Star Trek: TNG - Season 2 Dec 4

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by singhcr

There are times that I think that too because so much of the content I watch is 16:9 or wider. Just remember that TNG on Blu-ray is shown as it was meant to be seen. You are not missing anything and if it was shown in widescreen you would be missing something.

That is why I said what I said:

I REALLLLLLLLY wish they had filmed this in a way that could be expanded to 16/9

The film (IIRC from the first season bonus material) could support 16x9, but there are too many non-show elements visible (mics, lights etc) outside of the 4x3 to use it.

So, I wish they had filmed it in a way that could be expanded to 16x9.







The last part about remembering "I'm not missing anything" is what takes the few minutes to wrap my mind around every time... In any case, I watch in 4x3, rather than zoomed or stretched because I am a stickler for not missing or distorting content

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by DasRetroKid

When it comes to other older shows I watch, be it on NetFlix or DVD/Blu that are 4x3, the fact it is not widescreen irks me for a moment, despite my Samsung having Dynamic contrast and the side bars being pretty black. Its a moment at the start of the show where I go "damn I wish this was widescreen" and then I get over it.

With TNG however I don't even flinch. Perhaps the content is so cool / engaging (most episodes anyways hah) to me that I don't really care or what not, but it doesn't bother me at all. Of course if there was some magical way to make TNG widescreen without losing anything, I'd be all for it. As already said, we are watching it as it was intended to be seen and that is important to me.

Changing course a bit : I'm on Disc 5 now of Season 2. I had forgotten just how much of an improvement in storytelling, pacing, character depth, development, and chemistry season 2 was in contrast to season 1. You can really sense the "formula for success" start coming together I think. For example the chemistry / bond between Picard and Riker feels much more real here. I also have to say that when I originally watched TNG in its original run, I hated Pulaski and wanted Crusher back. Re-watching now though I think she is great and reminds a lot of McCoy from TOS.

Honestly, what kills me and gets my mind on 16x9 every time is that the opening of the disc shows a 16x9 opening credits sequence, almost like a "look how it could be, now here is 4x3" slap in the face.

And then after getting into the episode I get over it...



Also I HATED the doc in every format (original run, rerun, DVD) and dont mind her as much now... still an abrasive hag, but reasonably well done, especially this early; I also like how the grew her dynamic with the other members of the crew...

[Geoff D]

I've never minded Pulaski, nor Wes for that matter. It probably helps that I first watched the show as a kid, so I didn't care too much then for characterisation and whatnot. Revisiting it now some 25 years later means that I haven't carried any prejudice with me regarding certain characters, and I'm loving every second of it.

[Captain Mal]

Originally Posted by ThePhantomOak

Also I HATED the doc in every format (original run, rerun, DVD) and dont mind her as much now... still an abrasive hag...

I don't care much for the doc now or when I watched these as a kid. Just finished the second season and I think it was a pretty big improvement over season 1. Quite a few episodes that I would like to watch again. Season 1, not so much, but I'll keep it to have a complete collection. Can't wait for season 3! We'll finally be gettin' into the really good stuff.

[DasRetroKid]

I watched "The Emissary" last night and didn't feel it was very good. The plot I thought could have made for an awesome episode, but they spent so much time focusing on Worf and K'Ehleyr that it just felt like a missed opportunity.

That red outfit on Suzie Plakson though. Wow

[Whirlygig]

Not too shabby a price on DeepDiscount right now - $59.11 shipped.
http://www.deepdiscount.com/bluray/S...ATION-SEASON-2

Also good price on S1.

[Scylla]

Originally Posted by benbess

Saw two episodes back to back with my kids last night. The first one, Samaritan Snare, was quite good and very funny at times. The second one, Up the Long Ladder, was rather cringe worthy in quite a few places. It was written by Melinda Snodgrass, who previously wrote the classic episode Measure of a Man, which is the best episode of the whole season imho. My guess is that she worked on Measure for several months, but maybe Ladder was written in a desperate couple of weeks during the writers strike, with some weird assistance from Gene R. too?? Who knows....

I would rate
Samaritan Snare: A-
Up the Long Ladder: C


I suggest that we do like we did for the first season, and post our grades for various episodes. There's a list of the episodes here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ation_episodes

My (highly subjective) season 2 episode grades:

The Child: C+
Where Silence Has Lease: A
Elementary, Dear Data: B+
The Outrageous Okona: C+
Loud as a Whisper: B
The Schizoid Man: A
Unnatural Selection: C
A Matter of Honor: B+
The Measure of a Man: B+
The Dauphin: B
Contagion: A
The Royale: B
Time Squared: A-
The Icarus Factor: B+
Pen Pals: C+
Q Who?: A
Samaritan Snare: B
Up the Long Ladder: C
Manhunt: B
The Emissary: B+
Peak Performance: C+
Shades of Gray: D


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[von_Levi]

Originally Posted by Scylla

My (highly subjective) season 2 episode grades:

The Child: C+
Where Silence Has Lease: A
Elementary, Dear Data: B+
The Outrageous Okona: C+
Loud as a Whisper: B
The Schizoid Man: A
Unnatural Selection: C
A Matter of Honor: B+
The Measure of a Man: B+
The Dauphin: B
Contagion: A
The Royale: B
Time Squared: A-
The Icarus Factor: B+
Pen Pals: C+
Q Who?: A
Samaritan Snare: B
Up the Long Ladder: C
Manhunt: B
The Emissary: B+
Peak Performance: C+
Shades of Gray: D


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"Measure of a Man" only a B+? It's widely regarded as one of the best TNG episodes, and certainly the best of Season 2.

[Disciple of Vedder]

Originally Posted by von_Levi

"Measure of a Man" only a B+? It's widely regarded as one of the best TNG episodes, and certainly the best of Season 2.

Yes, and you rated "Where Silence Has Lease" higher. It's a fun episode, but very clumsily written with some awful dialogue, plus the characters were often acting atypical. In the first fifteen minutes, the bridge crew acts like they have never, ever been privvy to unexplained space phenomena and over-explain what is going on to the audience in a way that makes them look like amateurs. Worf acts like a ridiculous savage for most of the episode (recommending going to Red Alert because the void reminds him of an old Klingon legend about a fabled space monster, going after Riker in the holodeck, becoming incensed on the bridge of the fake Yamato and then growling at Riker). Riker snaps at Picard for no reason on the bridge and Picard initiates auto-destruct, then goes and sits in his quarters. Shouldn't he be on the bridge in a time of crisis? Having said all that, it's a unique and fun episode. But not better than "Measure of a Man."

[Blu Tiger]

Originally Posted by von_Levi

"Measure of a Man" only a B+? It's widely regarded as one of the best TNG episodes, and certainly the best of Season 2.

Ha, I was about to post the exact same thing! "Measure of a Man" is one of my favorite episodes. They played that episode at the movie theater a couple months ago to promote the release of Season 2 on blu. Man, it was cool watching episodes on a large screen.

And only a C+ for "Peak Performance"??? That episode is awesome.

[Whirlygig]

Originally Posted by Scylla

My (highly subjective) season 2 episode grades:

Good idea, here're mine. The Blu image quality made it easier to stand the bad ones, but I'm not going to let that influence me. These are given somewhat relatively, with episodes from all seasons in mind.

The Child: C
Where Silence Has Lease: C
Elementary, Dear Data: B+
The Outrageous Okona: D
Loud as a Whisper: C+
The Schizoid Man: B-
Unnatural Selection: D
A Matter of Honor: B+
The Measure of a Man: A
The Dauphin: C
Contagion: B-
The Royale: C+
Time Squared: C-
The Icarus Factor: B-
Pen Pals: B+
Q Who?: A
Samaritan Snare: B
Up the Long Ladder: C+
Manhunt: C+
The Emissary: B
Peak Performance: A-
Shades of Gray: F

Season GPA: 2.5 = C+

Still the same crappy season, but in mostly-glorious hi-def (with mostly mid-def SFX).

[blonde_devil]

to be fair, i haven't been the biggest fan of "Measure of a Man" either. it has one huge flaw - how can Data be Starfleet properly when he wasn't created by Starfleet? He applied and had to be accepted like anyone else - the episode makes that very clear. He also went through the Academy - the info wasn't just downloaded into him and he left the next day for starship duty. Is Picard Starfleet property? the Enterprise computer is one thing since it is a creation of Starfleet but Data, totally different. I think it is a well done episode but i never could understand why everyone felt Starfleet owned Data. Because of that, i can see a B rating.

[Captain Mal]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

to be fair, i haven't been the biggest fan of "Measure of a Man" either. it has one huge flaw - how can Data be Starfleet properly when he wasn't created by Starfleet? He applied and had to be accepted like anyone else - the episode makes that very clear. He also went through the Academy - the info wasn't just downloaded into him and he left the next day for starship duty. Is Picard Starfleet property? the Enterprise computer is one thing since it is a creation of Starfleet but Data, totally different. I think it is a well done episode but i never could understand why everyone felt Starfleet owned Data. Because of that, i can see a B rating.

He's probably considered Starfleet property because they found him. That's mentioned in the episode, "Datalore".

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Captain Mal

He's probably considered Starfleet property because they found him. That's mentioned in the episode, "Datalore".

they found Worf too and I am pretty sure he isn't property. just seemed a little forced - V'Ger was considered a life-form, those creatues from Farpoint were too. What about Lore? they didn't bother to try and retrieve/deactivate him in season 1. just seems very unlike the Federation/Starfleet to assume they own him because they found him somewhere. same thing with the episode where he creates his daughter. don't get me wrong - it is still a good episode once if you just accept it and go with it like the Chekov/Khan thing.

[DasRetroKid]

I agree, the "Starfleet Property" answer is very flawed.

They have always made it seem like Data "chose" to go into Starfleet and go through the academy after being found. If he was property, why did they let him choose what he wanted to do (free will) and not at that moment force him into service or scientific research programs?

So right from the start someone obviously viewed Data as more of a man then a machine and let him choose what he wanted to do. Then it all somehow became questionable again during the events of "Measure of a Man."

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by DasRetroKid

I agree, the "Starfleet Property" answer is very flawed.

They have always made it seem like Data "chose" to go into Starfleet and go through the academy after being found. If he was property, why did they let him choose what he wanted to do (free will) and not at that moment force him into service or scientific research programs?

So right from the start someone obviously viewed Data as more of a man then a machine and let him choose what he wanted to do. Then it all somehow became questionable again during the events of "Measure of a Man."

I see this as very similar to slavery in US history. Think about it.

Not all slaves were beaten or treated like property per se... but at the end of the day, even if your "owner" didn't treat you like a slave, he still owned you and there were limits to what you could do.

So... they find Data... decide he may even be "alive" by their definitions... they "allow" him to study and go to Starfleet... they "allow" him to serve on a Starship... but the moment it suits them to do something else? That's when they step in to remind him that he is "just" a machine, they found him, they own him, etc.

I think that was part of what they were going at in that episode... that even those in Starfleet who hadn't treated Data poorly in the past, still at their core thought of him as just a glorified machine that when the chips were down, they expected him to do what they wanted or else they would dismantle him. After all, they found him and turned him on.

His friends and crew on the Enterprise didn't think of Data as just a machine. They saw him as a friend and a loyal member of the crew... and that is why it troubled them to see how their fellow Starfleet peers could be so callous when it suited them.

[Scylla]

Originally Posted by Blu Tiger

Ha, I was about to post the exact same thing! "Measure of a Man" is one of my favorite episodes. They played that episode at the movie theater a couple months ago to promote the release of Season 2 on blu. Man, it was cool watching episodes on a large screen.

And only a C+ for "Peak Performance"??? That episode is awesome.

Well, I did say my grades were highly subjective . . On MoaM, I don't give it an A because trial episodes in ST often don't do it for me, though this ep's trial has some great moments. Mostly, though, it's the property argument, as others on this thread have already noted, that has nagged at me for years and has kept me from rating the episode higher. I have a hard time believing the Federation puts much stock in salvage rights.


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[Rixx]

Originally Posted by Scylla

Well, I did say my grades were highly subjective . . On MoaM, I don't give it an A because trial episodes in ST often don't do it for me, though this ep's trial has some great moments. Mostly, though, it's the property argument, as others on this thread have already noted, that has nagged at me for years and has kept me from rating the episode higher. I have a hard time believing the Federation puts much stock in salvage rights.


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You need to watch DS9 season 5 episode 2 (The Ship), Captain Sisko claims salvage rights on a crashed Jem'Hadar ship

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by HDMe

I see this as very similar to slavery in US history. Think about it.

Not all slaves were beaten or treated like property per se... but at the end of the day, even if your "owner" didn't treat you like a slave, he still owned you and there were limits to what you could do.

So... they find Data... decide he may even be "alive" by their definitions... they "allow" him to study and go to Starfleet... they "allow" him to serve on a Starship... but the moment it suits them to do something else? That's when they step in to remind him that he is "just" a machine, they found him, they own him, etc.

I think that was part of what they were going at in that episode... that even those in Starfleet who hadn't treated Data poorly in the past, still at their core thought of him as just a glorified machine that when the chips were down, they expected him to do what they wanted or else they would dismantle him. After all, they found him and turned him on.

His friends and crew on the Enterprise didn't think of Data as just a machine. They saw him as a friend and a loyal member of the crew... and that is why it troubled them to see how their fellow Starfleet peers could be so callous when it suited them.

Oh, i get that. I think the story idea is great but it just seems weird that someone in Starfleet would have that kind of attitude. I could see Romulan or Klingon engineers having that mindset but for Starfleet to think this seems strange. I can even buy Maddox thinking of Data as just a machine since he is an engineer and knows the mechanics of Data but an organization whose mission is to seek out new lifeforms and new civilizations? With all the various lifeforms they had discovered already, you would think Data being property wouldn't even be a thought. He may be a machine but even Picard said humans were machines, just biological and not mechanical. It is a great message to tell, especially when you use such a popular character like Data to really get people but i just feel it is out of place. But it is a personal thing. It is still a well done episode and the point isn't forced. I don't know about you but nothing annoys me more than when a show has a "very special" episode and 30 seconds in begins hitting you over the head with the point of the episode.

[Scylla]

Originally Posted by Rixx

You need to watch DS9 season 5 episode 2 (The Ship), Captain Sisko claims salvage rights on a crashed Jem'Hadar ship

I recall that, but I didn't consider it a serious argument on Sisko's part - just a snappy way of saying "we're taking this ship one way or the other." And as much as I love DS9, I think it's pretty clear the MO of that show's creators (Behr, in particular) is to have DS9 characters operate more pragmatically within the limits of the ST universe, in contrast to TNG.


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