated.

Well, then you’re already wrong, because digital has improved and will continue to do so. Your theories about the future can’t overwrite reality. Digital is improving whether you like it or not.

I’m not knocking physical, though. Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray is still better than digital overall (especially in the audio department), but to say digital hasn’t improved or won’t improve is to be stubbornly contrarian.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What you guys don't understand, is Digital HD Lovers don't feel that they are losing quality. We keep telling you with the right set up and Bandwidth, the quality is getting Disc Like. Having a huge collection of Physical is not unusual, a lot of us still have Discs too. If you really think about it, do you go back and watch all your Movies completely. I still have DVD's in shrink wrap, and I'm sure a lot of you too. Until you guys have the right set up and Bandwidth, don't go by Stats alone!

You do know most of us have high bandwidth connections and probably better set ups then you and the thing is we can see/hear the difference between disc and digital. In most cases I can even see quality differences between regular blu rays and 4k streams (blu ray still looks better).

As far as movies you don't want to go back and re watch or ever watch that are digital don't you wish you could sell them? Just last week I sold vol 1 of gundam unicorn for 18 and prordered the complete gundam unicorn collection for $37 that's something you cant ever do with digital.

That's the biggest difference between physical and digital. you own physical and you can buy and sell it on the used market but you simply cant sell stuff from your digital collection.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by acroyear2

Tangentially related but Best Buy is planning to pull all audio CDs from their stores by July (with Target taking stringent action on CD sales).

For me, the most amazing thing in the article is this:

"While it says it's planning to pull out CDs, Best Buy will continue to carry vinyl for the next two years, keeping a commitment it made to vendors."

After buying my first CD player and CD ("Brothers in Arms" by the Dire Straits, one of the first fully digitally mastered albums) in the 1980s and hearing the amazing audio quality compared to vinyl, I would have never dreamed that vinyl would one day still be around after CD is disappearing. Well done, good old crackling LP with your crooked frequency response.

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

For me, the most amazing thing in the article is this:

"While it says it's planning to pull out CDs, Best Buy will continue to carry vinyl for the next two years, keeping a commitment it made to vendors."

After buying my first CD player and CD ("Brothers in Arms" by the Dire Straits, one of the first fully digitally mastered albums) in the 1980s and hearing the amazing audio quality compared to vinyl, I would have never dreamed that vinyl would one day still be around after CD is disappearing. Well done, good old crackling LP with your crooked frequency response.

I miss the sound of the needle hitting the record myself. I still have my old turn table with a diamond head needle. I had a great collection of LP's back in the day that mysteriously "disappeared" when my parents and I went back stateside. I'm hoping whomever my folks gave them enjoyed and took care of them.

[The_Donster]

As far as the constant bandwidth talk? I posted these states in this thread and don't have a clue on how much of this my set up uses in all honesty. I just know I've got the family on the 2.4 ghz and my room on the 5 ghz. None one of us seem to have any problems. Whether that's a disc or a streaming

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Here's my stats:

Hardlined:

2.4 ghz
0 Ping? 95.67 mbps Download 12.14 mbps Upload

Wireless:

2.4 ghz
12 ms Ping 91.7 mbps Download 12.0 Upload

5 ghz
11 ms Ping 299 mbps Download and 12.5 Upload

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

For me, the most amazing thing in the article is this:

"While it says it's planning to pull out CDs, Best Buy will continue to carry vinyl for the next two years, keeping a commitment it made to vendors."

After buying my first CD player and CD ("Brothers in Arms" by the Dire Straits, one of the first fully digitally mastered albums) in the 1980s and hearing the amazing audio quality compared to vinyl, I would have never dreamed that vinyl would one day still be around after CD is disappearing. Well done, good old crackling LP with your crooked frequency response.

Most people think CD's are better because there is no crackling. True audiophiles (I am not one, but do still have a turntable and vinyl at the ready) will tell there is a difference. With CD's you are missing bits and pieces of the music that you get with analog vinyl. And they are correct.

There is lossless music now that equals the quality of analog where you don't have any compression, but it really hasn't taken off. There are even streaming services that support it, but cost extra.

Going back to crackling, if you treat your vinyl with care, there is no crackling.

*

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Most people think CD's are better because there is no crackling. True audiophiles (I am not one, but do still have a turntable and vinyl at the ready) will tell there is a difference. With CD's you are missing bits and pieces of the music that you get with analog vinyl. And they are correct.

No they are not. It's fine if you like vinyl sound better, but it is objectively less accurate (by a lot).

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

No they are not. It's fine if you like vinyl sound better, but it is objectively less accurate (by a lot).

Umm,, yes they are. CD's, MP3, even radio stations are compressed music.

This explains the resurgence in Vinyl.

https://www.cnet.com/news/compressio...ng-your-music/

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[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Umm,, yes they are. CD's, MP3, even radio stations are compressed music.

This explains the resurgence in Vinyl.

https://www.cnet.com/news/compressio...ng-your-music/

Nonsense. This article is about dynamic range compression, which is caused by bad mastering and affects many vinyl records just as much. BTW, LPs have a maximum dynamic range of about 65dB, while CDs have 96dB ...

[The_Donster]

Record vs CDs'...Well, at least we have something new to argue about

[whipnet]

The answer lies in the difference between analog and digital recordings. A vinyl record is an analog recording, and CDs and DVDs are digital recordings. Original sound is analog by definition. A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).

This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps. Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

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[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Record vs CDs'...Well, at least we have something new to argue about

In a sense this is a better fit for the thread title than Blu-ray vs. streaming/download, since Blu-rays are just as digital as the latter.

[bladerunner1]

Originally Posted by alchav21

What you guys don't understand, is Digital HD Lovers don't feel that they are losing quality. We keep telling you with the right set up and Bandwidth, the quality is getting Disc Like. Having a huge collection of Physical is not unusual, a lot of us still have Discs too. If you really think about it, do you go back and watch all your Movies completely. I still have DVD's in shrink wrap, and I'm sure a lot of you too. Until you guys have the right set up and Bandwidth, don't go by Stats alone!

Leave me out i use both and have stated so in this thread.

[Trace Buster Buster]

Hard Eight is one of those instances where the dvd is like $30 and out of print but on amazon video it's like $13 for the HD digital version. I went ahead and bought the digital version because I couldn't justify the extra cost for a physical copy. Had they been the same price I probably would've bought the inferior dvd to have a physical copy.

[Integra1995]

Originally Posted by Star Lord

Physical. All day every day.

Me too.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by whipnet

The answer lies in the difference between analog and digital recordings. A vinyl record is an analog recording, and CDs and DVDs are digital recordings. Original sound is analog by definition. A digital recording takes snapshots of the analog signal at a certain rate (for CDs it is 44,100 times per second) and measures each snapshot with a certain accuracy (for CDs it is 16-bit, which means the value must be one of 65,536 possible values).

This means that, by definition, a digital recording is not capturing the complete sound wave. It is approximating it with a series of steps.

This is a common misconception among laymen without an engineering background. The sampling theorem shows that bandwidth-limited analog signals can be *perfectly* reconstructed from the digital samples as long as the sampling rate is high enough. There are no "steps" in the resulting analog signal after D/A conversion and low-pass filter.

Here's another kicker for you: The vast majority of music recordings have been digitally processed for over 20 years. Almost all vinyl records since the 1990s are being pressed from digital masters. If something was "lost" in the digital representation, it would still be "lost" on the record.

Some sounds that have very quick transitions, such as a drum beat or a trumpet's tone, will be distorted because they change too quickly for the sample rate.

The analog signal is fed through a low-pass filter (with a cut-off frequency higher than what the human ear can hear, and significantly higher than what vinyl records can reproduce) before digitization with a sampling rate twice as high. There are no signals that are "too fast" for the sampling rate.

A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost.

On the contrary. Limitations of the mechanical recording and playback mechanisms severely reduce the accuracy of the signal. This is a fact that can be proven both mathematically and empirically, no matter what self-proclaimed golden ears claim.

[Vilya]

Vinyl is a pain in the ass. It does not sound better in theory and certainly not in practice. I am as happy to be rid of my vinyl records as I am of teenage acne.

There is NO way to keep vinyl in pristine condition; it always has some noise present in the playback. All of the expensive cleaning fluids and velvet brushes combined with the time to bathe each album each time you use it will not prevent the inevitable noise upon playback.

Records, even with meticulous storage and cleaning, are adversely affected by the tiniest amounts of dust and they are usually warped to some extent. I always heard some pop, crackle, or hiss with every record I ever owned, even the first time out of the jacket. They attract static like mad, too. Make any mistake at any time handling vinyl and you have a permanent defect on top of it all.

The turntable also adds noise of its own from either the belt driven or the direct drive motor. The lightest tonearm with the finest diamond stylus still shaves off tiny pieces of vinyl with each playback, further degrading the record.

They sound worse, always have noise present, impossible to maintain, accident prone, and they still degrade despite your best efforts to care for them. You can have them. The only thing I miss about them is the cool cover art on their large jackets.

[Zu Nim]

I loved the jackets and liner notes. It always felt like art in your hands. But vinyl is best left for hipsters. I lived it once, never again.

Brothers in Arms was one of my earlier CDs as well. And one of the first that had the coveted DDD SPARS code.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

This is a common misconception among laymen without an engineering background. The sampling theorem shows that bandwidth-limited analog signals can be *perfectly* reconstructed from the digital samples as long as the sampling rate is high enough. There are no "steps" in the resulting analog signal after D/A conversion and low-pass filter.

Here's another kicker for you: The vast majority of music recordings have been digitally processed for over 20 years. Almost all vinyl records since the 1990s are being pressed from digital masters.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Vinyl is a pain in the ass. It does not sound better in theory and certainly not in practice. I am as happy to be rid of my vinyl records as I am of teenage acne.

There is NO way to keep vinyl in pristine condition; it always has some noise present in the playback. All of the expensive cleaning fluids and velvet brushes combined with the time to bathe each album each time you use it will not prevent the inevitable noise upon playback.

Records, even with meticulous storage and cleaning, are adversely affected by the tiniest amounts of dust and they are usually warped to some extent. I always heard some pop, crackle, or hiss with every record I ever owned, even the first time out of the jacket. They attract static like mad, too. Make any mistake at any time handling vinyl and you have a permanent defect on top of it all.

The turntable also adds noise of its own from either the belt driven or the direct drive motor. The lightest tonearm with the finest diamond stylus still shaves off tiny pieces of vinyl with each playback, further degrading the record.

They sound worse, always have noise present, impossible to maintain, accident prone, and they still degrade despite your best efforts to care for them. You can have them. The only thing I miss about them is the cool cover art on their large jackets.

Bottom Line is that Technology moves on, you can hang on to the old but it will still be Old. Discs had a good run, but they are coming to an end. Yes they may be around for a long time, but in reality they are Obsolete. Streaming HD is here to stay, and it will soon eclipse Disc. Disc will be around for a while, but in all reality it's already out. I keep telling you guys Cinema Theaters already use Hard Drives for their Movies, so what's to stop Digital Movies on Servers. Don't you see the writing on The Wall!

[PaulMe]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Bottom Line is that Technology moves on, you can hang on to the old but it will still be Old. Discs had a good run, but they are coming to an end. Yes they may be around for a long time, but in reality they are Obsolete. Streaming HD is here to stay, and it will soon eclipse Disc. Disc will be around for a while, but in all reality it's already out. I keep telling you guys Cinema Theaters already use Hard Drives for their Movies, so what's to stop Digital Movies on Servers. Don't you see the writing on The Wall!

The limiting factor isn't the technology, I doubt anyone really disagrees with that.

What is limiting is the services between you and the streaming source. The ISP, and backbone providers are all watching the profits from streaming services, and are asking for a larger share, even though it isn't special data in anyway.

Additionally many people can't even get an isp to give them an sufficient connection for stream.

Disks are going to be around for a while still, just not on the same level as when they were the only real distribution method.