Fantastic Four (2015)

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

It wasn't the reaction from fans, but parents (and advertising partners like McDonalds) objecting to the film's dark imagery and violence which got WB's attention.

Well, that's a good thing in my book, because Burton took it way too far. Even Nolan avoided that trap with "The Dark Knight", keeping most of the disturbing aspects implied. I haven't seen "Batman Returns" in several years, and have no plans to ever buy it on home video. Burton did some great early work with the 1989 original and "Beetlejuice", but he really went nuts after that. I hope the upcoming "Beetlejuice 2" goes back to his earlier style.

In my opinion, I think Burton's ability to go hog wild on Batman Returns compared to the first is what improves it: if there's any superhero property which can work with a dark, whimsical, gothic fairytale interpretation, it's Batman.

There was nothing whimsical about "Batman Returns". It was the polar opposite of the 1960s TV series, which is not a compliment. For all the idiotic lunacy of that show, Burton's second film presented an ultra-dark, permanently depressing vision of Gotham, like "Edward Scissorhands" on steroids. That's not what comes to my mind when I think of Batman; I prefer the more balanced approach, like the '89 film, "Forever", and "Begins".

[jamesdevil]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Josh Trank seems to have fallen into the same trap as M.Night did. Producing a good movie and then seeing his future films crash and tumble.

That is not what happened with M. Night.

Unbreakable: $248 mil ww, 68% on RT
Signs: $408 mil ww, 74% on RT

It wasn't until The Village that he started spiraling down.

[benderal]

I have seen every Marvel based movie in the theater since Blade. And despite a few clunkers in that mix this is the first one I won't be seeing in a theater. I will wait to rent this movie.

[JeffTheMovieGuy]

Originally Posted by jamesdevil

That is not what happened with M. Night.

Unbreakable: $248 mil ww, 68% on RT
Signs: $408 mil ww, 74% on RT

It wasn't until The Village that he started spiraling down.

IMO Lady in the Water was the fall $42,285,169

I'd love to see a directors cut of the Fantastic Four now just to see how great Trank's visions would be.

[jamesdevil]

Originally Posted by JeffTheMovieGuy

IMO Lady in the Water was the fall $42,285,169

I'd love to see a directors cut of the Fantastic Four now just to see how great Trank's visions would be.

I said The Village because that was the first time the critical consensus turned but Lady in the Water was definitely the first time the two coalesced.

[doctorD]

For me the movie was not Jonah Hex or Cat Woman bad. It definitely felt incomplete...an additional half hour plus more action would have helped a lot. If the rumors are true regarding behind the scenes conflicts that explains why the movie turned out the way it did. Trank can try but there is no way he can distance himself from this movie...Fox is responsible too. I would love to have seen the complete movie the way it was expected, but I doubt that is even possible.

With all that I give this 2.5 rounded up to 3/5.

[Infernal King]

Batman Returns is the only flawless superhero movie.

[dissention]

I don't want to live in a world where people dislike Batman Returns. Come closer to me so I can go all Cobblepot on your noses, you'll never turn them up again.

[Infernal King]

Some behind the scenes trivia I included at the end of my Letterboxd review of Batman Returns:

One of the crew members attended several theatrical exhibitions and sadistically enjoyed some of the audience's reactions: children crying; people feeling like they had been punched in the stomach or mugged; parents angry at what they had just seen. Despite the merchandising frenzy, this Batman entry was never truly intended for children. I share in his amusement. As a matter of fact, Burton attended a meeting with Warner Bros. execs to discuss ideas for the next installment of the franchise. After awhile he straight-up asked, "You don't really want me to make another one, do you?" The meeting ended soon after.

Delicious.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by dissention

I don't want to live in a world where people dislike Batman Returns. Come closer to me so I can go all Cobblepot on your noses, you'll never turn them up again.

I'm laughing right now just posting this. Batman Returns is hilarious.

[Lt. Brannigan]

Just got back from seeing this, here are some quick thoughts. Also SPOILERS AHOY!

The tone was all over the place, it simply couldn't make up its mind about what type of movie it wanted to be. Was it a movie about a boy achieving his dreams? was it a romantic comedy? Was it a sci-fi movie about discovering new worlds? Or was it another sci fi allegory about how man is ruining the earth and must be destroyed or learn from their mistakes? Also it throws in a little fast and furious for good measure.

The scenes establishing Reed and Ben's childhood friendship seemed completely unneeded and would have made for a fun family movie if they expanded upon it. That was the most compelling part of the movie to me. Also Homer Simpson was his science teacher in school, Homer was a jerk.

Kata Mara was horribly miscast, she was very cold and distant in this. There was no sense of family between her and Michael B. Jordan save for one or two lines of dialogue establishing the relationship. Also there was no chemistry between her and Miles Teller, which leaves one to wonder why the would ever get married in the first place. She seemed to be acting in another movie entirely. And her Sue Storm seems to be incapable of true emotion. Bottom line, Kate doesn't seem to have much chemistry with anyone in the movie.

Miles Teller was far too smug as Reed and lacked any type of charm that is required of a lead for this type of movie. However his friendship with Ben rings true and is one of the better parts of the movie. And it's in these moments that Miles' Reed comes across as a likeable person.

Michael B. Jordan does a complete disservice to one of the most interesting characters of Marvel he makes him bland and uninteresting. It's almost as if he is just playing the character by the numbers and not bothering to fully embrace the hotheaded arrogant character and make him his own. His hotheadedness in this movie is displayed by him drag racing in city streets in a scene that lasts maybe 5 minutes and then butting heads with his father afterwards. Then we are left with nothing distinctive about him. Also the movie doesn't explore the fun dynamic between Johnny and Grimm.

And now onto Jamie Bell who is the true star of the movie. Despite my thinking that he was a horrible choice for the role of Ben Grimm, he completely nails the role and makes it his own, it's not quite the Grimm I know from the comics but he still shines and makes far more of his role than his co-stars. As I mentioned previously his chemistry with Miles Teller is the highlight of the movie. In many ways, Grimm is the most human of the four and the most likeable. I would love to see Jamie Bell continue with the character. He's easily the best part of the movie.

Toby Kebbell is completely wasted as Victor Von Doom, pre accident he was a fascinating and charming character despite being a jerk. After the accident he becomes a generic bad with plans on destroying the Earth. Also he never once resembles the classic Doom that I keep hoping to see on screen, instead he looks like a glow in the dark crash dummy. Once he transforms he loses every trace of personality that made his character intriguing in the first place.

One of the most frustrating things about this movie is that the Four rarely interact as a group except during the finale. Because of this you never get a sense of family or camaraderie. Sue and Johnny hardly have scenes together, Johnny and Ben only have one meaningful interaction in the movie and even that's a forced scene trying desperately to establish their relationship.

The dialogue was some of the most painful I have heard in a longtime and it seemed the actors had just given up on the movie before they had even finished shooting.

And finally,

[Show spoiler]the death of Franklin Richards was pointless and delivered emotional payoff. In fact it was practically forgotten by the end of the movie.

2/5 simply for Jamie Bell as the Thing who is far better than this movie deserved.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

Some behind the scenes trivia I included at the end of my Letterboxd review of Batman Returns:

[Show spoiler]

Delicious.

Those reactions totally don't make sense to me. I was mesmerized the first time I saw it as a kid, and would watch it over and over obsessively.

Admittedly I may not have been the best example of a normal child.

[LuckyDragon]

I saw Batman Returns in a theatre when I was nine. Loved it.

People are pussies.

[SilentNight]

just watched it. Not NEAR as bad as the reviews make it out to be. It does feel like 20th Century Fox bungled it and not the director. After listening to Kevin Smith's podcast with the director, Josh Trank, he seems like a legit guy and personally I can't see why Fox didn't let him have his own vision as his stuff was easily the best in the movie. His stuff I imagine being the first half. Then.....someone decided to not include the second act. Still, not a total waste and I enjoyed it with the very low expectations I had.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, that's a good thing in my book, because Burton took it way too far. Even Nolan avoided that trap with "The Dark Knight", keeping most of the disturbing aspects implied. I haven't seen "Batman Returns" in several years, and have no plans to ever buy it on home video. Burton did some great early work with the 1989 original and "Beetlejuice", but he really went nuts after that. I hope the upcoming "Beetlejuice 2" goes back to his earlier style.

There was nothing whimsical about "Batman Returns". It was the polar opposite of the 1960s TV series, which is not a compliment. For all the idiotic lunacy of that show, Burton's second film presented an ultra-dark, permanently depressing vision of Gotham, like "Edward Scissorhands" on steroids. That's not what comes to my mind when I think of Batman; I prefer the more balanced approach, like the '89 film, "Forever", and "Begins".

Batman Returns is a masterpiece, full stop.

And sincerely whenever I hear fanboys that said that Forever was better because it was less Burton I have to resist the impulse to facepalm.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Det. Bullock

Batman Returns is a masterpiece, full stop.

And sincerely whenever I hear fanboys that said that Forever was better because it was less Burton I have to resist the impulse to facepalm.

Forever still has the distinction of being the worst Batman film that came out after 1988. This movie looks like a film-making masterpiece in comparison.

[LegacyCosts]

Holy hell I wish we had gotten more burton batman films. Kids crying at the theatre during returns? Brilliant

[Mandalorian]

All this Burton Batman talk has gotten me in the mood to do a double feature this week. I like both, but still think the first is better.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Mandalorian

All this Burton Batman talk has gotten me in the mood to do a double feature this week. I like both, but still think the first is better.

I think Returns is a superior film, but the first one has Nicholson and Prince, you can't go wrong with that.

[Al_The_Strange]

Wow, really? Batman Returns had that kind of reaction?

I was a kid when that came out; didn't see it in the theaters, but I remember all the merchandising and ads. I primarily remember loving the ramped-up action. When we finally saw it on LaserDisc (), I remember finding the opening scene and the Catwoman origins scenes very sad, but I never once thought that was bad; I still think those are powerful and invoking scenes, and I love the film all the more for it. Sure, the film is dark, but it still has that Burton-esque cartooniness to it (what with the psycho clown gang, the abandoned zoo, dark humor galore, crazy gadgets, etc), and I think it works perfectly. I never once thought of it as adult-rated material; mature maybe, but parents need to chill. Older kids can dig it just fine.

Reminds me of what I heard about people reacting to Conquest for Planet of the Apes. Now that one I can understand; it's pretty bloody and violent.

Back on topic, I might see FF tomorrow...or not...we'll see...