Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Fixed

No, you broke it since Jango was not a CG character.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

There was a lot of wasted potential with the villains in the PT. Maul has like five lines and all his screentime consists of standing around and looking cool or fighting. Dooku is introduced in the last 20 minutes of AOTC and dies in the first 10 of ROTS. Grievous felt like he came out of nowhere in ROTS and died halfway in, while being a completely different kind of character from the badass the cartoon made him out to be.

I have to agree with the people that said Jango was the only "disposable villain" that left them satisfied. In addition to the cool factor he gets a decent amount of dialogue, is of some importance to the plot and gets to live for most of the movie.

That's what concerns me about the new films - is there a larger story that we will see and therefore a villian for all of them or it is just going to me bad guy of the week? At least with the prequels you can say that Palatine was using these guys and that is why we got a new one all the time but even that seems odd.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

That's what concerns me about the new films - is there a larger story that we will see and therefore a villian for all of them or it is just going to me bad guy of the week? At least with the prequels you can say that Palatine was using these guys and that is why we got a new one all the time but even that seems odd.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the villains are handled in the new trilogy. I have a good feeling they'll be much better this time around, but who knows right. Time will tell.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

not sure people would be so forgiving.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the villains are handled in the new trilogy. I have a good feeling they'll be much better this time around, but who knows right. Time will tell.

I hope the villains stick around for all three films so we can get to know them and kind of care about them in all their evilness.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by camper

In all fairness, Maul had less than 5 minutes of total screen time so we really don't know how terrible he could have been.

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

Only less than 5 mins ? that doesnt seem right must be more than that.

Now ill have to time his scenes off the blu tonight to see.

7 minutes 26 seconds:

standing with palps on viewscreen talking to neimoidians = 0:12
talking with palps on the balcony = 0:23
tatooine fight with qui-gon = 1:13
end fight they cut to him 7 times = 5:38

Figured it was more than <5.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I hope the villains stick around for all three films so we can get to know them and kind of care about them in all their evilness.

same here. Hard to really care or dislike someone when they are only there for a few minutes. At least if they talked about someone for a movie and then they showed up it would have been better but they were handled very poorly in 1-3. Hopefully things will be better but with them having different directors for each film, I am not so sure it will happen as you don't want to be stuck with another film's villian so I could see it being a different once each movie. Wait and see. Strangely, I am not nearly as excited about this film as I should be.

[006]

Maul's low screen time helped make him a good villain. You didn't know much about him and then he shows up finally and kills one of the main heroes.

Maul's actions spoke for him, we didn't need to be told he was a badass. This is something mostly missing from the prequels and likely why he is such a favourite.

[MCT]

Originally Posted by 006

Maul's low screen time helped make him a good villain. You didn't know much about him and then he shows up finally and kills one of the main heroes.

Maul's actions spoke for him, we didn't need to be told he was a badass. This is something mostly missing from the prequels and likely why he is such a favourite.

Mystery is a good thing but Lucas literally told us NOTHING about the character. Obi Wan in ANH at least hinted at what made Vader so evil. Maul spoke one line and snarled then died. That is not quality character development.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

There was a lot of wasted potential with the villains in the PT. Maul has like five lines and all his screentime consists of standing around and looking cool or fighting. Dooku is introduced in the last 20 minutes of AOTC and dies in the first 10 of ROTS. Grievous felt like he came out of nowhere in ROTS and died halfway in, while being a completely different kind of character from the badass the cartoon made him out to be.

I have to agree with the people that said Jango was the only "disposable villain" that left them satisfied. In addition to the cool factor he gets a decent amount of dialogue, is of some importance to the plot and gets to live for most of the movie.

It's very clear to me. Lucas did this on purpose. He wants to hold Darth Vader as the most badass villain in the whole saga that you understand him well to care or hate. He didn't want any villains to overshadow Vader.

[stvn1974]

Originally Posted by aiman04

It's very clear to me. Lucas did this on purpose. He wants to hold Darth Vader as the most badass villain in the whole saga that you understand him well to care or hate. He didn't want any villains to overshadow Vader.

So he turned Vader into a whiny ***** with the prequels?

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I hope the villains stick around for all three films so we can get to know them and kind of care about them in all their evilness.

Well, if Abrams' Star Trek villains are any indication, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Then again memorable villains has always been Star Trek's big failing outside of Khan that is. But Abrams even managed to screw him up. This isn't meant to bash Abrams. I think he'll do alright laying the ground work for the ST, but villains don't seem to be his forte.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

So he turned Vader into a whiny ***** with the prequels?

Nothing to do with that, we were discussing about the villains in the Star Wars saga. Anakin in the prequels is yet to be the full villain. That's why we have Maul, Dooku and Grievous, which were all destroyed by the time Anakin became a villain that will be the most feared in the next trilogy.

Despite the flaws and some inconsistencies between the trilogies, I think the bigger story of the saga flows very well from Episodes I to VI. I'm excited to learn what happens next.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

Don't totally buy that though as he knew Vader was his father and in the end he turned on the Emperor and the Sith. The good in him untimately saved him so I don't see Luke bing that scared of it. It is possible - he found himself doing un-Jedi like things over the years and went into hiding - but to just say that in this movie comes off as hokey to me. Without seeing the fall, it seems too fake.

Naw, man. Luke made peace with Vader as his daddy because he knew he was a good man once, but to learn afterwards that you're (essentially) a creation of the Sith would be enough to throw anyone into turmoil. Hence Luke going on some sort of spirit quest and possibly discovering Darth Plagueis in the netherworld of the Force.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by aiman04

Nothing to do with that, we were discussing about the villains in the Star Wars saga. Anakin in the prequels is yet to be the full villain. That's why we have Maul, Dooku and Grievous, which were all destroyed by the time Anakin became a villain that will be the most feared in the next trilogy.

Despite the flaws and some inconsistencies between the trilogies, I think the bigger story of the saga flows very well from Episodes I to VI. I'm excited to learn what happens next.

Lucas also intended for the disposable villains to foreshadow parts of Anakin's fall: Maul gets chopped up by Obi-Wan, Grievous is more machine than man, and Dooku is of course a lapsed Jedi.

As always with Lucas I can see what he was trying to do, he didn't want a big PT villain (hence the Phantom Menace) because he didn't want to overshadow Vader in the OT (same reason why we don't see the streaking hyperspace starfields from the cockpits in the PT, he was saving it for the OT), but the execution of those ideas made for storytelling that wasn't as exciting and propulsive as the classic trilogy.

Fingers crossed JJ gets it right. I was sceptical of Kevin Smith's recent comments when he visited the set (tubby bastard cries at just about everything these days) but after hearing him speak about it I'm just a lil' bit more excited now, because he really articulated about what it meant to be back on the Falcon and to see all these legendary characters once again.

As for JJ not being able to do villains, Phil Hoffman in MI3 was a bad mother ****er, so JJ can get 'em right when he wants to.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by stvn1974

I hope the villains stick around for all three films so we can get to know them and kind of care about them in all their evilness.

Sure thing - thats the key. Villians, much like heroes need something behind their actions, motivations, etc. We have to either like them OR hate them but it has to be something!

Totally agree on the post regarding the PT having terrible villain-development & usage. Darth Maul should have lasted until the beggining of EP3 and taken the place of Dooku altogether. Dooku is useless. Too old, too under-developed. By the time we got from EP1 to EP3, Maul would have been well-entrenched in the storyline. Instead, we get Count Chocula for a few scenes

I hope they do this "right". They have plenty of data to determine what NOT to do, thats for sure. I like the PT films overall but there is a lot of lost potential in them.

[006]

Originally Posted by MCT

Mystery is a good thing but Lucas literally told us NOTHING about the character. Obi Wan in ANH at least hinted at what made Vader so evil. Maul spoke one line and snarled then died. That is not quality character development.

Oddjob? The Shark in Jaws? Boba Fett, Heaths Joker?

I agree it would have been nice to learn more about him in say, the next few (if he didn't die). However, none of the above characters (the shark for obvious reasons ;P) had any character development and are regarded as some of cinemas greatest villains / henchmen. I'm not saying that Maul is among the greatest, but like the ones I mentioned, he was able to leave an impression on people without being told who he was. Again, we knew who he was by witnessing his actions. Even with just over 7 min of screentime, he remains one of the most popular prequel characters.

[klauswhereareyou]

Yeah Maul died, but whatever happened to Ric Olie, Captain Panaka, and that old lady who told Annie to get indoors before the sandstorm?

[Ernest Rister]

Leaked Star Wars Episode VII Filmset Footage! - YouTube

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Naw, man. Luke made peace with Vader as his daddy because he knew he was a good man once, but to learn afterwards that you're (essentially) a creation of the Sith would be enough to throw anyone into turmoil. Hence Luke going on some sort of spirit quest and possibly discovering Darth Plagueis in the netherworld of the Force.

But Luke isn't a creation of the sith, his dad is. At worse he is 1/2 sith. That would have been a better idea for Vader than here for Luke - looking for his roots, discovers he was created by the sith so he embraces his fate. The other part of that is if Luke does that, what does Leia do? Since she is his twin, she can't just sit on the sideline so either she goes through the same thing or she is at peace in which case she try to train Luke. I don't know, not really looking forward to a Luke/Leia lightsaber battle Wait and see, they might surprise me. The lack on real info leaking out really makes all this just guessing at what they might do.